Vista is still the most secure OS to date.

Status
Not open for further replies.

rocket357

Security freak
iMav said:
may be u could tell me an OS which was released a decade ago and has no update release and is still running strong :rolleyes: u wont be able to come up with 1 even in the last 3 years ... the thing is an update has to be made nothing in this world was made perfect the first time not even human ... so ur point of vulnerability after vulnerability shows who is the idiot ;)
First, I never said anything was perfect upon release. Software is created by humans, and as such it has flaws...even OpenBSD has "bugfixes", but only twice in ten years has a bug resulted in a remote exploit. Why? Because OpenBSD is written for *code accuracy* (not security...security just happens to be a side-effect of accurate code).

Second, Microsoft has released how many revisions of their OS in the past 10 years? How many required Service Packs that re-wrote 1/2 the OS? Sounds to me like someone could use a lesson in *code accuracy*.

How many chances for remote exploit has Microsoft seen in 10 years? Now that we've established that, how many has OpenBSD seen? Oh, that's right...two.

10 years? That's old history, right?

Let's say six months, then...how many for Microsoft in six months? How many for OpenBSD? One.

Vulnerability after vulnerability? Indeed.

Edit - Vista wasn't released a decade ago...A decade ago Microsoft was still pushing the 9x series and we all know how THAT went for security purposes! In 1997, Windows 95 was at the helm of the Microsoft list...and security was so good in Win95 that I could hit escape at the login prompt, append a few characters to another user's password file, and then try to login as that user. Win95 was so kind that when it realized the password file was corrupted, it would ASK ME FOR A NEW PASSWORD for a user I shouldn't have had write access to! A decade ago, OpenBSD was beginning the massive code audit that is still going to this day. I guarantee you that even though bugs existed at that stage in the code, the system was intelligent enough to resist a simple attack such as the one I just described...

Have you read an OpenBSD vulnerability report? What about a Microsoft vulnerability report?

< taken from http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/986425 > March, 2007
OpenBSD: Systems connected to public IPv6 networks are particularly at risk from this vulnerability. However, since link-local addresses are part of the IPv6 specification and configured by default on Ethernet interfaces, even systems that have not been explicitly configured to use public IPv6 networks are vulnerable to attack from other systems on the same physical network or multicast network.

That's right...to exploit this bug, someone needs to be on my network already (and using the next generation ipv6, which isn't in widespread use except for Japan and academic institutions). The patch to fix it was available after a few days, and in the mean time a single line modification to one config file was all that it took to nullify this exploit.

< taken from: http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/511577 > Feb. 2007
Microsoft: Microsoft Malware Protection Engine contains a vulnerability that could be exploited when it attempts to process specially crafted PDF files. According to Microsoft Security Bulletin MS07-010, an integer overflow vulnerability exists in the way that the Microsoft Malware Protection Engine processes Portable Document Format (PDF) files. An attacker with the ability to supply a specially crafted PDF file could exploit this vulnerability. Note that according to Microsoft the Malware Protection Engine is a coponent of the following:
  • Windows Live OneCare
  • Microsoft Antigen for Exchange 9.x
  • Microsoft Antigen for SMTP Gateway 9.x
  • Microsoft Windows Defender
  • Microsoft Windows Defender x64 Edition
  • Microsoft Windows Defender in Windows Vista
  • Microsoft Forefront Security for Exchange Server
  • Microsoft Forefront Security for SharePoint
Ok, let me get this straight...the software in the system that's designed to protect the system is vulnerable itself?! Good God almighty, what's this world coming to?

What about a fix for this bug? Oh, an update! Yay.
 
Last edited:

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
ok here we go again with the security blah blah how many times have we to discuss the same old windows is not secure mummy bachao crap ....
 

rocket357

Security freak
iMav said:
ok here we go again with the security blah blah how many times have we to discuss the same old windows is not secure mummy bachao crap ....

Is that not the claim of this entire thread? Read the title and whine some more about security issues...

If it upsets you, go read some other thread.
 

gxsaurav

You gave been GXified
rocket357 said:
Is that not the claim of this entire thread? Read the title and whine some more about security issues...

