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is blaming islam correct

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iMav

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
look man didnt want to turn it into a fight just a question that was in my mind and hence i posted it .... peace man ;) dont issue a fatwa against me :D
 

nix

Senior Member
@ faraaz:nobody has engaged in "islam bashing" here. its just open talk. muslims must collectively do something to root it out, they should take on the "attention seekers"...if no action is taken, the "attention seekers" will only get more powerful. the liberals should not just sit and do nothing....
 

praka123

left this forum longback
@someoneelse:Is Lucknow that much a calm city?I dont think so.as per the news reports it still gets sectorial clashes :-| u know what i mean.
 

mediator

Technomancer
Mate, I've had it with all this Islam bashing, but I don't even give a fsck anymore.

@Mediator: Like I said, brainwashed...
Who's bashing ISLAM? Rather its those terrorists and ur maulvis and people like Bukhari of Jama Masjid who r mocking ISLAM by their (mis)deeds. U can say wateva to me personally, it doesn't matter. But if u don't like the reality then I feel sad for u. Instead of facing it, u r saying others r brainwashed? Its like an OS1 Vs OS2 war where people from both the sides keep shouting but nobody is bothered to understand each others viewpoint and hence 'repeating the history again n again'.

I don't have anything against ISLAM and understand how u feel, but u shud do the same and understand the reality, what I am saying and how a non-muslim feels about such things!!
 
OP
iMav

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
look faraaz thts a general perception that i put in a very blunt manner thats all man im sorry if any of my comments were against Islam in any way
 

clmlbx

Technomancer
I just want to say is ISLAM can not be blamed for any terrorist activities .

DO U THINK THAT when ever there is a terrorist attack in our country or in other country they send the news to local muslims that no muslim should be present at that time because we r going to attack . NO, NOT AT ALL

they don't even want to know who u r and what is ur religion they just do it .

take incidents like 9/11 or 93 bomb blast ? do u think no muslims was injured or dead ?

If they followed ISLAM . Then they should have also followed the ISLAM RULES .but do they follow ? no , not at all

if they were one sided ( towards islam ) , then there were never been attacks on muslim areas or masjids and in muslim countries .

but they attack on this areas also . so this say that they are just terrorist . and they should be just killed .
 

faraaz

Evil Genius
@iMav, mediator,nix: I never said you were personally doing islam bashing...and honestly, I don't particularly care what anyone on these boards says about Islam. I don't need my faith to be validated by a 3rd person.

But honestly, I'll tell you one thing...one can say "The liberals must get together and do something about the vocal minority"...but I ask you...HOW do you do that? How does anyone make a difference in a situation like this?
 

gxsaurav

You gave been GXified
All of you, what r u fighting for?

Yes the terrorist are saying that they are doing all this nonsense for islam & yes, the high priests give them support. But remember, it is there culture. there they do not hate Osama, they like them. The fire is from both side, wasn't it America who once aided Osama themselves?

Just remember one rule. No matter what religion u r, whether Hindu or Islam or Christian, if you are asked to kill some innocent person in the name of god, then the high priest is indeed a idiot whether it is some maulana or some sant or even the pope.

No religion in this world tell you to kill someone innocent. Those who kill in the name of god are just doing this for there own sins & blaming the god. They don't believe in god & god is there just to put the blame on.

Now can we just enjoy the sewaniyan & French fries. :D
 

mediator

Technomancer
But honestly, I'll tell you one thing...one can say "The liberals must get together and do something about the vocal minority"...but I ask you...HOW do you do that? How does anyone make a difference in a situation like this?
What more do u want to be done for the minority? They r already enjoying so many priviledges! Now if inspite of that if the minority needs something to be done specially for them then who can help them? Who knows tomorrow they'll ask for more! If anything is to be done then it is to be done by themselves. Like I said in previous debate many Muslims dont consider themselves as INDIANS today also but as Pakistanis, some give preference to religion over nation and people like Bukhari do politics more than preaching!

There was just a line said by POPE and we saw months of agitation by MUSLIMS all over in INDIA. Likewise why not stage peaceful protests and give a messege to Paki terrorists that INDIANS will not be fooled by their little tricks?

U say media always bashes Muslims. Where were u when media was showing the unity when there was MUMBAI blasts, delhi blasts, srinagar blasts etc?? Paki terrorists is not operating from pakistan alone. It has hotbeds in Bangladesh, NEPAL and even srilanka AFAIK covering the whole of INDIA. But what is INDIAN politicians saying? Singing the tune of friendship and donating money to the families of victim and ignoring the matter? It doesn't matter if u r a muslim or a hindu coz the whole of INDIA is their target!! Its not for me to 'preach' whats to be done, its to be decided by liberal muslims like u what can be done and discuss it with similar souls. People have to stop chosing religion over nation!!

