How Many of Us Uses Pirated/Cracked Software

[Maverick340]

Software needs to become more reasonably priced. This will bring piracy down. But eliminate it ? Never. As long as there is something to be broken people will do so.

Cant Agree with you any more....

 

[klinux]

so this is the end of the thread ???? . THE END , FIN , VANNAKKAM/Nandri ?????

hope amanwannalearn is learning something outta all this

 

[ujjwal]

@icecoolz - Actually there are freeware alternates for all of the above, but piracy does bring a kinda aversion in people against free software. Just because someone CAN get photoshop for "free", they would not like to use free alternatives like Gimp or Photoplus 5.5 ...

Piracy exists at two levels

1. Where it is sort of unavoidable. When one already spends a lot for the hardware, one can't afford to spend another 5k for the OS. Maybe sometime applications for linux will be plentiful, and someone will be sensible enough to opt for an easy to use distro like Vector Linux, but till then, most people would want windows on their system.
Another example is schools. If they spend a lot to get a computer lab, they can't spend another lakh or so to get a licence to use windows an any number of machines.

2. Where it is inexcusable, like when we may no mind the ads of flashget, but we still crack it, just because we can.

Personally, I feel the biggest problem with most commercial software is the licenses... you cant install it on more than one computer, can't play around/modify it, etc...

 

[technovice]

i think it is pretty obvious that a majority of us use pirated s/w whether we admit it or not
and i think this issue will not be resolved until most of us are actively involved with open source s/w
waiting for that day when all s/ws are available for free and so is the internet access coz right now some of us end up paying more for our monthly dialup bills than for our school / college fees

 

[DKant]

I still dont think companies are going to get bankrupt because a few teens all over india and a couple of other people are going to use pirated s/w .

Mmm hmm. So u mean to say that stealing from Azim Premji's house would be ethical compared to stealing a 50 paise coin from a beggar?

But if you sit and develop a code and perfect it and try to sell it, and someone just rips it off without paying you and puts it up for download on a Warez site, how would you feel? All the nights you sat down coding it, trying to beat the deadling, staying away from family and friends and feasting on junk food, and finally, when the time comes for you to get paid for all of that work, bang.

EXACTLY! It's that thought that made me give original s/w a chance Considering that I am gonna probably spend the rest of my life coding. Of course, Win is outta reach rite now, coz of the price, but when it is possible to go 4 it, I wld.

Another thing that kinda forced me into the switch was the fact that ideologically, for now, I support the FSF, and I wanted to somehow, in my own little personal way, disprove Micro$hit's theory that ppl who develop OSS/Freedomware are pirates & crackers etc. etc. Of course, considering what they say is darn stupid, there was no need to..but still

But..

Software needs to become more reasonably priced. This will bring piracy down. But eliminate it ? Never. As long as there is something to be broken people will do so.

...that's right too, unfortunately. But atleast we can do our bit.

P.S: And BTW why r u guys getting so agitated about the analogy? The analogy was not for the act of cracking/pirating itself, but the seemingly convenient re-wording that was being attempted. What enoonmai meant was that calling piracy something else wouldn't be much different from calling rape anything else. Both would be equally stupid and unethical. He was not comparing software piracy and rape for god's sake!

 

[klinux]

Why do u think robinhood is a legend . me serious on this . Arent there guys who just hate gates out there . Since ur a developer , think abt whom u should really fear , some guy copying ur companies s/w which u helped create and using it for learning more on the s/w and not gaining a profit , while corporates buy ur s/w legally or MS copying ur s/w and giving u zilch for it and making ur company bankrupt and leave the developers with no credit for their work / ideas and hopping between jobs ???

regarding the analogy : well , did u check out his description and details properly ?????? thats offending to victims of the crime and i still stick to the fact he shouldnt have said it .

 

[enoonmai]

couple of my friends work around this problem by adding easter eggs and other comments with their name hidden somewhere to overcome such problems . Anyway , i think u could have sued her and won , instead of just leaving the company . If u really think one man can make a difference , u had the oppurtunity . i think u still can , if u have the evidence . if u dont , sue her anyway

How do you think I found out in the first place that it was my code? Anyway, what would happen if I sued? I obviously have to drag the company into this too, and you know what would have happened? I'd have ruined my career. I'd be labeled "belligerent, not a team player" and God knows what else, and I can't quote a single reference from the company in the future. And how could I stay? Having to watch my colleague's face again? And the people who supported her? I'd feel a total lack of trust, absolute disrespect and plain loathing whenever I saw them again. And its not like I really had "concrete evidence" except the code snippets that I say I coded. And I have NO IDEA how it got under her name in the server. I really didn't have a rock-solid case. I think I made the right choice by stepping out gracefully. Anyway, that's in the past now and I try not to think about it.