If it upsets you, go read some other thread.

Tell me something, what are you trying to prove here?

Each & every software out there has bugs. Even BSD & Linux kernel. The code audit which you talked about in case of BSD is a good thing, but I guess they never looked into the desktop segment, isn't it?

Well, if they have such a solid code, such a solid back end, then why don't we see them competing with Linux or Windows in Desktop space?

Why do u think MS & Windows dominates in Desktop space? Thats because most of the home users are not Ex-KGB or M16 Employees, & Don't give much damn to security. Virus & malware are over hyped. If you are running a good AV Software which usually comes at a discount with an OEM computer such as Dell bundling NIS 07, then you are protected by default from all the user weakness.

You are talking about the security of BSD. I ask you a few things

1) Will BSD work with my Webcam or SE K750i?

2) Will it let me play & rip my HD DVD/DVD/DivX

3) Will it run Microsoft office?

4) Will it let me use the computer my way?

Oh & plz don't say "You can use KDE in BSD". If I wanted to do that I would prefer Linux which is more supported by hardware companies in desktop space compared to BSD.

BSD is UNIX, it is good for what it is made for. Not for desktop in its current state, keeping this in mind you cannot compare BSD (A server/cluster OS) with Vista (a consumer OS).
 

kalpik

In Pursuit of "Happyness"
^^ For god's sake, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE _READ_ the thread title!!
Vista is still the most secure OS to date.
 

rocket357

Security freak
gx_saurav said:
Tell me something, what are you trying to prove here?
Honestly, if I posted that Toyota makes the finest luxury automobile on the planet, I'd get flamed, too.

gx_saurav said:
Well, if they have such a solid code, such a solid back end, then why don't we see them competing with Linux or Windows in Desktop space?
Because it takes a reasonable amount of intellectual horsepower to use BSD/Linux, and the communities surrounding them aren't keen on whiners. If you're willing to help yourself, then those communities will bend over backwards to assist...but if you come at it like a typical Windows home user, you'll get laughed at.

gx_saurav said:
Why do u think MS & Windows dominates in Desktop space? Thats because most of the home users are not Ex-KGB or M16 Employees, & Don't give much damn to security.
Therein lies the rub. But look at the title of this thread and you tell me if security is irrelevant *to the context of this discussion*. I didn't see ANYTHING in the title concerning "user security"...

gx_saurav said:
You are talking about the security of BSD. I ask you a few things

1) Will BSD work with my Webcam or SE K750i?

2) Will it let me play & rip my HD DVD/DVD/DivX

3) Will it run Microsoft office?

4) Will it let me use the computer my way?
1) depends on if the hardware manufacturer has released specs to the OpenBSD team (if it works in Linux, there's no excuse).
2) Are you reading my posts? I stated earlier that I watch movies all the time (check out the MPlayer project).
3) First, it runs OpenOffice, second, I can run CrossOver Office should I desire.
4) Hrmmm...this is quite a subjective statement, but let me make a few assumptions:

a) if your way involves avoiding the Big Scary Command Line, then it's possible if you have someone set it up for you so you can avoid it (though why would you want to?)
b) if your way involves command line usage, then you should have no problems whatsoever.

kalpik said:
^^ For god's sake, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE _READ_ the thread title!!
Vista is still the most secure OS to date.
Thank you for pointing this out...I get the distinct impression that some individuals here aren't listening to me (dunno why...it's a security debate, or at least that's what I thought)...

Edit - oh man, Kalpik, your signature's awesome...hahaha
 
Last edited:

din

Tribal Boy
1) Will BSD work with my Webcam or SE K750i?

2) Will it let me play & rip my HD DVD/DVD/DivX

3) Will it run Microsoft office?

4) Will it let me use the computer my way?

LOL, sorry again, failed to see how these are related to ...

No, not typing the same again, don't get angry :)

As iMav says, topic goes wheerever the users takes it. so NP

But I liked your 3rd question, lol that sounded kinda funny for me :D

You really meant that ? :)

@rocket357

Man, guess what ? Your post is nice. If you go through the top few threads in this section you can see very nice (oops, 'friendly' too) fight between Win / Lin / Mac guys. The Win team get a lot of time, so they post more, Lin guys post replies but not much , Mac guys very lil.