Muslim mobs saying that Vande mataram is against ISLAM is not gonna help. Likewise sharia'h is against the ideals of democracy and equality to all!! I pity the ones who stage agitation and protests over for even the practise of Yoga and Vedas like ayurveda and vedic mathematics etc in skools, some saying that its against ISLAM or is UnIslamic. How do u describe this attitude of muslims who act like such retards??

Today's Hindus really dont give any heed to corrupt pandits who count money more than practising their work and speak incorrect mantras. Likewise Muslims have to ignore corrupt maulvis and Imams like Bukhari who has several cases registered against him!!

Recently I watched a TV news where Ustad Amjad Ali khan was telling how in Mosques inappropriate authorities are selected who dont even sing properly during the morning prayers etc!

So Tolerance and little rational approach is all needed! Muslims really need to understand the viewpoint of all the people even if someone criticises ISLAM irrationally. They have to act peacefully in such circumstances and have to stop chosing religion over the nation.
 

praka123

left this forum longback
It will take time for the religion to be more tolerant.gave them time.
Hindus/Christian religion are not preying anybody

edited: :D
 
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goobimama

 Macboy
Islam as a religion is good. Amazing. Actually all religions are. Its just that some people use these texts to interpret it as something else.

After all, most of the 'killing' has been done in the name of religion, even though not even one religion professes it. That's why I've given up on religion...
 

Liggy

Is actually a real word..
goobimama said:
Islam as a religion is good. Amazing. Actually all religions are. Its just that some people use these texts to interpret it as something else.

After all, most of the 'killing' has been done in the name of religion, even though not even one religion professes it. That's why I've given up on religion...

I agree with you buddy, well except I haven't given up on religion. people use religion as an excuse, but what they really mean to say is politics. most religions have same basic rules... or common sense, you know killing is bad, but people do it anyway.
 

praka123

left this forum longback
Frankly,when you go deep into your religion,i feel with some religion hatred starts,I found some religion(s) are following the culture been forced on to foreign lands too,even their language,dress code,laws.is it a good approach in a secular country that one sided changes will survive?I hope not :-|
I hate the fact that in many Indian Cities,religion based colonies exists.it su*ks.for eg:Muslim colony(pet),Hindu caste based colonies and may be christians are the ones who dont have such habits,but they are a meager minority.Let this attitude change and be open,think beyond your religions,even if your belief is that your religion is the real one and others are all going to hell.
 
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apacheman

Journeyman
Well, well.
Don't judge a Car by its Driver. just like, dont judge a Religion by its Followers.
read the authentic source behind it.
if u really want to know about Islam, read the Quran. if u want to know about Hinduism, den read the Vedas.
u'll be really awed on reading these scriptures, jus give it a shot!
 

faraaz

Evil Genius
mediator said:
What more do u want to be done for the minority? They r already enjoying so many priviledges! Now if inspite of that if the minority needs something to be done specially for them then who can help them? Who knows tomorrow they'll ask for more! If anything is to be done then it is to be done by themselves. Like I said in previous debate many Muslims dont consider themselves as INDIANS today also but as Pakistanis, some give preference to religion over nation and people like Bukhari do politics more than preaching!

There was just a line said by POPE and we saw months of agitation by MUSLIMS all over in INDIA. Likewise why not stage peaceful protests and give a messege to Paki terrorists that INDIANS will not be fooled by their little tricks?

U say media always bashes Muslims. Where were u when media was showing the unity when there was MUMBAI blasts, delhi blasts, srinagar blasts etc?? Paki terrorists is not operating from pakistan alone. It has hotbeds in Bangladesh, NEPAL and even srilanka AFAIK covering the whole of INDIA. But what is INDIAN politicians saying? Singing the tune of friendship and donating money to the families of victim and ignoring the matter? It doesn't matter if u r a muslim or a hindu coz the whole of INDIA is their target!! Its not for me to 'preach' whats to be done, its to be decided by liberal muslims like u what can be done and discuss it with similar souls. People have to stop chosing religion over nation!!

Muslim mobs saying that Vande mataram is against ISLAM is not gonna help. Likewise sharia'h is against the ideals of democracy and equality to all!! I pity the ones who stage agitation and protests over for even the practise of Yoga and Vedas like ayurveda and vedic mathematics etc in skools, some saying that its against ISLAM or is UnIslamic. How do u describe this attitude of muslims who act like such retards??

