Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alcohol
CommanderShawnzer
Steam High Templar
OP
mediator
Technomancer
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
I know many "Hindus" who serve beef, cook beef in their homes and enjoy talking about non-vegetarians. Similarly, I can see many Japanese and Chinese (apparently buddhists) eating non-veg. Thousands of universes have passed by where I have repeatedly asked people to understand the difference between "religious beliefs" and "acts of the people"; "philosophy" and "religions". Going by the original definition of Hindu, many of those who live in India/hindustan i.e hindus (irrespective of what they are called as) eat beef. Original meaning of word "hindu" -> geographic, today it is religious, the core scriptures of which lay a meaning which is totally against religion/cult! e.g The teaching of Bhagvada-Geeta is totally against the blind belief in Krishna e.g verse 9.11, 18.63, 3.42 and many more!
I know many "Hindus" who serve beef, cook beef in their homes and enjoy talking about non-vegetarians. Similarly, I can see many Japanese and Chinese (apparently buddhists) eating non-veg. Thousands of universes have passed by where I have repeatedly asked people to understand the difference between "religious beliefs" and "acts of the people"; "philosophy" and "religions". Going by the original definition of Hindu, many of those who live in India/hindustan i.e hindus (irrespective of what they are called as) eat beef. Original meaning of word "hindu" -> geographic, today it is religious, the core scriptures of which lay a meaning which is totally against religion/cult! e.g The teaching of Bhagvada-Geeta is totally against the blind belief in Krishna e.g verse 9.11, 18.63, 3.42 and many more!
cyborg47
Technomancer
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
You seriously haven't seen a hindu selling/serving/eating beef till date?I'd like to know which Hindoo will sell/serve beef
skeletor
Chosen of the Omnissiah
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
Ask the same questions to yourself. If you finally find an answer, you might stop littering the News section with these threads.
OP
mediator
Technomancer
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
Thats more like an Amul Baby reply.
Public - How will you stop corruption?
Amul Baby - The question is "how will you do it"?
So, I finally found the answer and "hence" I'm posting a few threads. I don't know what you mean by "these" threads. There is this section called Random news and people can share non-tech news in this section. I believe mods should rise beyond the cause and effect filters that they see other people with. Anyways, your pravachans might be quoted in the future. I don't know if you have a habit of speaking just because you wanna speak something quoting me unnecessarily. We all know you are mod!
If you can spare me, please stop littering my posts with your unneeded psycho-analysis and post only and only if you have something of substance!
Thats more like an Amul Baby reply.
Public - How will you stop corruption?
Amul Baby - The question is "how will you do it"?
So, I finally found the answer and "hence" I'm posting a few threads. I don't know what you mean by "these" threads. There is this section called Random news and people can share non-tech news in this section. I believe mods should rise beyond the cause and effect filters that they see other people with. Anyways, your pravachans might be quoted in the future. I don't know if you have a habit of speaking just because you wanna speak something quoting me unnecessarily. We all know you are mod!
If you can spare me, please stop littering my posts with your unneeded psycho-analysis and post only and only if you have something of substance!
powerhoney
Cyborg Agent
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
+1000 to this... Very well said!!!
Thats more like an Amul Baby reply.
Public - How will you stop corruption?
Amul Baby - The question is "how will you do it"?
So, I finally found the answer and "hence" I'm posting a few threads. I don't know what you mean by "these" threads. There is this section called Random news and people can share non-tech news in this section. I believe mods should rise beyond the cause and effect filters that they see other people with. Anyways, your pravachans might be quoted in the future. I don't know if you have a habit of speaking just because you wanna speak something quoting me unnecessarily. We all know you are mod!
If you can spare me, please stop littering my posts with your unneeded psycho-analysis and post only and only if you have something of substance!
+1000 to this... Very well said!!!
lywyre
Cyborg Agent
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
@mediator: This is your third thread (that I know of) against a particular segment and I would have given my thoughts had you been democratic. You have not started any thread against any other segment and I can only take it that you are all out against that particular segment. I am not against you, but against your narrow view on the said segment. There are acts by other segments of people that are just as evil or prejudiced. I can't see a reason why you can't see that.
These are bound to happen when people are divided. With the rise of population, the frequency and probability of such events to happen only tends to increase. Instead of blaming certain people for all the problems, take a step back and look if there are any other solution. Look for the cause, then we shall get a possible solution. I say possible, not definite, only because all the segment of the people may not subscribe to the possible solution.