In short most threads go to win-lin-mac fight but that also not in a healthy manner.

And most threads goes very biased and one-sided, so its nice to see some posts differ from that trend.

Anyway, I am reading your post at 11.30 night and I think I didn't waste my time at all. Thank you.
 
Last edited:

rocket357

Security freak
din said:
@rocket357

Man, guess what ? Your post is nice. If you go through the top few threads in this section you can see very nice (oops, 'friendly' too) fight between Win / Lin / Mac guys. The Win team get a lot of time, so they post more, Lin guys post replies but not much , Mac guys very lil.

In short most threads go to win-lin-mac fight but that also not in a healthy manner.

And most threads goes very biased and one-sided, so its nice to see some posts differ from that trend.

Anyway, I am reading your post at 11.30 night and I think I didn't waste my time at all. Thank you.

Glad you like what you see. Now don't get me wrong...I'm a Linux guy at heart. I don't run some generic "compiled for maximum bloat" crap that you typically see in "user friendly" distros...I run a stripped down and lean gentoo install. I compile the kernel for MY hardware...not for portability or compatibility. I use FreeBSD and OpenBSD as well, though I tend to do less tweaking of those systems.

That aside, I couldn't resist when I saw the title...sorry if I've offended some people here, but honestly if I posted some blanket statement that's obviously wrong, I'd get it just as bad.

Look at the author of the study in question. He's not just an M$ guy...he's an M$ employee! Jeez, do you think this study is biased? (Reminds me of a "Get the Facts" study that was funded by M$ and was skewed to no end) Now, I believe that eliminating bias is impossible, and reducing it is difficult at best...but if I go around parading that my Gentoo system is the most secure system on the planet, I'd be wrong, too, and I'd deserve the lashing I'd get.

To those of you who've so diligently defended Microsoft...my hat's off to you...you have a tough job...heh.

And those of you who came across as mature, intelligent individuals (kumarmohit, in particular), it's been a pleasure debating with you!

Now then, where was I?

Ahh yes, OpenBSD > Vista...any takers?
 

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
mummy bachao windows is not secure ... mummy bachao ... some 1's got a problem with the claims of the source go fight with em .... coz we have done this so many times and every time the OSS/MAC hav got their arse whooped and stopped posting until some new 1 comes around

hey gx be careful man ... windows is not secure some 1 might hack into ur machine or leave a worm or something and steal ur secret reciepe for staying fit

if some 1 doesnt know how to use an OS its not the OS's fault
 

rocket357

Security freak
iMav said:
mummy bachao windows is not secure ... mummy bachao ... some 1's got a problem with the claims of the source go fight with em .... coz we have done this so many times and every time the OSS/MAC hav got their arse whooped and stopped posting until some new 1 comes around

hey gx be careful man ... windows is not secure some 1 might hack into ur machine or leave a worm or something and steal ur secret reciepe for staying fit

if some 1 doesnt know how to use an OS its not the OS's fault

Sigh...winning through sheer force of numbers is for losers. Truth, however, stands on it's own. And might I add, of all the people who have posted, you (iMav) have made the LEAST sense. If you're sick of these debates, WHY ARE YOU READING THIS POST?

My angle here is the title of the thread. It's horribly incorrect. If it had stated "Vista is still the most secure mainstream desktop OS" (which RHE technically isn't a desktop system, but that's irrelevant), then I'd have passed on without a second thought.
 

praka123

left this forum longback
You dont know how sick it is here.some M$ user will post such a blog quote from somewhere and there we started.they want to tell that Vista is the next thing to GOD.may be u can be there in Open Source better and most pragmatic and lenient people knows what you are telling is reality.but spoonfed from their earlier computer days with windows is-what I use is better ideology(or what gui am familiar is the best) much more stronger.I ended up with another topic(DRM-n vista) when i tried letting them know the reality.even another guy quoted my post from another mag forum just to defend Vista :? where i just pointed out Linux kernel *may* be not the best-but bsd may be.
if u watch tech news section,weekly some "Get the facts" like posts from the visionaries.
 

