Piracy worked for us, Romania president tells Gates

[anandk]

Pirated Microsoft Corp software helped Romania to build a vibrant technology industry, Romanian President Traian Basescu told the company's co-founder Bill Gates on Thursday.

"Piracy helped the young generation discover computers. It set off the development of the IT industry in Romania" Basescu said during a joint news conference with Gates.

Foreign investors say Romania's IT sector is one of most promising industries in the fast-growing economy thanks to high level of technical education in Romania, low wages and the country's thriving underworld of computers hackers.

*www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=37809

 

[Pathik]

same as india

 

[tarey_g]

Its the truth , but the President crossed the line saying it before media in presence of a software company head. The president post has its limitations, he should not act like you or me, any person on that honourable post should talk responsibly.

 

[thunderbird.117]

I hope Microsoft will forgive them. I see terrible things coming to romania.

 

[thunderbird.117]

Romania-
M$-

To be frank. MS is not evil. I learned lot of things from them. Try going to technet you will learn a lot. I learned half of the programming from their. It is very clear to understand. I do not need teacher or go to class to learn programming and other things.

The only thing i do not like only ms. They way the implement drm in OS. Software Privacy started from the days of floppy and they no one went to loss. They gained a lot of money. Fighting against piracy is hopeless. No advertisement or other anti-cp will work.

 

[tarey_g]

^^ They will do nothing twisted , bill gates didn't become the richest guy by doing such things . Big corps think business not revenge. Romania is a big market for them.

 

[praka123]

but romania' s president dont know about the better free alternatives-Linux and Open Source/Free Softwares

 

[anandk]

Romania, Pakistan, Yugoslavia, Nigeria and Indonesia have the highest internet frauds rates. *www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4648378/

 

[Aberforth]

^^ They will do nothing twisted , bill gates didn't become the richest guy by doing such things . Big corps think business not revenge. Romania is a big market for them.

Markets are made on purchasing power, not potential customers (pirates). Thats what some failed and broke MNCs in India have realised who rushed in after liberalization of economy expecting big profits but the little purchasing power and poor salaries of Indians proved a hamper.

Same with Romania toay, after decades of over population, natural disasters, poverty, socialist regime, low salaries and bad policies of toppled Nicolae Ceausescu, it would be naive to expect a Market for Windows and other costly MS products. The price Windows Vista Ultimate compares to the 6 months average salary of average Romanians.

but romania' s president dont know about the better free alternatives-Linux and Open Source/Free Softwares

Implementation of Open Source isn't easy, learning computers from scratch using Linux is quite a pain. Linux has complex solutions to simple problems which either don't exist or take a snap in Windows and Mac.

Romania, Pakistan, Yugoslavia, Nigeria and Indonesia have the highest internet frauds rates. *www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4648378/

No surprise here. Before it joined EU Romanian servers (incl. Chinese, Swedish and Russian) were launch pad for black hat hackers, pirates and cyber mafia.

 

[tarey_g]

Markets are made on purchasing power, not potential customers (pirates).

Absolutely wrong , pirates of today are potential customers of tommorow. Thos who can not pay for the software now may be in future will pay for it, students who learn from these software will like to work on this software in future. So organizations with such students turned programmers/artists are obviously gonna inplement the same environment in their org's to which most of the population is habitual to . In India itself we have many pirates turned legit buyers, most ppl pirate because they can't buy. No wise business company will want potential customers to hunt for alternatives to their product and become habitual to a rival software.

 

[Aberforth]

If you price the software beyond the affordability of pirates than there is less chance of them converting to a customer. Once the piracy of software gets a habit, the same customers will be reluctant to pay for it when they can as it comes 'free', so why pay. Piracy would survive in developing and poor countries as it is in the companies' interests, in fact, not the other way round as they would help us believe.

 

[eddie]

^^ You've never seen Cocaine or other drug addicts? Never heard of the ways the drugs peddlers work? First they give their stuff for free...once you are hooked...they charge. If you are too poor to afford it...you sell blood to buy it. Now think about it in terms of software and you'll understand

 

[mediator]

Implementation of Open Source isn't easy, learning computers from scratch using Linux is quite a pain.

Read this => "Kids say thankyou to Ubuntu Team

The machines are 600mhz/128mb/4.2gig and they took about 3/4's of an hour to install and configure perfectly, and have cost the centre nothing!

The kids absolutely love them, most are from underpriviledged backgrounds and many of them have never used a computer before. As a result they will grow up computer literate.

Linux has complex solutions to simple problems which either don't exist or take a snap in Windows and Mac.

Like? May be thats why they r used in servers, routers and even to perform real time operations in space shuttles and military hardware etc etc??