@mediator: This is your third thread (that I know of) against a particular segment and I would have given my thoughts had you been democratic. You have not started any thread against any other segment and I can only take it that you are all out against that particular segment. I am not against you, but against your narrow view on the said segment. There are acts by other segments of people that are just as evil or prejudiced. I can't see a reason why you can't see that.
These are bound to happen when people are divided. With the rise of population, the frequency and probability of such events to happen only tends to increase. Instead of blaming certain people for all the problems, take a step back and look if there are any other solution. Look for the cause, then we shall get a possible solution. I say possible, not definite, only because all the segment of the people may not subscribe to the possible solution.
warfreak
Talk to the hand!!!
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
Conversely, Secularism also implies that the state does not interfere in the religious practices of people.
Secularism means being fair to all religions and sects.
Secularism does not mean imposing a standard set of rules and forcing everyone to abide by it.
But that is just IMO. You say everyone should be treated equally, I say everyone should be treated fairly. That's all. I'm not saying I am right, neither am I saying that you are wrong.
Conversely, Secularism also implies that the state does not interfere in the religious practices of people.
Secularism means being fair to all religions and sects.
Secularism does not mean imposing a standard set of rules and forcing everyone to abide by it.
But that is just IMO. You say everyone should be treated equally, I say everyone should be treated fairly. That's all. I'm not saying I am right, neither am I saying that you are wrong.
OP
mediator
Technomancer
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
It would be a dream come true, if Indians are educted in ethics of a discussion where realizing the subject of discussion is made mandatory for the very entry into the discussion.
@lywyre - You can search and find me post and create threads where so called "Hindu" didn't serve food because "beef" was served, Buddhist because rat pudding was served or "Sikh" because "alcohol" was served and I shall give you gyaan why such post should not be posted. Your connivance with such a slap on "secularism" is quite peculiar. Instead of discussing as to why in the land of the seculars, where even after knowing the businesss of the company, a certain individual refused to carry instructions based on his "personal" law/religion/beliefs, you are actually doing a trend analysis?
The post has been made because of a certain reason. Can you identify the reason? Can you identify what has been said in the post instead of making the discussion go on a tangent with a topic - "Instead of blaming certain people for all the problems, take a step back and look if there are any other solution.".
The solution is simple. Anybody who cannot respect company laws, other nation laws doesn't deserve to live there or work there. For personal beliefs/laws, one cannot shun his business or security (e.g case of burqa in developed countries).
---------------------
Guys please continue the discussion, enough of the trolls for one day!
@warfreak - Take a hypothetical scenario, where I create a religion, lets say mediatorism where killing humans on a particular day, lets call it human-id, is the belief, to praise the almight "millah". What should the state do?
Now suppose state has law where animal protection and welfare is the priority and killing animals is punishable crime with penalty upto 10 years in jail. What should theists who kill animals do?
It would be a dream come true, if Indians are educted in ethics of a discussion where realizing the subject of discussion is made mandatory for the very entry into the discussion.
@lywyre - You can search and find me post and create threads where so called "Hindu" didn't serve food because "beef" was served, Buddhist because rat pudding was served or "Sikh" because "alcohol" was served and I shall give you gyaan why such post should not be posted. Your connivance with such a slap on "secularism" is quite peculiar. Instead of discussing as to why in the land of the seculars, where even after knowing the businesss of the company, a certain individual refused to carry instructions based on his "personal" law/religion/beliefs, you are actually doing a trend analysis?
The post has been made because of a certain reason. Can you identify the reason? Can you identify what has been said in the post instead of making the discussion go on a tangent with a topic - "Instead of blaming certain people for all the problems, take a step back and look if there are any other solution.".
The solution is simple. Anybody who cannot respect company laws, other nation laws doesn't deserve to live there or work there. For personal beliefs/laws, one cannot shun his business or security (e.g case of burqa in developed countries).
---------------------
Guys please continue the discussion, enough of the trolls for one day!
@warfreak - Take a hypothetical scenario, where I create a religion, lets say mediatorism where killing humans on a particular day, lets call it human-id, is the belief, to praise the almight "millah". What should the state do?
Now suppose state has law where animal protection and welfare is the priority and killing animals is punishable crime with penalty upto 10 years in jail. What should theists who kill animals do?
srkmish
Ambassador of Buzz
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
Unneeded psychoanalysis
Thats more like an Amul Baby reply.
Public - How will you stop corruption?
Amul Baby - The question is "how will you do it"?