rocket357

Security freak
praka123 said:
You dont know how sick it is here.some M$ user will post such a blog quote from somewhere and there we started.they want to tell that Vista is the next thing to GOD.may be u can be there in Open Source better and most pragmatic and lenient people knows what you are telling is reality.but spoonfed from their earlier computer days with windows is-what I use is better ideology(or what gui am familiar is the best) much more stronger.I ended up with another topic(DRM-n vista) when i tried letting them know the reality.even another guy quoted my post from another mag forum just to defend Vista :? where i just pointed out Linux kernel *may* be not the best-but bsd may be.
if u watch tech news section,weekly some "Get the facts" like posts from the visionaries.

Yeah, I saw that rant a few of the Windoze kiddies had about your DRM jaunt. Sad part is, a topic that comes up repeatedly is how Windows allows users to "use their computers how they want", but what they don't realize is that Microsoft is placing DRM there as a method of control. Quite a few hardware vendors have started implementing hardware DRM, and as soon as M$ patches Windows to make use of this hardware DRM, it's "bye bye movie-time".

It's a sad story, but it's true. (Even moreso if you've EVER had a DRM-related failure, so a movie or game you bought legally STILL won't work!) Doh?
 

sakumar79

Technomancer
@imav, the question is not whether Vista is secure or not... We all know that Vista is a very secure OS so far... But the topic posted says Vista is the most secure OS to date... That is not correct...

Arun
 

rocket357

Security freak
sakumar79 said:
@imav, the question is not whether Vista is secure or not... We all know that Vista is a very secure OS so far... But the topic posted says Vista is the most secure OS to date... That is not correct...

Arun
Ahh, someone sees my point...

I won't argue against Vista being more secure than any previous versions of Windows, or Mac OSX, or even my beloved Linux (in it's newb-friendly/eye-candy form, at least). Vista has address layout randomization (well, the corporate/ultimate/whatever does...you have to pay $400 to get that kind of security, but it's there)...guaranteed that technology has been around since 2001 (IBM ProPolice), and was rolled into the GNU C Compiler in April of 2004 (the compiler used mainly on GNU/Linux systems, in case anyone is wondering), but it's there...and that's a step in the right direction =)

Sigh...my work here is done!

Edit - I'd still like to see the same test run against PAX/RSBAC Gentoo, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, and Vista...just for comparison's sake...
 

Zeeshan Quireshi

C# Be Sharp !
rocket357 said:
1) depends on if the hardware manufacturer has released specs
which most hardware vendors don't give a damn about , so most "new" user products don't work on Linux/Unix/BSD.

rocket357 said:
2) Are you reading my posts? I stated earlier that I watch movies all the time (check out the MPlayer project).
Seriously , are you trying to Compare Windows Media Player 11 to MPlayer . MPlayer is good , but WMP 11 is a lot more than a media player and has excellent media management capabilities . And with the K-Lite Codec Pack installed , MPlayer is no way near WMP 11 .

praka123 said:
Vista is the next thing to GOD
see , you're telling my feelings .

I too do not say that Vista is next to GOD but when some jerk comes on and starts saying
"Vista is Crap {Put your OS Here} is the best ..." then it gets my nerves :)

Every software has it's advantages and flaws and everyone is free to use whatever they like , but just don't rant .

@Rocket357 , if MS didn't implement DRM in Windows Media Center Edition , then CAS users wouldn't be able to watch TV using their PC which would kill the whole concept of their Product , thus to make their product support as many platforms(TV) as possible , they implemented the respective DRM techniwues as were being used by Various TV operators :)
 

mediator

Technomancer
@Zeeshan: MS-fanboyism has taken a toll on ur mind or wat?
which most hardware vendors don't give a damn about , so most "new" user products don't work on Linux/Unix/BSD.
This thread isn't abt the hardware vendors giving driver support, neither there is a popularity contest and OS hasn't been classified by the MS mercenary that created the source of this thread!! Can't u read simple English?