Today's Hindus really dont give any heed to corrupt pandits who count money more than practising their work and speak incorrect mantras. Likewise Muslims have to ignore corrupt maulvis and Imams like Bukhari who has several cases registered against him!!

Recently I watched a TV news where Ustad Amjad Ali khan was telling how in Mosques inappropriate authorities are selected who dont even sing properly during the morning prayers etc!

So Tolerance and little rational approach is all needed! Muslims really need to understand the viewpoint of all the people even if someone criticises ISLAM irrationally. They have to act peacefully in such circumstances and have to stop chosing religion over the nation.

I was asking what I should be doing to change the image of Islam dude, not asking for more privileges for minorities. If you read my other posts on the subject, you will find that I am strictly against any reservations for minorities.
 

karnivore

in your face..
Every religion has its own black sheep. Christians have their pets, Islam has its own and we Hindus have our own, in the shape and size of VHP etc. To judge the entire religion on the deeds, rather misdeeds, of these genetically unevolved chimps, would be infinitely moronic.

But [there is always this pesky little "but" hiding somewhere] the fact that remains to be seen is, does the system give scope for self-criticism or self-correction or adaption to modern complexities of civilization ? This, in my opinion, is the litmus test for any religion.

And it is this area, unfortunately, Islam is somewhat questionable. No i am not saying the Hunduism or Christianity is epitome of magnanimity, but there is a reasonable scope for intelligent debates within these systems. I am not sure if i can say the same for Islam.

This is, probably one of the reasons why and how Islam has been hijacked by some self-claimed misguided saviours, giving Islam a bad name.
 

mediator

Technomancer
faraaz said:
I was asking what I should be doing to change the image of Islam dude, not asking for more privileges for minorities. If you read my other posts on the subject, you will find that I am strictly against any reservations for minorities.
Thats for u to ponder and decide! Why is it happening and what shud be done to prevent it and to ponder over such things u have to be an INDIAN first, u have to think from the national point of view!

If a Hindu leader tells Muslims what to do then obviously in light of reality, they will protest and burn his effigies. If a liberal Muslim will talk, then fatwa will be issued against him and he may have to live in exile if the circumstances deteriorate. U have already read the posts of many members here and also people in some communiites of what they dont like about MUSLIMS. See the link I gave in my first post here. U know the reality and whats happening in the world. So u think what can be done!
 
OP
iMav

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
self criticism - agreed is the key word .... kuch bola nahi ki sadakon pe uttar aye ... at the same time man mediator bang on target ;)

faraaz im with u that there is very little that an individual can do its like students protesting against the politicians nohing will happen we are the 1s at the loosing end ... today we have the internet which is has a huge impact on thousands of people .... get some of your friends start a blog, a website .... initiate the recognition of change - im not saying people havent changed their outlook but the the change is not known ... make it known ....
 

faraaz

Evil Genius
mediator said:
Thats for u to ponder and decide! Why is it happening and what shud be done to prevent it and to ponder over such things u have to be an INDIAN first, u have to think from the national point of view!

If a Hindu leader tells Muslims what to do then obviously in light of reality, they will protest and burn his effigies. If a liberal Muslim will talk, then fatwa will be issued against him and he may have to live in exile if the circumstances deteriorate. U have already read the posts of many members here and also people in some communiites of what they dont like about MUSLIMS. See the link I gave in my first post here. U know the reality and whats happening in the world. So u think what can be done!

I have pondered and decided that these guys are up a creek without a paddle. And I also decided that I'm just going to keep my distance from those hardcore fellows and carry on with my life.

I'd just like to point out that its easy to say but difficult to do. I was asking you what you think because I am sick of being told to "make a change" etc etc, but no one says okay...here's how you make changes:

STEP 1: Go here and do this
STEP 2: After that, do this
and so on and so forth...

Until someone gives me that, I'm going to pay as much attention to them as I do to those irritating fellows who try to sell you cheap tissue paper at traffic signals...

iMav said:
self criticism - agreed is the key word .... kuch bola nahi ki sadakon pe uttar aye ... at the same time man mediator bang on target ;)

faraaz im with u that there is very little that an individual can do its like students protesting against the politicians nohing will happen we are the 1s at the loosing end ... today we have the internet which is has a huge impact on thousands of people .... get some of your friends start a blog, a website .... initiate the recognition of change - im not saying people havent changed their outlook but the the change is not known ... make it known ....

Glad you see my point. But I'll tell you what, I don't care enough about this **** to actually waste my life and my time on this stuff. Man, another few months and I'm off to Zurich for my MBA...and after that I'm going to be there for a good few years. Screw the hardcore Muslims, and screw anyone who thinks they can tell me what to do...
 
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