So, I finally found the answer and "hence" I'm posting a few threads. I don't know what you mean by "these" threads. There is this section called Random news and people can share non-tech news in this section. I believe mods should rise beyond the cause and effect filters that they see other people with. Anyways, your pravachans might be quoted in the future. I don't know if you have a habit of speaking just because you wanna speak something quoting me unnecessarily. We all know you are mod!
If you can spare me, please stop littering my posts with your unneeded psycho-analysis and post only and only if you have something of substance!
Unneeded psychoanalysis
warfreak
Talk to the hand!!!
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
I was expecting this response. You are simply going to an extreme to prove your point. If we were living in a barbaric time, that would be widely prevalent but in today's world that practice would surely be abolished not only by the state but also by the followers of "mediatorism".
Case in point: how sati was abolished by both the British colonists and Hindu reform movements of the 1800s.
Also refusing to serve certain food is a little less extreme than killing a person to please any god and hence applying the same logic in both cases isn't reasonable.
I was expecting this response
. You are simply going to an extreme to prove your point. If we were living in a barbaric time, that would be widely prevalent but in today's world that practice would surely be abolished not only by the state but also by the followers of "mediatorism". Case in point: how sati was abolished by both the British colonists and Hindu reform movements of the 1800s.
Also refusing to serve certain food is a little less extreme than killing a person to please any god and hence applying the same logic in both cases isn't reasonable.
CommanderShawnzer
Steam High Templar
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
*2.bp.blogspot.com/-eO8o9_rI154/Tw4x1NQg0EI/AAAAAAAAAnk/QeUJsEsqgMg/s1600/gus-psyche-popcorn.gif
*2.bp.blogspot.com/-eO8o9_rI154/Tw4x1NQg0EI/AAAAAAAAAnk/QeUJsEsqgMg/s1600/gus-psyche-popcorn.gif
OP
mediator
Technomancer
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
@Warfreak -
Not only Sati, I'd welcome if casteism, people marrying dogs and frogs in south, khap rituals are all banned! For you animals might be "lesser" than humans to be saying "lso refusing to serve certain food is a little less extreme than killing a person", but for me animal life has same importance or may be more than human. Animals atleast know when to stop their need getting converted to a want or stay synchronized and in equilibrium with the nature contrary to the greedy humans who slaughter lakhs of chickens, lambs, cows, calf etc in machines to satisfy their "taste" alone.
Your judgement that I'm going to the extreme is still based on this subject bias where you have lesser concern for animals. For me meat-eating is as barbaric as animal killing as it might be the case of human killing for you. For me it is the height of barbaric times from the history that I've known, where being "civilized" is attributed only to monetary success regardless of inborn character or concern for the nature and its manifestations.
You might have taken for granted that animals can/should/might/would be treated like this, but I refuse to accept it and hence my question persists. Please answer if you can...
@noob - Well said!
@Warfreak -
Not only Sati, I'd welcome if casteism, people marrying dogs and frogs in south, khap rituals are all banned! For you animals might be "lesser" than humans to be saying "lso refusing to serve certain food is a little less extreme than killing a person", but for me animal life has same importance or may be more than human. Animals atleast know when to stop their need getting converted to a want or stay synchronized and in equilibrium with the nature contrary to the greedy humans who slaughter lakhs of chickens, lambs, cows, calf etc in machines to satisfy their "taste" alone.
Your judgement that I'm going to the extreme is still based on this subject bias where you have lesser concern for animals. For me meat-eating is as barbaric as animal killing as it might be the case of human killing for you. For me it is the height of barbaric times from the history that I've known, where being "civilized" is attributed only to monetary success regardless of inborn character or concern for the nature and its manifestations.
You might have taken for granted that animals can/should/might/would be treated like this, but I refuse to accept it and hence my question persists. Please answer if you can...
mediator said:
@noob - Well said!
warfreak
Talk to the hand!!!
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
So, what was the intention of your OP?
Let me get this straight.
First, you post a news article about a person not complying with another person for her request for meat. Then you imply that the former was wrong in not carrying out their duty.
And now you say meat consumption is a bad thing according to your views? So in that sense, the latter was at fault for requesting meat.
Your post was full of self contradiction!!!
So, what was the intention of your OP?
Let me get this straight.
First, you post a news article about a person not complying with another person for her request for meat. Then you imply that the former was wrong in not carrying out their duty.
And now you say meat consumption is a bad thing according to your views? So in that sense, the latter was at fault for requesting meat.
Your post was full of self contradiction!!!