Seriously , are you trying to Compare Windows Media Player 11 to MPlayer . MPlayer is good , but WMP 11 is a lot more than a media player and has excellent media management capabilities . And with the K-Lite Codec Pack installed , MPlayer is no way near WMP 11 .
Seriously, did u read the post of ur fellow musketeer from ur grp the "3musketeer" before starting comparisons again? I know how great WMP is that it cant even play ISO files click and play like Mplayer does by default!!

Every software has it's advantages and flaws and everyone is free to use whatever they like , but just don't rant
I guess u shud tell this to the fellow who created the source and advice MS which has spreadng FUD as its hobby!!
 

Zeeshan Quireshi

C# Be Sharp !
Man , the reply wasn't even to your post , Rocket357 replied that BSD will support devices if hardware vendors release it's specifications to BSD team . and as most user-product hardware vendors don't take *NIX as serious business area so they won't support it initially(then OS drivers will be made by reverse engineering and the likes and then the hardware will be supported).

mediator said:
Seriously, did u read the post of ur fellow musketeer from ur grp the "3musketeer" before starting comparisons again? I know how great WMP is that it cant even play ISO files click and play like Mplayer does by default!!
Yes , it does not play ISO files coz it's meant to play Media files and ISO files r specialized data files that contain media files , so u can mount an ISO file and en play it normally using WMP .

and for your sake , just compare the UI of WMP to MPlayer and you'll know what i mean(or should i provide screenshots).

Going by your way , even i can say GNU Linux cannot play games , so do i have to bring this up each and every time in a thread ?
 

Avatar

The other one
rocket357 said:
Yeah, I saw that rant a few of the Windoze kiddies had about your DRM jaunt. Sad part is, a topic that comes up repeatedly is how Windows allows users to "use their computers how they want", but what they don't realize is that Microsoft is placing DRM there as a method of control.

Hail to the super uber elite dude from a windoze kiddie ,

I was just reading your posts till you joined prakash with the DRM BS , if you have read the previous posts then it is clear that DRM is not a technology which can ever be liked by a user. But the thing is there and i like that the OS provides me with the feature of playing the protected content as well as the normal unprotected one. When someone chooses his/her OS they know what they are opting for and I choose vista with DRM knowing the fact that i have not and never will buy any protected content. But those which intend to buy the feature is supported. Also suggest a alternate for DRM so companies can protect their intellectual property without annoying the end user.


I don't run some generic "compiled for maximum bloat" crap that you typically see in "user friendly" distros...I run a stripped down and lean gentoo install. I compile the kernel for MY hardware...not for portability or compatibility.

Some people like to go more user friendly bloat way. Do you milk your doodwala's cow when you need milk ? i guess not because you are not doodhwala(i hope). Similarly not everyone is computer user like you and they use 'user friendly' distros or windows to get their work done and i hope you have respect for them unlike many users in this forum who think windows users are necessarily inferior.

on topic , lets hope a comparision comes from a source which everyone agrees to be non biased. Wait till then.
 

gxsaurav

You gave been GXified
mediator said:
Seriously, did u read the post of ur fellow musketeer from ur grp the "3musketeer" before starting comparisons again? I know how great WMP is that it cant even play ISO files click and play like Mplayer does by default!!

My Fellow ignorant forum member, mind telling us here whether ISO is one of the most widely used Media format out there or not.? Mind telling us how u ge ISO files (piracy)? Mind telling us, how mplayer plays ISO files without mounting :D

Oh, well....it doesn't, mplayer does something which in WMP the user has to do manually. Mount the ISO. Sorry, Windows Media Player cannot support a piracy format to play video like this.
 

Avatar

The other one
gx_saurav said:
My Fellow ignorant forum member, mind telling us here whether ISO is one of the most widely used Media format out there or not.? Mind telling us how u ge ISO files (piracy)? Mind telling us, how mplayer plays ISO files without mounting :D

Oh, well....it doesn't, mplayer does something which in WMP the user has to do manually. Mount the ISO. Sorry, Windows Media Player cannot support a piracy format to play video like this.


playing iso is not necesarily playing pirated content .
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom