UNIX Wars - Which is better and why

[mediator]

That's why i noted that BSD is Derived from the Original Unix Source but it's not Unix just because the Berkeley people haven't paid the OpenGroup huge amounts of money to be Unix Certified .

I know it didn't take 25 years . I meant that UC berkeley had actively developed BSD for 25 years(uptil 1994) and files patents continuously in these years .

I dunno about money matters (gimme some links to pass some time), but still it is not 'Unix-like'. Read this small passage and then google for 'unix-variants'.

 

[infra_red_dude]

What Zeeshan is true but it doesn't apply to BSD and direct derivatives. This is coz the original UNIX was split into System V and 4.xBSD. While System V direct derivative is not longer existent today (and hence no "pure UNIX" today but only UNIX-system like and UNIX-varients), BSD is still available in the form of openbsd, freebsd etc. Hence, even without paying the opengroup anything BSD still enjoys the UNIX status coz it was one of the original "UNIX distro".

What you said applies to OS like Mac OS etc. If SUN pays the opengroup then OpenSolaris can be called as a UNIX-varient. But now its only a UNIX-System Like OS (same case with GNU/Linux distros).

 

[mediator]

Can u give some links about opensolaris being unix-like until and unless a moderate fee is paid?

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

What Zeeshan is true but it doesn't apply to BSD and direct derivatives. This is coz the original UNIX was split into System V and 4.xBSD. While System V direct derivative is not longer existent today (and hence no "pure UNIX" today but only UNIX-system like and UNIX-varients), BSD is still available in the form of openbsd, freebsd etc. Hence, even without paying the opengroup anything BSD still enjoys the UNIX status coz it was one of the original "UNIX distro".

What you said applies to OS like Mac OS etc. If SUN pays the opengroup then OpenSolaris can be called as a UNIX-varient. But now its only a UNIX-System Like OS (same case with GNU/Linux distros).

Yup that's what i meant that BSD is a fork of the Original Unix but it cannot label itself as UNIX(although it is) because the UNIX trademark is now owned by the OpenGroup *www.opengroup.org/ and to label a product as UNIX you have to get it certified from The OpenGroup and pay heavy licensing fees which products like FreeBSD , netBSD and other BSD Derivatives cannot do .

Whereas apple got Max OS X Leopard UNIX Certified from The OpenGroup and it can label it's product as UNIX(even if it might be derivied from BSD)

@Mediator , same reason for OpenSolaris , it cannot call itself UNIX due to trademark restrictions .

 

[mediator]

^^I'm not referring to about "calling itself unix". I understand what 'unix certifiied' OS is. What we r talkin about is unix-variants. So if somehow canonical pays for that license, will ubuntu be called 'unix variant'?........or 'unix certified'? Is the source code derived from the original Unix that was developed at AT n T so as to be called a 'variant' remotely? Why is linux called unix-"like"? For what reason was linux created?

Lets stick to the true technical definition of unix-variant and not commercial/official meaning of it which I guess is corrupting the concepts and adding to the confusion!

I just tried to refresh my concepts after around 3 years and alas there I see so much damage being done on the net where linux is being called unix-variant on many new sites and some wiki pages etc!

 

[praka123]

^yes!thats sad!infact Linux is UNIX-like OS!there are no codes taken from Original unix apart from some ideas!

I donno why,but i feel opensolaris is going to be a big hit if they completed project indiana;i read in few intl forums that when opensolaris gets the debian like package management with Ian Murdock be the project leader,OpenSolaris can win many Linux aspirants!even Solaris servers are good for its stability!.even better,if OpenSOlaris kernel goes GPL3,Linux is finished! I mean,many developers will be moving to Open Solaris.

I liked FreeBSD for its stability,but it is definitely not a desktop Operating system;even with variants like pc-bsd

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

yup FreeBSD for servers and Ubuntu for Desktops i'd say .

@Mediator , mate that's what i meant too .

That BSD is a Unix-Variant whereas Linux is a Unix-Like OS .

I referred to both of them as Unix-Like just for the sake of simplicity and to highlight the fact that both of them provide almost the same functionality to the user .

 

[infra_red_dude]

^^^ Confusion arised coz of the thread title. Mebbe it shud've read: UNIX/-Like/-Varient Wars!

 

[mediator]

yup FreeBSD for servers and Ubuntu for Desktops i'd say .

@Mediator , mate that's what i meant too .

That BSD is a Unix-Variant whereas Linux is a Unix-Like OS .

I referred to both of them as Unix-Like just for the sake of simplicity and to highlight the fact that both of them provide almost the same functionality to the user .

I was just pointing out to ur statement in post #17

Both Linux and BSD are UNIX-Like OS'es .

But neways, I see in many forums that many people are calling linux as unix-variant. People read this false stuff and then keep telling others. I hope u understand.

Njoy this one!

@infra : I guess "*nix wars" wud be appropriate?

I dunno about MacOsX's history, may be some one can gimme a nice link and if MacOSX is truly Unix or even a variant??

 

[infra_red_dude]

But neways, I see in many forums that many people are calling linux as unix-variant. People read this false stuff and then keep telling others. I hope u understand.

Yes, its wrong to call Linux as a UNIX-varient; rather it would be just like saying that Linux code is copied from UNIX!!!! Linux was/is and will always be a UNIX-like OS not a UNIX-varient.

