No Direct3D sound for Vista!
- Thread starter Help~Is~Here
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OP
Help~Is~Here
Banned
Finally, someone did the right thing. Thank you raaabo for understanding the situation because it does seem that shantanu is taking things a bit too personally and not able to distinguish the fine lines between extreme and outright. And shantanu, I really don't know what do you mean by I insulted you in PM and on the post. Please show or tell me what you found insulting so that I could rephrase it in the future. Please don't behave like a kid anymore by taking simple english words as really insulting because I haven't insulted anyone nor do I have the intentions of insulting anyone. There are lot of other people to whom you have shown this kind of injustice but I really don't want to go into those things and create more problems which you might take personally. All I have to say is to control a bit more and yes like raabo said, if you find anybody insulting you, please report it because there are lot of different ways people interpret the word 'insulting'.
@gx, I do understand that I might have misunderstood the scenario things are presently in but the topic did hold valid at some point of time so I don't think it's a completely invalid point. However I do agree that I was mistaken on the part or the current scenario with regards to DS3D.
And one request for all the users here. I am saddened by the course the Random news section is taking by Winboys posting Negetive publicity of other OS's and every other OS supporters posting negative publicity about Windows! I mean what's this? Why are we all behaving like politicians and only try to publicise each others short comings like opposition parties do when the other is in power!
Most of you might know the scenario which led to the creation of this thread! Anyways, rather than we point fingers at each other anymore, for the love of god, lets all help the new users that are coming to this site by providing them helpful info and not chit chat in random news!
And to end this discussion, I think , this pic should be sufficient: hehehhehehehhe
*www.hobbyistlounge.com/images_uploaded/error1.JPG
Well, since the DS3D issue is cleared out.. I dont' think there's a point in this thread being open anymore..
@gx, I do understand that I might have misunderstood the scenario things are presently in but the topic did hold valid at some point of time so I don't think it's a completely invalid point. However I do agree that I was mistaken on the part or the current scenario with regards to DS3D.
And one request for all the users here. I am saddened by the course the Random news section is taking by Winboys posting Negetive publicity of other OS's and every other OS supporters posting negative publicity about Windows! I mean what's this? Why are we all behaving like politicians and only try to publicise each others short comings like opposition parties do when the other is in power!
Most of you might know the scenario which led to the creation of this thread! Anyways, rather than we point fingers at each other anymore, for the love of god, lets all help the new users that are coming to this site by providing them helpful info and not chit chat in random news!
And to end this discussion, I think , this pic should be sufficient: hehehhehehehhe
*www.hobbyistlounge.com/images_uploaded/error1.JPG
Well, since the DS3D issue is cleared out.. I dont' think there's a point in this thread being open anymore..
Last edited:
infra_red_dude
Wire muncher!
aah... peace again at digit forums
OP
Help~Is~Here
Banned
infra_red_dude said:aah... peace again at digit forums
There is always calm before a storm..
OP
Help~Is~Here
Banned
gx_saurav said:
Help~Is~Here said:There is always calm before a storm..
I guess the storm is coming
infra_red_dude
Wire muncher!
i wonder what we gonna witness here again.. katrina or rita? or kate or lindsay or our very own rani or aish!Help~Is~Here said:I guess the storm is coming
freshseasons
King of my own Castle
I simply don't get one thing ! Can someone please help me understand it ?
Obliviously Microsoft fixed all the problems with its upgrades and that i understand.
Whatever the issues were they were a year back.
Then,how misleading is this Thread title.
And the reality is, it is !
Someone is feeding the false opinion! Why ?
Obliviously Microsoft fixed all the problems with its upgrades and that i understand.
Whatever the issues were they were a year back.
Then,how misleading is this Thread title.
The title means that Direct3D is just not possible in Vista.
And the reality is, it is !
Someone is feeding the false opinion! Why ?
OP
Help~Is~Here
Banned
freshseasons said:
please read the posts after the title before you post something. Don't keep asking the same question for which has already been answered. It shows no reading, only posting!
freshseasons
King of my own Castle
^^^^^^
Besides reading this thread completely, i also read the previous thread.... ugh alas, which was locked, some what similar to this one.
Only in this thread you got , rid of one trigger happy mod.
But i still dont get it. Does reading the post 100 times alter the fact. I mean i am using Direct3D sound in Vista, which is clearly stated otherwise by your humble-bumble post.
Besides reading this thread completely, i also read the previous thread.... ugh alas, which was locked, some what similar to this one.
Only in this thread you got , rid of one trigger happy mod.
But i still dont get it. Does reading the post 100 times alter the fact. I mean i am using Direct3D sound in Vista, which is clearly stated otherwise by your humble-bumble post.