When a guy who used win2k server on his pc illegally for educational purposes , is going to take up his MCSE , isnt he paying all the cash back to MS ???? same case for photoshop . A designer , once he has learnt his skills through a copy of the s/w , will eventually work in an office with legal software , or even if he starts a business , will eventually buy the s/w . and next time a neat upgrade is released , u think he would switch to freeware or pay to upgrade ??? pay right ?...I still dont think companies are going to get bankrupt because a few teens all over india and a couple of other people are going to use pirated s/w .

You got a point, and certifying someone is not just a way of getting their money, but also a means of promoting the software. That's why you have even Linux certifications, dont you? But your logic is also a bit flawed. True, you get to work on legal software, properly licensed, when you get to work in a major MNC, but what happens when you freelance or get in as a sysadmin for a smaller startup? They get legal software, all right, but then do not ALWAYS get the proper number of site/client licenses for the computers they're installing the software on. So, the guy might get a 50-client Windows Server 2003 license and proceed to use that server to service more than 50 clients. That's piracy too. And while most software developers focus on their software being improperly used en masse in a corporate environment, they're slowly waking up to the fact that the maximum piracy occurs in the segment they ignored the most - the non-corporates, the individuals. Of course, they had a very valid reason that they very well couldn't go around nailing these people down to crucifixes, simply because of the fact that a SIGNIFICANT number of people using pirated software weren't simply aware of the fact. They ask their vendors to install software for them, and being newbies, have no idea as to whether their software is properly licensed or not.Which is exactly the logic why Microsoft was handing out legal Windows XP CDs for people who were using pirated copies of XP and were "tricked" into using them.

It isnt the end of the world when ur s/w gets pirated . If u want to sue the real culprits , SUE MS . arent they buying out smaller firms with gr8 software....Why has the european court ordered them to make Win without Media Player

No, its not the end of world. But it sure feels horrible when you've sat and programmed advanced functionality that nobody else is supporting and is it such a big thing to expect to get paid for your work? I'm pretty much an OSI/FSF guy myself and I hate a lot of what Microsoft does, but the root cause of all the cases against Microsoft can be summarized in three words - sheer professional jealousy. You think Linus Torvalds or the Chairmen of the Linux divisions of IBM and HP have anything against Microsoft and Windows? Definitely not. The case against Microsoft that resulted in the "Set Program Access and Defaults" tool was the court ruling (justifiably) that Microsoft was not allowing users to use the program of their choice without hindrance. Microsoft may have committed a lot of mistakes, but they've also given us great software till now and that's a fact you really can't look over, how much ever you want to.And they've even started slowly boarding the Open Source movement with the WiX and WTL releases on SourceForge. Heck, I think they should be commended for finally testing Open Source waters, instead of being pounced on like alligators that haven't fed in a decade. As for the argument about the companies being bought out, well, its not like they dont get a good price. If I ran such a company and I had a great tool that Microsoft wanted and they paid me an exorbitant price to buy me out, heck, I'd be happy, take the money, thank the heavens that my product is so popular (albeit under a different banner) and then work on some other project. When AOL took over Netscape, you think the guys ended up on the street? They got out, started Mozilla and look where they are now.

Software needs to become more reasonably priced. This will bring piracy down.

I can think of freeware alternatives for literally every single software you've listed there that get the job as good for the end-user. But the thing you're forgetting it is this: why is the software priced that way? Its not like the companies think of the highest arbitrary number as a price for their software. In fact, they try to price it "as low as possible" with a significant (not "phenomenal") profit margins. Take OpenOffice as a freeware alternative to Microsoft Office. When it comes to the end-user, it can do everything Microsoft Office does, from composing love letters to mail merge. Then why do people need Microsoft Office in the first place, you ask? Why is Office 2003 priced at around 10k? Because that's not all Office can do. From handling centralized access to all documents, to providing a single-window access to all user files and projects on a project, to coordinate with the entire team on a project via the SharePoint portal, integrating workflows with shared Calendars, Tasks and mails and memos via Outlook and Exchange Server, take your pick. The true power of Office is revealed in such an environment and it is THIS what you pay for. The ability to make all this possible. How many users do you know use these functionality. I've seen every other program except Word (or maybe FrontPage) sleep uselessly on the user's computer. So, while you fork out 10k, you get all of this in one package. Ask the guy that uses all of these features and he will tell you that its cheap for its price. For a guy that needs Word to compose single-page letters and uses Excel 2000 to play the DevHunter game, its obviously pricey. The same can be applied to any other tool that costs a lot - from Adobe Creative Suite to Macromedia Studio MX to what not.

