Online Overclocking competition with exciting prizes to be won !!
- Thread starter darklord
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darklord
Cyborg Agent
1) Clock speed has been locked because people who have better cooling will manage to OC more and hence the level playing aspect is lost,making the competition unfair.
2)Super Pi works but its shaky in Vista from what i know.You need to disable audio for it to run without errors.I dont use vista so i dont know for sure.
3) As for category C, well not all E2140/E2160 clock easily and achieving 3GHz stable for 8M to complete,is going to be tough.Also the competition targets 45nm and 65nm chips with 2MB+ cache as there is vast scope for improving the scores.No one really used E2xxx CPUs for Pi benching but that shouldnt dishearten our friends with E2xxx CPUs, hence the special category.
2)Super Pi works but its shaky in Vista from what i know.You need to disable audio for it to run without errors.I dont use vista so i dont know for sure.
3) As for category C, well not all E2140/E2160 clock easily and achieving 3GHz stable for 8M to complete,is going to be tough.Also the competition targets 45nm and 65nm chips with 2MB+ cache as there is vast scope for improving the scores.No one really used E2xxx CPUs for Pi benching but that shouldnt dishearten our friends with E2xxx CPUs, hence the special category.
DigitalDude
PhotonAttack
hahahahaha
I sold my P3 last year september and I thought I was the one having it longest for personal use
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axxo
99.9% Idle
@darklord agree on ur clock speed lock that better coolers will yield better results. same will be applicable to other parts of hardware also..say I have single channel memory..and somw wouldve dual channel so obviously they would get max points in benchmark.. how abt asking ppl who have dual channel set to remove one module and run benchmark?
OP
darklord
Cyborg Agent
@darklord agree on ur clock speed lock that better coolers will yield better results. same will be applicable to other parts of hardware also..say I have single channel memory..and somw wouldve dual channel so obviously they would get max points in benchmark.. how abt asking ppl who have dual channel set to remove one module and run benchmark?
99% of the users these days are on Dual Channel.Also arranging another stick for benching purpose temporarily shouldnt be a problem for you,right ?
axxo
99.9% Idle
most budget and upgrade minded users wont go for dual channel initially.getting another 2gb ddr2 will cost me 2000 bucks as same as cooler cost...
axxo
99.9% Idle
the classification is meaningful as you told in the first post..but there should not be any limitation in the components that one use under each category..as one may have good memory subsytem other may have good chipset and further some may have better cooler..
you should consider the overall performance averaging out all the test results, value factor, performance,etc...that way it would prove more meaningful..
OP
darklord
Cyborg Agent
Didnt get you there. There is no limitation.We have only capped the clock speed.Participants are allowed to use anything they want.
Also clasification is done on basis of fab process because 45nm perform better and give better results.If there is a single category then 45nm users will get unfair advantage and ones with 65nm will stand no chance.
As in ? See a single benchmark is used, you are supposed to run the benchmark, achieve best timing.Its simple as that.You are allowed to tweak whatever you want at the fixed CPU speed and achieve good score.Thats all.Achieving best possible performance settings is not the aim of this competition.
Its a competition, you are supposed to strive for the best score and win,rules are there, what you are allowed to do is stated, so you just give your best shot, simple as that.
ring_wraith
=--=l33t=--=
Actually, your competition is flawed in quite a few ways. Don't mean to be a spoilsport, just wanted to point it out.
First off, by fixing the speed for each category, you are essentially reducing it to a "Who's got more money?" competition. Once you've past the clock speed, it's only more expensive RAM that does crazy timings, a faster HDD and what not that can speed up your sPi time.
Overclocking is about skill, and the only logical competition that is possible is to see who can hit the highest clock speed while using a particular cooler.
Sorry, but that's just my opinion.
First off, by fixing the speed for each category, you are essentially reducing it to a "Who's got more money?" competition. Once you've past the clock speed, it's only more expensive RAM that does crazy timings, a faster HDD and what not that can speed up your sPi time.
Overclocking is about skill, and the only logical competition that is possible is to see who can hit the highest clock speed while using a particular cooler.
Sorry, but that's just my opinion.
DigitalDude
PhotonAttack
ring_wraith's argument makes sense.....
instead of fixing the speed the max amount to be spent on the config can be fixed... but I dunno how it will work out to the specifics
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instead of fixing the speed the max amount to be spent on the config can be fixed... but I dunno how it will work out to the specifics
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OP
darklord
Cyborg Agent
First off, by fixing the speed for each category, you are essentially reducing it to a "Who's got more money?" competition. -----> How is that so ? Infact by capping the clock speed, a same level is achieved at which everyone can compete.For example, a person with water cooling is bound to clock better,get better scores and win easily.At the same time a person with air cooling, cannot achieve this, wouldnt it be unfair for him ?
Although it helps, it doesnt make world of a difference. And frankly for 8M Faster HDD wouldnt make that much of a difference.
Memory timings, well just having a fancy kit doesnt help, how you tweak it to better your score, makes all the difference, doesnt this require skill and experience ?
Overclocking is about skill, and the only logical competition that is possible is to see who can hit the highest clock speed while using a particular cooler. ----> Agreed but for such a competition, the setup has to EXACT same for each participant then its a test of skills.If there is no limit on clocks for such an event, person with better cooling is going to win the competition without any hassles.
Also i know that there is no sureshot method to have perfectly fair competition but i think we have managed to make it as fair as possible.
ring_wraith's argument makes sense.....
instead of fixing the speed the max amount to be spent on the config can be fixed... but I dunno how it will work out to the specifics
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Consider this scenario,
I buy E8400,Abit IP35-E, Transcend DDR2 800
Someone purchases the same setup and gets a TRUE which costs ~ 2.6k
I instead use my DICE pot which cost me less than this.