If you price the software beyond the affordability of pirates than there is less chance of them converting to a customer. Once the piracy of software gets a habit, the same customers will be reluctant to pay for it when they can as it comes 'free', so why pay. Piracy would survive in developing and poor countries as it is in the companies' interests, in fact, not the other way round as they would help us believe.

U pay to get the support n services 24/7 n thats ofcors if u really like the software!

 

[praka123]

^^ I completely agree with mediator.
i have a question,while using pc,we are saying ease of use.OK Linux or Windows may be having dat stuff.but isn't a computer something more than your TV or Music/Home theatre when discussing?it is common logic that computers are used for different useful purposes and the Computer user should be supposed to know something about his pc rather than thinking it as a multimedia entertainment centre.Linux and BSD's or MACs or any *NIXens afaik are offering you the same also.you know what your machine is by configuring and tweaking different options available in your pC.
rather than decorating ur desktop and playing media files(is available in most UNIX)Linux gives you how your hardware is configured and by the time you used to it in a week or so you may be proficient in using CLI-the door to understand your Operating System.without @ albeit a small learning curve,how do ya ppl feel,its jus like another gizmo>your PC

 

[Aberforth]

^^ You've never seen Cocaine or other drug addicts? Never heard of the ways the drugs peddlers work? First they give their stuff for free...once you are hooked...they charge. If you are too poor to afford it...you sell blood to buy it. Now think about it in terms of software and you'll understand

The psychology of addiction is different from customer choices. Addicts usually don't have alternatives and are physically dependent on drugs while a software customer isn't. For example if Clinic Plus shampoo is priced at Rs.1000 tomorrow customers wouldn't pay their blood to get hold of it, they'd just switch to another brand.

*www.edubuntu.org/news/7

Using a companies own source to give credibility is a poor choice. It is as good as Microsoft 'third party' claims about how Windows Server is more stable than Linux, we know its just a staged situation.

Like? May be thats why they r used in servers, routers and even to perform real time operations in space shuttles and military hardware etc etc??

Old and same argument which never helps a person convert to Linux. From a non-geek's point of view it doesn't matter even if CIA uses Linux as their requirement (stability, security) is different from ours. In web servers and high demand systems scaled down versions of Linux are used with settings which are planets away from desktops and laptops which are multipurpose, good looking, easy to use machines. A space shuttle or medical sensor doesn't need to download wallpapers and play encrypted DVDs but I do. All these stuff are easier in Windows because

1> A lot of applications are available and you don't have to go through countless manuals and hoops to install them.
2> Mp3s, DVDs play out of the box without cryptic messages why it couldn't playback...
3> I don't have to download 30 MB of dependencies to install a 5 MB software which is often a pain in my average speed connection
4> Almost every average person can troubleshoot windows or help us find out whats wrong, forget Microsoft support - tech supports are a pain anyway.

There are hundreds of other pointers which still keep Linux out of usability of home or pleasure users of computers.

As much as I hate to think, Linux and other free alternatives haven't been as easy for a normal home or pleasure user as OS X or Windows. Thats one of the roadblock for a person to convert - I have been out there and have experienced it. I use both Linux and Windows and I have both as it know the advantages and drawbacks of both which is why I don't go promoting one.

 

[mediator]

Implementation of Open Source isn't easy, learning computers from scratch using Linux is quite a pain.

Using a companies own source to give credibility is a poor choice. It is as good as Microsoft 'third party' claims about how Windows Server is more stable than Linux, we know its just a staged situation.

So what? If someone writes a good testimonial abt a company then ofcors it will be published in company's sources. Isn't it? And if kids can learn Ubuntu easily, then IMHO elders shud have no problem!

Its all about what u used first and what r u accustomed to. But if u have to install service packs to "actually" use the O.S flawlessly then I guess that O.S really defines the threshold of pain.

Linux has complex solutions to simple problems which either don't exist or take a snap in Windows and Mac.

Old and same argument which never helps a person convert to Linux. From a non-geek's point of view it doesn't matter even if CIA uses Linux as their requirement (stability, security) is different from ours.

Please check first what u talked about! Requirement is a different area. Likewise I can give arguments how windows has "complex solutions" to simple problems.

In web servers and high demand systems scaled down versions of Linux are used with settings which are planets away from desktops and laptops which are multipurpose, good looking, easy to use machines.

Who told u that?

A space shuttle or medical sensor doesn't need to download wallpapers and play encrypted DVDs but I do.

I know that. What r u trying to prove then? Atleast these space shuttles have real time O.S that can be Unix/linux/BSD etc. Can u tell how popular r windows realtime O.S r with such technological fields?

All these stuff are easier in Windows because

1> A lot of applications are available and you don't have to go through countless manuals and hoops to install them.
2> Mp3s, DVDs play out of the box without cryptic messages why it couldn't playback...
3> I don't have to download 30 MB of dependencies to install a 5 MB software which is often a pain in my average speed connection
4> Almost every average person can troubleshoot windows or help us find out whats wrong, forget Microsoft support - tech supports are a pain anyway.