Where it is sort of unavoidable. When one already spends a lot for the hardware, one can't afford to spend another 5k for the OS.

That's the problem with most people. They look at the OS as software and being totally disconnected from the computer system itself. They ask, "Oh, I paid 45k for the computer, and you mean I got to pay 5k more for the OS." Give them a computer with no OS or some flavor of Linux and see them come back and complain "5k more? I just spent 45k on the computer, you think I cant pay another 5k? I'd rather pay than suffer with this." That's inevitably what you hear with a newbie. I always tell people to look at the OS as part of the computer itself, not as a separate, optional entity.

Quote:
Software needs to become more reasonably priced. This will bring piracy down. But eliminate it ? Never. As long as there is something to be broken people will do so.


...that's right too, unfortunately. But atleast we can do our bit. Smile

Exactly! That's what I said before. No point in trying to change the world, but we can atleast try to stick to a set of principles and then actually follow them. Like DKant said it so well - just doing our bit to prevent it.

As for the rape thing, I was not trying to be an inconsiderate clod. As DKant rightly pointed out, I was merely using it as an analogy or a metaphor, and how both were a crime, no matter how it was stated, not literally. I never put in any "descriptions" or "details", merely using alternate terms for the same thing. I apologize if it has upset anyone. I have a girlfriend and a Mom too, and I'm not really a chavunistic, insensitive person.

 

[klinux]

well regarding the first para : and does any organisation respect u for the decision u made and praise u for it ??? anyone going to call u a team player now ??? u as an individual still feel bad thinking abt it right ??? u got rights too u know , that u can protect . heck , if people went abt worrying abt society and making their life decisions , based on what society wants or what society feels is good , idea of individual wouldnt exists . u arent a drone in a hive , rather citizen in a democracy . it might sound corny , but its ironic that people would talk and do so much for freedom of software , where as the real place where freedom should be maintained and fought for , LIFE , we just tend to give up . what makes u think that fighting for what was rightfully urs makes u a bad person and other companies wouldnt take u in ??? . is corporate india that dishonest or criminally inclined that no one does any honest work . we ridicule ppl in the US for suing over silly things , apart from things that are important , but we seem to let go of our rights too easily . rnt there any cyber / IT forensic labs in india which could have probably traced the files . or even a simple security program . ??? anyways i think we usually let go of these things and the next guy who finds himself in the same predicament , will probably do the same , koz no one ever stood up in the first place . its sad , but thats the situation .



well regarding the second para : smaller corporates are a target of firms like MS and others . we had a case of radiant tech in chennai , being charged with piracy a few years back . there werent that big , in fact i think they were just into teaching new tech . But this thread specifically targets individual users , which in any case wont make a big diff to the corps anyway . other companies which profited from piracy might have to pay heavy fines and they probably will be able too . but what abt the individual ? u really think MS is gonna target individuals ? if that was the case , they would have done it long back . when they themselves are not so forceful on people , i cant understand y the guy who started this wants people to confess a supposed crime in his view .

regarding 3rd para : what abt the remaining developers and companies , the ones which giants crush out and steal s/w from and dont pay off , koz giants can afford good lawyers ??? if ur bought out fine , if ur kicked , beaten and screwed outta ur business , because giants can hire sharks , thats bad right ??? i think even real media sued ms for windows media player . already we have trouble brewing between MS and Symantec koz of MS acquiring anti virus softwares . isnt this tactic of MS hurting other software players ? Free s/w like firefox might have an advantage , but paid s/w like norton will eventually suffer and lose business koz of MS .

regarding the Office 2003 issue : couldnt MS give away a cheaper version of the office utility without the fancy addons or the extended features , built for corporates ??? even MS knows their products are too pricey for asian countries , thats y they give discounts on it . giant firms will always try to get max outta their product , especially if they are in a monopoly . Normally boycotting the product itself would bring the price down (as we have seen in the past with isps ) , but here in asia , s/w sharing is a means by which they actually have the same effect . So what we know now is MS can actually give out their bloated s/w + support for a lower price .

 

[goobimama]

Isnt it just MORE of a hassle to keep up the act of piracy, rather than just get a original, turn on Automatic Updates and just sit back?

Why would one have to turn off automatic updates? This is India baba. nothing happens. And no microsoft anti piracy guy will enter my gate without a punch in the face....

