Ford Foundation and its alleged CIA connections

Status
Not open for further replies.

GhorMaanas

The Vagrant Seeker
reminds of MKG's quote - "i would've been a christian, if not for the christians."

sometime back, even the 'wife' of the PM had been visited by an Indian & a foreigner lady missionaries, to assure her of their 'support' to her in her grievances against the govt., and was invited by them to Mumbai for a visit to their organisation to learn more about their works. following the photo-ops session, the pastor clarified that this was no 'conversion' attempt.
these people should be dealt with tactfully, and tit-for-tat. propaganda should be countered with spreading awareness through AV media overwhelmingly, disrobing them at every step. this has been an acute failing of our govt.s which shouldn't be overlooked anymore.
 

gemini90

Journeyman
AS for the larger picture, have a look at this - Courtesy of one learned fellow

The events of the past few years, especially the months after Modi sarkar was born has been anything but interesting for the country.
The way the major English TV Channels, some journalists, some intellectuals and some elites are painting a narration that is dangerous to the stability of the country. And it is inevitable that the nexus need to be analyzed by all of us from several layers and angles. We can only scratch the tip of the iceberg in these conversations.

What is being done?
Multiple smaller narratives are being painted of a dysfunctional India. These narratives are on Indian traditions, Indian people, Indian government, Indian institutions, Hinduism, Majority and last but not the least Modi. The narration is nothing knew that India has seen in the last few hundred years. What sets the current set of narrations different from the recent past is the shorter time frame, consolidation of various narrations to paint a utterly dysfunctional India.

Who is doing it?
There is no one monolithic entity machining the entire sequence of events. Each entity feeds of opportunities presented and efforts of the each other. These entities do not have be related, however the nexus of Media, NGO, politicians, elites, intellectuals, business houses, missionaries, foreign powers, power brokers need to be considered. The nefarious elements need grassroots support and they use individuals who believe in simplistic ideologies and distressed people. Considering the size of India, and its history in the last few hundred years, there are plenty of people who can be exploited and converted into brown sepoys.

Why are they doing it?
While the nexus between these "breaking India forces" {Borrowing Rajiv Malhotra's terms} is interesting and illuminating from certain angles; from other angles the relationship between the entities do not matter. Some of the entities grouped as "breaking India forces" could be gullible themselves and could be treading their path because of certain ideologies that they think are paramount. For example some NGOs who bring attention to the externalities of businesses and the effect on environment. A media house might be against Modi government simply because they do not like him, while other media houses are interested in TRP rating. Bashing Modi gets the eyes of both Modi supporters and bashers. It is really that simple. An activist here or there might truly believe in saving the environment or a few hundred farmers or a dozen villages from 'modern development'. A politician might be just interested in holding on to his seat or getting new funds for his party and opportunities to climb up the political ladder. Missionaries care just for harvesting souls. Radical Mullahs might want to join the Global Jihad believing 'Islam katrae mein hain' {Islam is in danger}.

To me why they are doing it is less important than the effect of their activities.

Does it really matter?
So from a few angles if the nexus is not important, then do the activities of these entities really matter? If it all they matter, to whom does it matter? These are complex questions.

One entity's attack might not relate to another entity's attack; or that they might not even coordinate their attacks. However the various attacks have a snowball effect as they feed off the generated attention and energy and insert their agenda to get their own share of the limelight.

An attack might even seem logical to simple minded folks; and even if we accord genuine nationalistic reasons for an attack what is important is that each attack is connected to pull down India. For example an average man is likely to care for environment, is likely to be ignorant and scared of nuclear energy, furious at corruption and black money, cringe at some of the fanaticism from some Hindu groups and so on so forth. Hence an individual who cares for environment will give the benefit of doubt to activists attacking the government. An uninformed Christian might truly be scared of the Church 'attacks' and join forces with mischief mongers. An common man frustrated with corruption might side with a party that is bent upon pushing India towards anarchy. So from their vantage points these individuals think India (and Modi government) are rightly questioned and feel they are exercising the freedom accorded in democracy and take pride in doing so.