OP
Help~Is~Here
Banned
freshseasons said:^^^^^^
Besides reading this thread completely, i also read the previous thread.... ugh alas, which was locked, some what similar to this one.
Only in this thread you got , rid of one trigger happy mod.
But i still dont get it. Does reading the post 100 times alter the fact. I mean i am using Direct3D sound in Vista, which is clearly stated otherwise by your humble-bumble post.
Vista doesn't use Direct3D sound dude. Is it still not clear after reading the entire thread?
S
SoundGuy
Guest
Interesting thread. I'll attempt to clarify a few things about Vista audio;
1) DSound (including DS3D) is still there in Vista. The big difference between Vista and XP is that Vista no longer provides a "vendor extension" mechanism for DS3D. This is important, since it was the vendor extension mechanism that allowed companies like Creative to process DS3D calls on their hardware.
2) EAX is a property set extension to both DS3D and OpenAL. Under DS3D it also uses the vendor extension. Therefore any game written to take advantage of EAX under DS3D will break on Vista, since the game cannot detect the presence of 3D audio harware thru Vista due to the absence of a vendor extension mechanism. Exactly how the game breaks depends on how the developer implemented their audio. Most games, upon failing to detect DS3D-capable audio hardware, revert to a simple stereo software rendering engine in order to preserve CPU resources.
3) Games written to use OpenAL work just the same on Vista as they did on XP. However, OpenAL games work differently on both XP AND Vista depending on the capabilities of the audio device. If the audio device has native OpenAL capability then the game will render full multichannel sound (& EAX effects too if it has any). Both Creative and early Nvida Nforce chipsets have native OpenAL support along with dedicated DSP hardware to process the effects and mix the 3D audio. If a sound device does NOT have native OpenAL capability, the game will render a stereo software mix (possibly with software based EAX 2 level effects included).
4) The Creative ALchemy application solves the problem (for Creative cards) that still exists with Vista today with games written to use DS3D and that query for hardware support thru the vendor extension mechanism. It does this by translating the game calls from known DS3D titles to OpenAL in realtime.
HD audio is a software based audio standard developed by Intel and since adopted by Microsoft. It could be thought of as the "Standard VGA" of audio. Under Vista, HD audio can be extended in terms of functionality using the O/S' s "APO" mechanism - a software plugin scheme. Any processing delivered via APOs has to use host CPU cycles (i.e. there is no hardware acceleration mechanism).
Arguably game audio has gone backwards with Vista as a result of all the changes, and performance in general is worse than with XP. This is one reason why Dell and other vendors have forced Microsoft to continue to make XP available to them for their high end gaming rigs.
Happy fighting
SoundGuy
1) DSound (including DS3D) is still there in Vista. The big difference between Vista and XP is that Vista no longer provides a "vendor extension" mechanism for DS3D. This is important, since it was the vendor extension mechanism that allowed companies like Creative to process DS3D calls on their hardware.
2) EAX is a property set extension to both DS3D and OpenAL. Under DS3D it also uses the vendor extension. Therefore any game written to take advantage of EAX under DS3D will break on Vista, since the game cannot detect the presence of 3D audio harware thru Vista due to the absence of a vendor extension mechanism. Exactly how the game breaks depends on how the developer implemented their audio. Most games, upon failing to detect DS3D-capable audio hardware, revert to a simple stereo software rendering engine in order to preserve CPU resources.
3) Games written to use OpenAL work just the same on Vista as they did on XP. However, OpenAL games work differently on both XP AND Vista depending on the capabilities of the audio device. If the audio device has native OpenAL capability then the game will render full multichannel sound (& EAX effects too if it has any). Both Creative and early Nvida Nforce chipsets have native OpenAL support along with dedicated DSP hardware to process the effects and mix the 3D audio. If a sound device does NOT have native OpenAL capability, the game will render a stereo software mix (possibly with software based EAX 2 level effects included).
4) The Creative ALchemy application solves the problem (for Creative cards) that still exists with Vista today with games written to use DS3D and that query for hardware support thru the vendor extension mechanism. It does this by translating the game calls from known DS3D titles to OpenAL in realtime.
HD audio is a software based audio standard developed by Intel and since adopted by Microsoft. It could be thought of as the "Standard VGA" of audio. Under Vista, HD audio can be extended in terms of functionality using the O/S' s "APO" mechanism - a software plugin scheme. Any processing delivered via APOs has to use host CPU cycles (i.e. there is no hardware acceleration mechanism).
Arguably game audio has gone backwards with Vista as a result of all the changes, and performance in general is worse than with XP. This is one reason why Dell and other vendors have forced Microsoft to continue to make XP available to them for their high end gaming rigs.
Happy fighting
SoundGuy
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