Same old argument from someone who lacks experience with linux. I told earlier too that I gave replies to such points in Win Vs linux debate. Neways, tell me when did u first used windows? Were u able to do simple tasks like installing all by urself? Were u able to install windows urself? Did u know the difference between partition and hardisk at that time? There r many questions like that. And for majority of people its answer is NO. So talking similarly about linux and expecting a YES is quite absurd. (Absurd is not an offensive term)

Neways,
1>And where do u need to have manuals today for linuxes? Aren't rpms and debs same like windows setup files. Not to forget the commandline installations that can ease ur task in one go, or the synaptic manager specially for noobies like u! Does windows give u the freedom like that to choose what u need? Everything that is popular and the best is there in repositories today and for windows u have to read online what is good and what is best and then download it, buy it, install it and may even crack it to actually use it.

2>Tell me when u first installed windows without any spare parts i.e service packs, were u abt to watch DVDs? It wud be miracle if u say yes. I dunno why cryptic messeges bother u so much. After all if u r used to reformats,reinstallations, BSODs, crashes, warnings...etc, then this should be a molecule of a piece of cake for u to swallow.

And if u r familiar with programming then u wud have never talked about such things like cryptic messeges which form an integral part of error handling and shud be there. Atleast it doesn't have have 1000s of BSODs like windows

3> And u can download n install 50 MB of norton, 10 MB of winzip and winrar, 20 MB of winamp, 100s of MB on windows updates , spend money to install office, install drivers separately for all the hardware one by one ejecting the cd tray after every driver installation. And all this isn't a pain for u on ur "average speed connection"?

4>This is where Linux teaches u the definition of the term "freedom".

As much as I hate to think, Linux and other free alternatives haven't been as easy for a normal home or pleasure user as OS X or Windows. Thats one of the roadblock for a person to convert - I have been out there and have experienced it. I use both Linux and Windows and I have both as it know the advantages and drawbacks of both which is why I don't go promoting one.

AS said before, it all depends with which OS u r used to. I can never compare A Mac with windows unless and untill I have some years of experience with it. If u compare them without having a nice experience then only thing u r left to say is "Oh, I didn't know about that!".

I have a great experience with linux and the only roadblock I know is "gaming"! Thats why I say that even my brother who is a harcore gamer and used to say that linux is this n that, has really started to experiment with linux now. He does most of the end-users tasks on linux now, but switches to windows for gaming only. IMHO non-gamers shud have no problem in switching to linux now!

Neways lets not deviate it to Linux Vs windows discussion!

 

[Aberforth]

So what? If someone writes a good testimonial abt a company then ofcors it will be published in company's sources. Isn't it? And if kids can learn Ubuntu easily, then IMHO elders shud have no problem!

Fact is kids are more receptive than elders, the more you grow up from the age 21 the lower your receptin power goes thats a fact you'll realise once you go ahead in years.

Second company sources aren't 100% truth, usually the criticism is hidden. Just like if you want to know Linux vs Windows, it'd be a bad idea to go one track to check MS site.

Its all about what u used first and what r u accustomed to. But if u have to install service packs to "actually" use the O.S flawlessly then I guess that O.S really defines the threshold of pain.

Most new OEM PCs and Windows XP CDs have SP2 integrated so all you need to do is use it our of the box. To use Linux flawlessly we need MP3 codecs, DVD codecs, modified XINE engine. From the security patches and update front Linux isn't immune to it. Installing and updating softwares is quite a pain and there is no running away from it.

Who told u that?

I don't know why someone has to tell me that as I have been running a VPS server using RHEL for 2 years. Thats a fact, a server is a command line, scaled down version of Linux. You can install GUI, VLC Player etc - but they wouldn't do any good except eating up your RAM, CPU and diskspace while you need them all in a laptop, you couldn't watch DVDs using Apache and MySQL.

Can u tell how popular r windows realtime O.S r with such technological fields?

Chances are, you learned computers from Windows and then moved on to Linux. Windows can't offer the same utility to a satellite because of course vulnerabilities and stability issues. By the way the London Stock Exchange one of the world largest and busiest runs on Windows Server 2003 and IIS 6.0, check that out in a 'third party' Microsoft site.

Same old argument from someone who lacks experience with linux.

Excuse me, I lack experience with Linux? Does handling 5 websites on Apache server using Linux for two years count as inexperience? Is that how you debate, by making a sort of "You are ignorant so listen to what I say" comment?

Aren't rpms and debs same like windows setup files.

RPMs aren't available for all softwares I need. For example, the latest version of Firefox, the latest ALSA drivers (without which my laptop sound doesnt work). Plus a lot of 5 MB or less RPMS need a hell of of dependencies to install which you have to search an hour to find them.