Also, right now I am in a very fragile state of mind. I am not sure of my career, whether its going to be graphics design, animation, web design, 3D arts, all that whatnot. You don't expect me to buy legal software of Photoshop, dreamweaver, Flash, 3ds Max and all others just to try out which field I am best in. Maybe when I settle into my ultimate weapon of choice, I will think of buying original copy (but the price has got to come down....35k for photoshop? zaina re)

--------------
*www.rollaword.com/firefoxsig.jpg
Rollaword.com

 

[klinux]

@goobi : aim for 3d graphics . as far as i know , with so many tv channels , it seems a good option . side by side , keep ur skills with graphics and animation tools sharp too . first few years of any career will always be confusing . Once u step one foot inside the arena ( now i know why aptech named it arena ) , u will start to get an idea on whats the future scope and where ur skills / potential really lies , slowly u can move towards that goal and within 2-3 years u can have a gr8 career . but best thing is to learn most of the things now and start experimenting and using ur creativity to the max now , as u have the freedom and time and as i can see the s/w too . once ur into a job , u might feel restricted . so sharpen skills now to make it easier for the future.

wouldnt hurt if u tried out Open Source alternatives too man . Not saying give up on paid s/w , but learning a bit more with stuff like blender in open source / linux , wont hurt , and will be added advantage for u . Animation companies initially used linux only as servers to render graphics , now they might be switching over to linux apps too .

Ok this brings me to another question . We have such a HUGE labour force in IT and anything computers . U guys think this would have been possible if there were NO copied s/w available here in india ??? I mean guys working in most Tech MNCs would have graduated , lets say 4 years back , when use of copied s/w was higher . If everyone had to pay for , say , visual studio and the other s/w , including MS OS , would we still have such a huge force with so many people skilled in so many platforms ???

"In their End User Licensing Agreement, you agree that the company can look at files on your hard drive and take screen shots of what's happening on your computer and send them back to the company, which is just ridiculous," she observed.

*technewsworld.com/story/40777.html

 

[KHUBBU]

I use pirated coz original is :
1. costly
2. not easily available
3. I cannot share it with my friends.
4. I cannot resell it after I have used it.
5. Doesnt have reasonanble vfm ( for eg even if i use original i wud have to download patches, fixes. ideally MS shud compensate for the bandwith, internet usage costs to their loyal cusomers.
6. To teach these companies that they cant charge extraordinary prices for anything they sell. They have to bring down the prices.
7. Read the license agreement of Spybot S&D. ( really inspiring !)

Now really MS is not really bothered whether home users r using copied version, bcoz already they r charging high prices from others which more than compensates them.

If u r using legal, thats absolutely alright and u can and u wud and u shud (maybe) call us whatever u want. No problem.

No hard feelings.
We r all Indians.

Three cheers for the "Indian" or I may say "ASIAN" version of the softwares.

Hip Hip Hurray
Hip Hip Hurray
Hip Hip Hurray

 

[parthbarot]

some one told abt to find a freeware options...

but can tell me that he/she has any freeware option for these softs?

1.photoshop CS
2.MS Visio
3.Rational Rose
4.Flashget (best thing ok?)
5.anonymous browsing App.
6.Alcohol 120%
7.Nero (ok free version with Lg... but if nero 6.0
then?)
8.Jet Audio 6.0 PLUS
9.MusicMatch 8.8 or latest...
10.Soundforge
11.DivX (bcs some movies r not running in XviD
ok? properly)
12.OnSpeed
13.Kazaa++ Klite
14.eXim
15.VCDCutter
16.Xing MPEG player/Encoder
17.Power DVD 4.0 & Above
18.eDonkey
19.MS Visual Studio 6.0 & MS VS .NET (for windows
ofcourse)
20.PE Explorer

And many more i doesnt remember at this time bcs not writing this from my home ok? thats why i say
"----- indians r intelligent bcs they use everything latest in the market,any lang,soft etc... they find it handy so they learn more & more-----"

piracy is best for programmers & students...

bad for Microsoft...(only?)

i think no one is pure "RAJA HARISH CHANDRA" ok?

& if there is any good freewware optins available then plz suggest it...

regards....

 

[klinux]

As far as i know

flashget : leechget
development tools : zope , jdk etc ( i aint into s/w so not sure )
Music : Winamp
Video Players : zoom player , global divx player , virtual dub flaskmpeg ( from ur siggy )
Burning tools : Check out chip feb issue , they got plenty

I know most people know that their using copied stuff knowingly , But if u give a guy some alternative free s/w , hopefully he might just take it up .

 

[Maverick340]

Waow!