To a farmer suffering from the burden of loans, conversion hardly is important. To a Christian who perceives imaginary threats, environment hardly matters. A Muslim concerned about Islam, might be worried when a Hindu swami speaks up for Hinduism. To an individual who values freedom of expression, might construe monitoring NGOs and activists as illegal.

So these individual attacks do not matter by themselves. However none of these individuals, in our discussion, live in a vacuum. They are constantly bombarded about the dysfunction in the country. Instead of hope and opportunities that Modi and his government have ushered in; these individuals lose sight of the true changes; they start believing in the negative narratives. And ultimately when these forces join, the end result is frustration and anger - conditions that are ripe to be further utilized by breaking India forces to further their agenda.

In the next elections, people can opt for a different political party and currently only Modi seems to be the best person to lead the country. BJP without Modi is ineffective. Ineffective governments do not take care of the country, leaving it at the mercy of nefarious forces. A strong country is a country that can take care of its people.

An argument that is often placed is that the English media is watched by only a few millions when the total population is in billion. What can a few elites do? How effective can two or three activists do? What harm can an intellectual do? These individuals and institutions are connected domestically and internationally. They help magnify a mole hill as a mountain; and Indians overtime start believing these narratives.

What can be done?
Each of the entities that collude or indirectly cause the negative narrative can be terminated. But that is a long road with numerous political, legal, ethical and civilizational challenges. It is not easy to rein in the rogue media, missionaries, foreign powers, radicals etc. Neither can India wage a war against its own people (gullible who have been sucked in) or Institutions that have been subverted. For example closing down NDTV has enough challenges; and NDTV will go down kicking and screaming with blood all over the floor.

As BRF has discussed so often in the past, only a superior and effective counter narrative is the answer.

I used to think rather simply that a rich businessman should realize the opportunity to create a media house that is nationalistic, pro-Hindu and create it. Really how difficult it is, right? There exists a gap that can be filled. But from the perspective of the businessman, if all he wants to make is money then India offers enough loopholes in its systems for him to make easy money. Why does he have to struggle and invite attention. It is trouble when one invites attention, unless the attention helps. A corrupt businessman knows the system to exploit the conditions and continue to make money.

Turning to individuals who value their traditions and parampara; they either do not have the necessary money and influence to create a narrative. Or, they create smaller narratives per their traditions. True to its historical behavior, India allows these narrations to exist and only interested people follow the activities of these individuals. Any TV channel or media started by these people reach limited audience.

So what is the answer?

I propose that to tackle multiple negative narratives, we need multiple positive narratives. Instead of defending any indefensible policies, activities of the government, instead of banging the heads against the breaking forces; time could be spent in creating smaller positive narratives.

Self organizing task forces with people who are passionate or expert in a particular field have to start generating true positive news of India. It is important that it is about India and not about Modi. For example, experts in Health sector can create positive narrative on the reduction in infant mortality rates, increase in life expectancy etc. Experts in agriculture could talk about the enormous development in irrigation, modern technique employed by farmers, ISRO's efforts to help monitor various natural resources. Experts in sociology can counter the 'rape' narrative that is being painted. Experts on infrastructure should give a narrative of the usefulness of infrastructure and energy projects.

Truth matters, and ultimately people are impacted by their experiences. While countering people on SM is fine and also SM is useful tool to rally people; narratives have to be created outside the SM sphere by people from all walks of life who care about the country. Unless people step up, they cannot save themselves. However one of the vehicles, media, to disseminate this narration is surely breached. Suitable vehicle needs to be identified and created. Dharmo Rakshati Rakshitah.
 

GhorMaanas

The Vagrant Seeker
another case in point regarding propaganda - the brouhaha and rudaali over letting the LAB remain L(anti-)AB. now that Shekhar Coupta has tweeted that the new upcoming re-re-revised LAB is much better, perhaps the tormented souls will find some solace? not very likely, given the fact that the promises of development that the PM had made to the people require land, no opposition party would like to see him be able to fulfill them. antidote? a superior and damning PR campaign to rip-off the scare-mongering tactics!

recently came across a new interesting definition of an 'intellectual' - 'one who can chalantly or non-chalantly protest over both, the power plants as well as the power cuts, with impunity & without any sense of irony!'
 