@infra : I guess "*nix wars" wud be appropriate?

Perfect! Guess I tend to take the longer route always!

I dunno about MacOsX's history, may be some one can gimme a nice link and if MacOSX is truly Unix or even a variant??

Mac OS X uses the Darwin kernel; which is a BSD based kernel. Actually, it is a BSD kernel with most of the restrictions removed so that normal user has a lot of flexibility. They implemented suid which can be thot of somewhere between the UNIX and Windows permission system. It will not lock you like UNIX-like systems where for every admin task (installing new devices etc.) requires admin rights which it also not liberal like Windows which allows anyone to modify system files.

Other than that not much of a change. Just a few tweaks to make it comptible with the Aqua UI and the Quartz compositor. In fact, Darwin can be used with GNOME/KDE etc. just like any Linux distro.

I'd say 95% BSD code has been retained (most of the scheduling/network stack and imp. stuff has been retained) - no doubt, coz it sports a very superior arch.

Head here for more info on GNU/Darwin: *www.gnu-darwin.org/ (This is not endorsed by apple, btw).

EDIT:

Njoy this one!

Haha... nice one there.. The people there are the dumbest fools I've ever seen!!! Everyone pretending to know the correct difference! I see only one or two sane people clarifying things.

See this:

Aside from the spelling and what darkfate has mentioned, Linux is the GUI version of Unix.. Sort off

I feel like nominating this guy for being the dumbest admin!

 

[mediator]

Thanx man! Will do some full-fledged research some day! and yeah that link is phun...hehe!!

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

@mediator , i called both Linux and BSD Unix-Like OS'es .

Well BSD is a unix-variant so it can fit into the general category of UNIX-Like OS'es(that is OS'es that functino like UNIX , although BSD is a Unix-Variant but i think it's acceptable to call it Unix-Like just for the sake of comparison) .

I did not call Linux a Unix-Variant , instead i called BSD a Unix-Like OS .

 

[axxo]

+1 for Solaris

 

[mediator]

@mediator , i called both Linux and BSD Unix-Like OS'es .

Well BSD is a unix-variant so it can fit into the general category of UNIX-Like OS'es(that is OS'es that functino like UNIX , although BSD is a Unix-Variant but i think it's acceptable to call it Unix-Like just for the sake of comparison) .

I did not call Linux a Unix-Variant , instead i called BSD a Unix-Like OS .

Thats ok man, I'm not fighting but just being clear.
Many times linux is also called unix etc for the sake of simplicity. But is it really simplicity? IMO, it adds much more to the confusion.

Can u call VISTA => windows like or any distro of linux => linux like? What r Netbsd, freebsd, openbsd......BSd variants or BSD like systems?

I'm not accusing that u called "Linux a Unix-variant", but simply pointing out to the fact that how much corruption is being done to the minds of the innocent noobies! As pointed out by @IRD, even the 'admin' and fellow moderators crack jokes to brighten our mood in that link I gave!! Can u call Unix=linux+GUI? You see the damage has been done to the highest topology of the forums!

Besides if u need to compare, then u oughta be precise! Isn't it?

Today I wasn't feeling like going out (slob), so I read sumwhere that Windows NT 4 is POSIX complaint. But is windows NT, a Unix?

I wont go for official definitions as I guess patents, laws and all kinda crap is really doing a global e-damage and concepts going kapoot. So I was just pointing out to the technical concept. The rest is ur own wish....

 

[MetalheadGautham]

anybody here who actually USED solaris? Not the OpenSolaris, but the SunSolaris that comes with Sun UltraSPARC Machines ?

 

[mediator]

^^ASk Yamaraj. He uses solaris!

 

[MetalheadGautham]

^^ASk Yamaraj. He uses solaris!

one rare kind. Is it in a UltraSPARC machine or an OpenSPARC machine ? If Dark Lord thinks Mac Pro users are godly, then I think UltraSPARC guys are even more godly. I heard those workstations are really blazing fast and super effitient.

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

one rare kind. Is it in a UltraSPARC machine or an OpenSPARC machine ? If Dark Lord thinks Mac Pro users are godly, then I think UltraSPARC guys are even more godly. I heard those workstations are really blazing fast and super effitient.

My School's Server is a very very old SPARC machine and it still handles the load very efficiently , about 40-50 clients at the same time .

 

[MetalheadGautham]

My School's Server is a very very old SPARC machine and it still handles the load very efficiently , about 40-50 clients at the same time .

wow ! I just got my hands on Solaris 10. Do you think its worth installing ?
And whats the cost of SPARC Processors in India ?
Is it true that OpenSPARC, the only OSS Processor, is Dirt Cheap in the market due to being OSS ?

 

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

wow ! I just got my hands on Solaris 10. Do you think its worth installing ?
And whats the cost of SPARC Processors in India ?
Is it true that OpenSPARC, the only OSS Processor, is Dirt Cheap in the market due to being OSS ?

Mate OpenSPARC is only the implementation part of the UltraSPARC T2 processor that has been made OSS , otherwise it's the same as UltraSPARC .

I don't think any OpenSPARC(custom modified UltraSPARC T2) is available in the market . Only the UltraSPARC processors from SUN are available and some from Fujitsu i suppose .

@metal , my school server is an old SPARC , it's not even an UltraSPARC .