 

[Maverick340]

I am thinking o0f changing my name to amanhaslearnt...
Hey seriously any way of changing my username?Getting bore of this stupid one!?

 

[ctrl_alt_del]

eXeem is free as long as you can bear with the ads. That goes out for any other freeware versions as well, say like DAP 7.

 

[icecoolz]

Here are the freeware alternatives that I am aware of :

1.photoshop CS - GIMP available for windows
2.MS Visio - DIA found here (*linux.tucows.com/preview/49933.html)
3.Rational Rose - Free ware alternative here (*argouml.tigris.org/). However we at our office use a much cheaper alternative called Enterprise architect from Sparx Systems. We use Rational too but found it way too expensive. I suggested EA and its been implemented.
4.Flashget (best thing ok?) Absoultely the best. Try Mass downloader too. Works for most files.
5.anonymous browsing App. - A lot of them are out there for free. Just google it !
6.Alcohol 120% - Daemon tools.
7.Nero (ok free version with Lg... but if nero 6.0
then?) - CDBurnerXP
8.Jet Audio 6.0 PLUS - VLC Player
9.MusicMatch 8.8 or latest... - too many to list!
10.Soundforge
11.DivX (bcs some movies r not running in XviD
ok? properly) - They all run in XViD as long as you have the proper codecs. XviD with AC3 is just awesome.
12.OnSpeed - Dont know
13.Kazaa++ Klite - Shareaza
14.eXim - ExeemLite (beta right now)
15.VCDCutter - VirtualDub
16.Xing MPEG player/Encoder - Virtual Dub and TMpegEnc
17.Power DVD 4.0 & Above - Windows Media Player man!
18.eDonkey - Emule Plus
19.MS Visual Studio 6.0 & MS VS .NET (for windows
ofcourse) - no idea
20.PE Explorer - no idea either!

enoonmai:

I just listed out the freeware alternatives which you suggested. However I clearly mentioned in my post that I am not looking at freeware only at the most popularly used ones. And hence the list. Just look at the post by parthbarot and the softwares he has mentioned and see how many he is comfortable using which are actually not freeware. Most users are in ths catagory and either thru familiarity or simply because its the the most popular one they all want the same thing.

As far as software pricing is concerened if there are freeware alternatives available or every proprietary software out there then why do they cost so much ? Take photoshop for example. It costs around 650$ and then theres GIMP which is freeware and is supposed to be as capable as Photopshop. Now dont you think the price difference is a little too much ?

Do a corporate survey of the no of users who use the advanced features of office such as itegration into sharepoint portal and so on and you will see that it hardly accounts for the 10% of the general population. I spent a year and a half working for the Portal giant and I know the above information since I spent so much time in collateral reserach work. Sharepoint is hardly used by 10% of the portal users. There are way better portal soultions. Why would I buy sharepoint portal for a whopping 200000 $ where in I can get Oracle's significantly better portal solution for just 20000 $ ? Office can do a lot of the said stuff agreed however why would I buy it if I dont use it ? I really dont have a choice do I ?

And Enoomai I seriously think you should have taken it up with higher ups with regards to getting your code stolen. Somethings in life are worth it.

 

[ujjwal]

if there are freeware alternatives available or every proprietary software out there then why do they cost so much

Companies do take advantage of familiarity. Ask a home user, used to photoshop, to try out GIMP, and he will immediately say no. The same goes for trying out linux. The reason being, on their first experience with computers, home users are taught this -

1. To start the computer, press the on switch, wait for the windows logo to dissapear.
2. To use the internet, click the blue 'e'.
3. To edit images, go to Start > Photoshop > Whatever, and use the drawing tools like this.

How many people learnt using computers by experimenting around, seeing pressing what button does what?

If an average user was put in a linux system, with (say) the fluxbox GUI. The first thing he would say, would be "where is the start menu?".

On the contrary, an absolute first time computer user would be just as comfortable in a unix shell as in windows.

This is what has hurt linux, and other free software the maximum. Companies do make sure that users of their software get used to it very quickly, and are unable to adjust to other software.

 

[Yoda]

I use some of the above listed highly priced softwares.

Not even TRIAL but FULL RETAIL

I even hate Trial versions now. I prefer always Full or Retail versions.

But only for my presonal use.

Thats always OK.

Freewares can never replace them.

 

[Dipen01]

*img148.exs.cx/img148/6959/ohgodwhy7me.jpg

hey buddy

thats nice wallpaper.. can u mail me that pic of a kid without the text to dipen01@gmail.com... ill be really greatful to you...

anyways... cheers... Dipen