Last edited:

gemini90

Journeyman
Nepal Earthquake - You will have to search through gutters to find such cretins -

Kanchan Gupta @KanchanGupta · 3h 3 hours ago

Another swine looking for trough. “@laveypj: Already our mission workers are there to help the people and tell them the goodness of Jesus.India is in need of knowing true God."

Just like they did after tsunami

Kanchan Gupta @KanchanGupta · 3h 3 hours ago

Suddenly swines all over. “@GlobalOutfittrs: Nepal rocked by magnitude 7.9 quake, fatalities certain. May they find Jesus' love & strength."

While the Indian Gov is working hard to provide relief sending 14 NDRF teams, C-17 , C-130.

PMO India retweeted
Narendra Modi @narendramodi · 12m 12 minutes ago

Spoke to PM Sushil Koirala, who is in transit in Bangkok on his way to Kathmandu. Assured all support & assistance during this tough time.

MOD Spokesperson: Indian Army Team in Mount Everest Area is safe and will now conduct rescue operations.
 
Last edited:

beingGamer

In the zone
Well, the last time i visited my village in Bundelkhand, i saw posters regarding a community meeting to be held at the mela ground in the area. Expecting festivities, i went their with my cousins. What happened was totally unexpected. 3 foreigners (2 women, 1 man) + support team comprising of indians was present there. A statue of mary and jesus in a similar vein like this -> India protests over 'tribal' Virgin Mary and baby Jesus - BBC News

was present. They started off by putting forward a few of those indians to speak about their personal problems and how jesus, and by extension, the church has helped them overcome those problems. Meanwhile others from their group started approaching people individually.Then 1 foreign lady took up the mike started speaking in hindi (to my surprise) and spoke about the miracles of jesus + about a new church being constructed in the area and how it will be open to all, whether christians or not. On asking mu cousins, he told me that this is a monthly activity. Rest of the times, missionaries visit the household in the afternoon when men are at work in the fields to try and convince the womenfolk about their objectives. In similar vein to the saying that educating a women teaches the whole family. You get the idea, don't you? the pastor in church and missionaries also provide cheap loans + and other monetary help (like what happened after the tsunami last decade).

This is just one way how they mix up the local customs with their own religion to make it not seem as anything alien. Just like how we have christian yoga these days.

Reality is, in 2-3 years GOI has to solve ALL problems with FCRA so that they can start addressing the other routes. They need to probably amend laws to an extent where no money is allowed to Indian NGOs from abroad.

These donors have become experts at funneling money into India. BAM (business as mission) is their next frontier. You will realize that dealing with FCRA is child's play compared to dealing with BAM. There are dozens of american EJ investors who fund Indian x-ngos to start a company. So it will no more be an NGO, it will be a business. So it will be classified as FDI for business and will not be under the purview of the charitable donations act or FCRA. Only difference in this case is they will pay corporate tax.

So, EJ investors will provide Indian EJ's with seed capital to start businesses (can be as simple as a taxi service to a retail store), donate a portion of the ensuing profit to Indian x-tian ngos. So this will be totally out of the purview of the FCRA act since the ngo is receiving money from an Indian startup which in turn has given a part of its equity to an EJ investor abroad. So how on earth will Indian GOI go around monitoring this.

There is a solution though, a full blown anti conversion law (forced/voluntary), meaning no more freedom of religion in India. Now that can only be done if we have 10 more years of a Right Wing GOI. Only good news is that BAM is just taking shape, I have come across several cases of BAM, but its not a flood. But the more GOI tightens FCRA, more BAM money will come. But that will be 10 years from now before it reaches new highs, by then an anti conversion law is a must.

- - - Updated - - -

About that video, the excerpts of missionaries in their is not for our consumption. It is for the western public and entities who give financial support. I have met an old missionary during his journey to India, he had grown up with his parents (who were missionaries) in India. He was grandfather now, and his children also do mission work. There are many such families in Europe, totally dedicated to this path of converting Indians (even though local church attendance is record low).