Atleast it doesn't have have 1000s of BSODs like windows

Thats exaggeration. If you run Windows XP SP2 chances of BSODs are so little you'd probably die before 1000 of them occured. At least a software install doesn't break my Windows that I have to reinstall it all over again.

And u can download n install 50 MB of norton, 10 MB of winzip and winrar, 20 MB of winamp, 100s of MB on windows updates , spend money to install office, install drivers separately for all the hardware one by one ejecting the cd tray after every driver installation. And all this isn't a pain for u on ur "average speed connection"?

Lets see...8 reinstalls of OpenSUSE (forget about 15 of FC5), 15 timeouts trying to add a repository in Yast last time, an hour adding a list (OSS Repo), another hour downloading the codec and libdvdcss to enable it to play DVD and Mp3 (bare essential), another 3 hours to update openSUSE, recompiling and installing ALSA to get my sound working, not being able to play the games I want..... OpenSUSE is great after it all got working but I had to waste a week to reach that stage. If I were a first time Linux users, I'd have hated it for life....like some of my Windows friends do.

This is where Linux teaches u the definition of the term "freedom".

You mean tied up to your PC for a week to get it to work and do basic stuff is freedom? A person doesn't need Linux to learn the definition of freedom, do you mean to say before tha advent of Linux people were slaves all along?


I am a Linux user too, I have OpenSUSE running but fact is fact. You can't go calling every Windows user nooby or MS 'fanboy' and expect them to hit forma t C:. Linux is still way to go to invade everyone's desktop, not just because of marketing of MS but the ease of using Windows in a desktop or laptop for a non-geek. I have seen the other side promoting Linux to my friends and trying a full switch on my laptop, both didn't work. I still have Windows MCE and OpenSUSE side by side and my friends removed this a"waste of 10 GB" from their HDD. Try out with your friends who aren't from a CS, Engg. or software background.

 

[Chrono Cr@cker]

LOL! Nice one there.. The fact is that most of the developing countries can't afford original software, especially those ridiculously priced like MS Office. [Openoffice rocks btw]. This holds true in most of the devp countries - India, China, Brazil, etc.

~ CC

 

[eddie]

The psychology of addiction is different from customer choices. Addicts usually don't have alternatives and are physically dependent on drugs while a software customer isn't.

A technical person sitting on D.G.M.'s post in a telecom company once asked me whether Linux had "Windows like environment". When I asked him, you mean GUI? He agreed and had no idea what Linux is. If you still want to argue that "Operating System" customers have choices, the know about, then I just have my stunned silence for you

For example if Clinic Plus shampoo is priced at Rs.1000 tomorrow customers wouldn't pay their blood to get hold of it, they'd just switch to another brand.

Comparing an OS for a PC to Shampoo in a person's life is less than smart imho. If you would have compared it to Air we breathe, then I could have understood but OS is not as trivial as shampoo. Think about it. If tomorrow somehow all Air is sucked out and sold in cylinders at a price. Then what would happen? I give you two choices, either pay huge amount for the Air you are used to breathe (Windows) or I will give you free air but with a funny smell and weird colour (Linux). What will happen now? Don't you think lots of customers will be there buying Air in cylinders...not because it has extra powers but because people are used to it and they don't want to move to the funny smelling one?

As far as Linux vs Windows in usability is concerned. Well I can accompany Mediator and reply to every point you give, but as I am one of the people who are in "very good books" of Mods, I wouldn't risk getting banned

 

[Aberforth]

If you still want to argue that "Operating System" customers have choices, the know about, then I just have my stunned silence for you

When you install one of the most popular distro on a person's computer and have him calling you to remove it at once from his computer, well you get the picture. Its a matter of choice, why bother a new OS which needs a lot of work getting to...when the existing one is easier and most of the things a normal user needs comes out of the box.

Don't you think lots of customers will be there buying Air in cylinders...not because it has extra powers but because people are used to it and they don't want to move to the funny smelling one?

No I don't agree. People would get used to that 'funny' smell and still get air for free. You know, its human psychology, we don't want to pay for things which we need most. The selling of air using cylinders as a choice for different smell would be a failure.


Do you know why Macs are so popular with girls? Because of usability (not looks as some would think, Macs aren't that good looking). Being different 'smell' did not make Macs get the boot...the same way it is for Windows. It is not 'getting used to' factor which matters but the usability o ease of use which matters. In time, Linux would manage that, the stability of UNIX with an easy to use interface - that would be the time it sheds it's 'geeky' image and hit average Joe's desktop. Think like an average Joe when making a software, not like a software engineer (unless you target market is engineers).

Comparing an OS for a PC to Shampoo in a person's life is less than smart imho.

Is it? So an OS in a computer is as important to a person's life as is air? That would be an argument if you are a geek, imho.