CommanderShawnzer
Steam High Templar
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
it was champagne actually
Eating meat is natural.We are Omnivores.
So, what was the intention of your OP?
Let me get this straight.
First, you post a news article about a person not complying with another person for her request for meat. Then you imply that the former was wrong in not carrying out their duty.
And now you say meat consumption is a bad thing according to your views? So in that sense, the latter was at fault for requesting meat.
it was champagne actually
Eating meat is natural.We are Omnivores.
OP
mediator
Technomancer
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
@warfreak-
Its irrelevant to me whether people eat meat or not. Animal welfare/vegetarianism is my personal opinion. Even if I was a waiter either I wouldn't have joined a meat eating restaurant in the first place or would have kept my personal opinion to myself. The post I started talks about several things
a) Personal opinion/beliefs/religious_laws affecting the administration of a previously known business where the activist already understood the responsibility of his work. This is also prevalent where the activists starte affecting the security of the state by quoting their own religious laws (burqa).
b) Definition of secularism (the context which was discussed between you and me) where religious laws should not affect the progress of the state. Please understand the definition of secularism and where it rose and why the church and state needed to be separate!
To be able to find contradiction, you need to understand my points first. My point is not about meat eating in the 1st place here. For that, I have fought in FIGHt CLUB enough.
I have a feeeling you are trying to dodge/ignore my questions for reasons unknown. You have my benefit of doubt. Please answer if you can or you may chose to be silent if you can't....
@warfreak-
Its irrelevant to me whether people eat meat or not. Animal welfare/vegetarianism is my personal opinion. Even if I was a waiter either I wouldn't have joined a meat eating restaurant in the first place or would have kept my personal opinion to myself. The post I started talks about several things
a) Personal opinion/beliefs/religious_laws affecting the administration of a previously known business where the activist already understood the responsibility of his work. This is also prevalent where the activists starte affecting the security of the state by quoting their own religious laws (burqa).
b) Definition of secularism (the context which was discussed between you and me) where religious laws should not affect the progress of the state. Please understand the definition of secularism and where it rose and why the church and state needed to be separate!
To be able to find contradiction, you need to understand my points first. My point is not about meat eating in the 1st place here. For that, I have fought in FIGHt CLUB enough.
I have a feeeling you are trying to dodge/ignore my questions for reasons unknown. You have my benefit of doubt. Please answer if you can or you may chose to be silent if you can't....
mediator said:
warfreak
Talk to the hand!!!
Re: Marks & Spencer apologizes after saying Muslim staff may refuse to serve customers pork and alco
Yes, I am dodging that question, not because I am uncomfortable answering it, but because it does not necessarily apply to the original issue at hand.
A mall is a place where there are thousands of attendants employed, and if a person cannot get help from one of them, they can simply turn towards another.
If it were, say a question of National security where your religious beliefs would conflict with state interests, I will side with the person who chooses state over religion.
But on an issue as frivolous as getting meat/alcohol at a mall, I believe there is no need of blowing this completely out of proportion and comparing with other nonsensical "hypothetical scenarios".
My opinion: Everyone should be allowed to carry out their respective traditions regardless how silly they are as long as they do not directly or indirectly harm any other being and/or conflict with a greater cause.
On the OP: In case any employee cannot comply with your request due to their personal beliefs, they can simply turn to other employee that can comply. A mall would surely have lots of attendants and IMO this shouldn't be made a huge deal.
What you are doing is simply snooping around for news which puts a certain community in bad light and posting them here. This borders towards bigotry and really doesn't do any good to anyone.
Yes, I am dodging that question, not because I am uncomfortable answering it, but because it does not necessarily apply to the original issue at hand.
A mall is a place where there are thousands of attendants employed, and if a person cannot get help from one of them, they can simply turn towards another.
If it were, say a question of National security where your religious beliefs would conflict with state interests, I will side with the person who chooses state over religion.
But on an issue as frivolous as getting meat/alcohol at a mall, I believe there is no need of blowing this completely out of proportion and comparing with other nonsensical "hypothetical scenarios".
My opinion: Everyone should be allowed to carry out their respective traditions regardless how silly they are as long as they do not directly or indirectly harm any other being and/or conflict with a greater cause.
On the OP: In case any employee cannot comply with your request due to their personal beliefs, they can simply turn to other employee that can comply. A mall would surely have lots of attendants and IMO this shouldn't be made a huge deal.
What you are doing is simply snooping around for news which puts a certain community in bad light and posting them here. This borders towards bigotry and really doesn't do any good to anyone.