As to why the western states give tacit support to this system, well that will be hitting the heart of the problem, namely use of religion for political means. For eg, the role of Bishop and cardinals during italian marine incident where they killed indian fishermen in indian waters.

Pick up the niyogi committee report - VINDICATED BY TIME - The Niyogi Committee Report

or books by Arun Shourie - Harvesting Our Souls or Missionaries in India. , By Rajiv Malhotra and few others and you will see what is happening away from our glare.

...................................................................................................

By the way, do you remember an incident which took in Haryana where the local people demolished a church in rural area. Exactly what was the need for a church in an area where according to census, not a single christian soul was present withing miles.

[MENTION=56202]Anorion[/MENTION]
This *www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHKjAADTaG8

Its the same ARARARARARARARA moment which was mentioned in this video - *www.youtube.com/watch?v=anQv44EHGsw
 

GhorMaanas

The Vagrant Seeker
he's prashant bhushan, an SC lawyer and former AAP member (ie, if you were referring to him; remember his statement from 2013, about referendum in Kashmir?). although he also tends to be a borderline celebrity activist (in that, with getting cosy with the actual ones), which comprises of those who have developed their own cottage-industries out of Modi-bashing (like how he's harping here on the popular-propaganda of Adani receiving cheap [barren] land, using the pet-term of 'krantikaris' - 'crony capitalists' in his comments, while comfortably sleeping over the fact that the congress had sold a chunk of land at Andaman for 2p./sq. ft. or something). but why was he incensed is not clear....must be because the PM 'dared' to advise deva-avataars on earth from Indrapuram. Justice Dattu later on in his speech said something like the Judges of India are still headstrong and not to be influenced by partisan views. by all means, i believe the PM was referring to those 'activists' that his state govt. had close brushes with for more than a decade, and whom the country is suffering since quite some time. the closely-knit cronies here comprise of (but not limited to):

*i.imgur.com/dAMGLRMm.jpg

*i.imgur.com/exAV0Vmm.jpg

*i.imgur.com/FiMVqCum.jpg

*i.imgur.com/pc1zjl2m.jpg

*i.imgur.com/g9pK6eVl.jpg
(celebrity activist poseur, enjoying delicious paraatha and kadak chaay served by chhotu, after a day of heavy work shooting a documentary over child labour problem, and giving profound insights)

*i.imgur.com/05c18bnl.jpg
(budding celebrity activist, soon to join the valiant 'krantikari' brigade)

many more there, like aruna roy, vrinda grover, etc., etc.

there is no gender bias and discrimination in this coterie. many males too there, prafull bidwai, etc., and includes many already established and budding activists from bollywood too.

some characteristics of celebrity activists are the varying sizes of bindis, dishevelled hair or/and attire, high decibel levels, very choosy on 'projects', etc.

and then there are some like Baba Amte and Prakash Amte, and a surgeon working with them since his early days and treating tribal folk for 1-2 paisa, a 'gora' who runs an NGO and builds toilets for womenfolk all with his own money, Mr. Kailash Satyarthi, a gentleman in South India who runs an NGO to feed the mentally destitute in his city after he left his work for this and personally goes and feeds them with his hands, an NGO/start-up in Kolkata by a few youth who collect left-over food from homes and functions in the city and organise lunch/dinner for the needy at a makeshift hall, many unsung ones, who don't hog the limelight (for all the wrong reasons). the difference in these and the ones with the 'kaanta laga' ailment listed above would be amply clear.
 
Last edited:

Anorion

Sith Lord
Staff member
Admin
this is like playing connect the dots without the numbers, you can paint any picture you like
 

gemini90

Journeyman
How I am painting a picture when he is very clear with what he means? Isn't his message shows sanction for conversions from vatican itself unlike it being some fringe elements work which is the favorite theory of many secularists?
 