I bench with DICE and i can gurantee you that i will get the best score out there because of my better cooling,hence better clocking and finally better score.
Is it fair ? I dont think so, why ? I had unfair advantage with cooling.
BUT if speed is locked at 4GHz for example, even if you use water cooling or LN2 or DICE,it doesnt matter. So cooling technique becomes immaterial.It all boils down to who has a better board, has good tweaking skills.
Also remember, had we organised a physical event then we would have provided the same stuff to everyone and then there wouldnt be any limits of any sorts.
That is not the case, so we had to do this.
Hope you guys get my point.
And trust me just having fancy hardware does not gurantee excellent clocks and excellent scores.
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ring_wraith
=--=l33t=--=
Ok, first off, I'm not a newbie to OCing and happen to know quite a bit, so I do know that when it comes to RAM, timings are as important as speed, and getting low timings with a high speed is something not achieved unless you have good RAM. Find me someone who can OC a Transcend value RAM 800 Mhz RAM to 1066 Mhz and keep timings at 4-4-4-12 and I will rest my case. This is of course, highly possible with a set of say, crucials.
Also, you said it yourself. A faster HDD does not matter, and you're not allowed to increase the clock speed any further. So what scope are you giving to competitors anyway? The only thing left is RAM, and even that speed is restricted because a 1:1 ratio of FSB:RAM offers the highest performance, so when you look at it, it all comes down to timing, which, of course depends on how good your RAM is.
In your analogy above, you have quite clearly used different coolers. It's common courtesy to read something before replying to it, and if you had read what I had said, then you would have figured out that it would only be fair to compare users with the same coolers.
Also, you said it yourself. A faster HDD does not matter, and you're not allowed to increase the clock speed any further. So what scope are you giving to competitors anyway? The only thing left is RAM, and even that speed is restricted because a 1:1 ratio of FSB:RAM offers the highest performance, so when you look at it, it all comes down to timing, which, of course depends on how good your RAM is.
In your analogy above, you have quite clearly used different coolers. It's common courtesy to read something before replying to it, and if you had read what I had said, then you would have figured out that it would only be fair to compare users with the same coolers.
axxo
99.9% Idle
^^exactly what i tried to say here..unable to express it properly.
most overclockers (99%) would be on upgraded air coolers...its rare to find anyone using stock coolers these days..
prohibit water cooler usage and allow air coolers atleast..instead of caping clock speed.
OP
darklord
Cyborg Agent
Ok, first off, I'm not a newbie to OCing and happen to know quite a bit, so I do know that when it comes to RAM, timings are as important as speed, and getting low timings with a high speed is something not achieved unless you have good RAM. Find me someone who can OC a Transcend value RAM 800 Mhz RAM to 1066 Mhz and keep timings at 4-4-4-12 and I will rest my case. This is of course, highly possible with a set of say, crucials. -----> I never said you are a noob.Even i know what difference timings make.I can say this confidently from my experience, that for SuperPi, CPU speed makes the most difference, tighter memory shaves negligible time,nothing compared to what a bump to CPU speed would shave off. So by limiting the CPU speed, we are trying to make it as fair as possible for all participants.
Also, you said it yourself. A faster HDD does not matter, and you're not allowed to increase the clock speed any further. So what scope are you giving to competitors anyway? The only thing left is RAM, and even that speed is restricted because a 1:1 ratio of FSB:RAM offers the highest performance, so when you look at it, it all comes down to timing, which, of course depends on how good your RAM is.------> You are talking as if RAM tweaking is a walk in the park
Also Pi timings dont revolve around RAM timings, there are other tweaks too,if the user knows them that is
In your analogy above, you have quite clearly used different coolers. It's common courtesy to read something before replying to it, and if you had read what I had said, then you would have figured out that it would only be fair to compare users with the same coolers.------> Even you should have thought before making such a comment that since this is an online competition, it is not possible for us to keep a physical check on whether participants are not cheating when it comes to cooling part (If clock speed capping is not done)
most overclockers (99%) would be on upgraded air coolers...its rare to find anyone using stock coolers these days..
prohibit water cooler usage and allow air coolers atleast..instead of caping clock speed.----------> Wouldnt mind doing that, could you devise a mechanism as to keep a check on whether people are sticking to Air cooling and not water cooling or something better ?
Also,think about it, IF a user has QX, he can just play with the multipliers, clock high on even Air cooling with a decent board,doesnt even need to touch memory timings tweaks,and wins the competition,why ? because he had an unlocked multiplier ? Would that be fair ?
@ring_wraith, now that you have brought up the topic of memory clocking at high speeds at tight timings, well even with high performance kits its not guranteed.
There is expensive kits, which love high speeds but no matter what you do, just HATE tight timings.Some kits behave exactly in the opposite fashion.
Nothing is guranteed.Also to do tight timings, you need volts, not all ICs love volts, only micron do.Elpida hates anything above 2.1V whereas micron is happily clocking even with 2.6-2.7
So you see there are lot of variables involved.Also your comments try to indicate that tweaking the primary 4 timings is all it takes to better your score, let me tell you, thats not true.There are Secondary timings,tweaking which gives you great boosts,these CAN be done on value ram.
I hope i have clarified your doubts.
Also, i request you to submit some scores instead of debating the rules of the competition as we are not going to change it.
i wud like to tell u that i've managed to oc my 2*1GB Transcend DDR2 667 sticks to 900Mhz @ 4-4-4-12 @ 2.2v.
since i dont hav 800MHz sticks so cudnt try oc'ing on them but may doin 1066 @ 4-4-4-12 @ 2.2v wud be possible.now this depends completely on wat ram chips u'll get with that 800 stick.
Hope u get my point.
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