Anorion

Sith Lord
Staff member
Admin
not just you, the whole cluster of arguments and whataboutisms that is forcing silence and obedience on the sickularists. what is wrong with secularism suddenly.
don't care much for religion, but this particular pope is a role model for human beings
 

gemini90

Journeyman
Woh! You call a pope who makes such calls to his followers as a role model for human beings? Who trys to convert people in deep crisis rather than giving selfless service? Now you must know what is wrong with secularism when on the other hand they are the first call RSS nazis and fascists and Ghar Vapsi an evil and against the ideas enumerated by constitution.

And this is not the first time this call has been made by a pope. The last time a pope John Paul 2 visited India in 1999, he made a similar call, calling India fertile for conversions.

As twitter shows, #SoulVultures is apt term to decribe the whole lot of them.

And frankly, i don't have any problems with normal christians who themselves hardly visit the churches any more. it's the above lot which makes my blood boil - the clergy
 
Last edited:

Anorion

Sith Lord
Staff member
Admin
I donno what is so threatening about this. This country, it's people, and culture have withstood and survived millenia of assault, and we are worried about it now?
Is it anti-national to be worried that the government may make mistakes and prioritize wrong?
 

gemini90

Journeyman
It is a threat to demographics and culture of our country and at the same time a threat to our nation's sovereignty. And both can be illustrated and have been illustrated with examples in this thread previously.

- - - Updated - - -

Proselytization needs to be regulated with clear dos and donts in the same manner that freedom of expression, advertising etc are regulated with clear dos and donts in every region of the world (including in that "bastion" of individual freedom - the US of A).

Don't know why its so hard for some folks to grasp this fairly simple concept.
 

sling-shot

Wise Old Owl
The biggest fallacy is that another religion is a cure for all the social ills. There is no cure. As long as there is man (human being) there will be social ills.

Going from there, consider everything people are doing to get others to convert into their religion. One most common argument put forth is that of untouchables in Hinduism. I consider that untouchability as a practice was introduced because of difference in hygiene habits between them and the others. I do not touch a muddied person before he has taken bath from my own family let alone a stranger. On the contrary I have friends from such groups with whom I have shared a meal plate as their habits are sufficiently clean or better than mine.

Then the question of caste system. Caste system was not initially social, it was professional. If you study closely, at least Islam and Christianity both seem to have a caste system at times equally strict or not so much but still there. Groups have separate places of worship, do not mix well and sometimes even kill each other.

So all in all are they actually doing anything good for the people at all? They are only replacing one form of social evil with another.

So what is left is purely either political motive for the conversions or financial gains for those doing it/supporting it.

And all the so called ills plaguing our society could have been solved better with good education and time instead of increasing strife polarisation.

Hence the dislike for conversion.
 
Last edited:

gemini90

Journeyman
Imagine if Hindus burned down a symbolic church, what the uproar would be, how many resolutions from parliaments and congresses of western nations would be directed against India.

The front page New York Times story is how a 75-foot pagan temple was built to be burned, to unite the Protestants and Catholics of Ireland.

Healing Fire in Londonderry: The Temple Was Built to Burn

*www.nytimes.com/2015/03/28/world/europe/using-flames-to-soothe-a-northern-ireland-city-scarred-by-fire.html

This morning it seemed to me "Christianity unmasked" - "love Jesus" can't unite the Catholics and Protestants of Ireland, but "burn the pagan temple" can!

And this is the ideology that innumerable groups with limitless funding are seeking to spread through out Asia and Africa, under the cover of "religious freedom" and to the detriment of local cultures everywhere.
 

sling-shot

Wise Old Owl
People are asking what is wrong with conversions.

Well for one thing I would never like our country to be ruled by religious zealots who do not respect individual freedom.
Would they like to live in a place like ISIS ruled areas? That is what is wrong with conversion because it may lead to that.

RSS is so commonly criticised in media and by people. I too do not like somethings about them. But I am able to reason with them which would not be possible in the example above.
And the principles of RSS as far as I have seen from the behavior of a few is to eradicate the social evils such as untouchability and caste system. They treat everyone equally and also do a lot of social service in times of crisis.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom