Aadhaar related news and discussion

[Anorion]

1. It is my choice whether to use a smartphone or not, what I feed into it, and whether I can choose for biometric authentication. Aadhaar does not give these option. The first option of choosing Aadhaar itself is not there.
2. Aadhaar can be used for mass surveillance. There is almost no other useful function a national biometric database accomplishes. It is not good enough for authentication purposes because no biometrics system in the world is 100% accurate. Smartphone biometrics are stored on the device itself. Once compromised, biometrics are compromised for life. All this requires is a high resolution image of your finger.

 

[billubakra]

Seems, you can link your mobile# via UIDAI site itself.
*resident.uidai.gov.in/verify-email-mobile

Your number and email needs to be linked with the card at the time of registration to link phone via that link. Most of the people don't have that linked, the centers usually mark not applicable there.

 

[whitestar_999]

1. It is my choice whether to use a smartphone or not, what I feed into it, and whether I can choose for biometric authentication. Aadhaar does not give these option. The first option of choosing Aadhaar itself is not there.
2. Aadhaar can be used for mass surveillance. There is almost no other useful function a national biometric database accomplishes. It is not good enough for authentication purposes because no biometrics system in the world is 100% accurate. Smartphone biometrics are stored on the device itself. Once compromised, biometrics are compromised for life. All this requires is a high resolution image of your finger.

Correct but you might have read this proverb "you reap what you sow". India,a country of 1.2billion people & 6th largest economy in the world on nominal gdp basis,has less than 80million tax payers on record.Aadhaar arose out of this mess only,case in point being fake PAN cards available for few hundred rupees & fake ration cards even more so.

You say it is not good enough for authentication but facts say otherwise(just because something is not 100% doesn't mean we should not use it at all if pros outweigh cons,you can ask your friends how many of then faced biometric authentication issues during jio sim purchase).Aadhaar biometrics are never stored outside of central Aadhaar database which no external agency has access to(incl govt own agencies) & till now it has never been breached.Sure there is a possibility that it can be breached but there is also another thing called "diminishing rate of returns". It is far more easier & worth it to breach India's defence communication network or power grids or stock markets compared to breaching a biometric database of 1.2billion people(do you even know the size & bandwidth required to carry out such an attack?Aadhaar database is projected to reach 15 petabytes & will only increase thereafter).

We live in real world,not Mission Impossible world where someone will put a "high resolution image of fingerprint & cornea" over their real fingers & cornea along with a very similar face mask to authenticate themselves as us to open a bank account or buy a sim card or get govt subsidy meant for poor people.Now why would anybody do that I fail to understand because in MI world such things are done to steal top secret nuclear launch codes or humanity killer viruses.

 

[Anorion]

Not saying core biometrics have to be breached, its trivially simple to breach biometrics on individual level.

Michigan professor 3D-printed murder victim's fingers to help police unlock dead man's phone. Not MI, it has happened, and is possible. 3D printing technologies can replicate the optical and electrical properties of human fingers, using only a high resolution photograph. This technology can be abused for Aadhaar pay. If there is OTP used as a further step, the biometrics step is not required.

Essentially, there is no reason to build a national biometrics database at all, even if it is airgapped. As mentioned before, it has been done before, then the government in question, (UK) realised what a terrible idea it was.

Now there is option to delink biometrics from Aadhaar, but there is no option to sign up for Aadhaar without providing biometrics in the first place. That itself should indicate the intent of the authorities, and how the technology is going to be used against the people.

Goa police have used a fingerprint lifted from a toilet seat to nab a child abuser. This was despite the UIDAI indicating to the Supreme court that the database was not meant to be used in criminal investigations. A 0.057 percent false positive rate is likely to affect lakhs of residents in India, considering the population. The UIDAI itself has given this figure.

Now, if the UIDAI itself cannot guarantee that the database will be used what it was designed for, and the courts allow investigation agencies to abuse Aadhaar data despite the protest of the UIDAI itself, what kind of protection do the people of India have?

 

[billubakra]

Correct but you might have read this proverb "you reap what you sow". India,a country of 1.2billion people & 6th largest economy in the world on nominal gdp basis,has less than 80million tax payers on record.Aadhaar arose out of this mess only,case in point being fake PAN cards available for few hundred rupees & fake ration cards even more so.

You say it is not good enough for authentication but facts say otherwise(just because something is not 100% doesn't mean we should not use it at all if pros outweigh cons,you can ask your friends how many of then faced biometric authentication issues during jio sim purchase).Aadhaar biometrics are never stored outside of central Aadhaar database which no external agency has access to(incl govt own agencies) & till now it has never been breached.Sure there is a possibility that it can be breached but there is also another thing called "diminishing rate of returns". It is far more easier & worth it to breach India's defence communication network or power grids or stock markets compared to breaching a biometric database of 1.2billion people(do you even know the size & bandwidth required to carry out such an attack?Aadhaar database is projected to reach 15 petabytes & will only increase thereafter).

We live in real world,not Mission Impossible world where someone will put a "high resolution image of fingerprint & cornea" over their real fingers & cornea along with a very similar face mask to authenticate themselves as us to open a bank account or buy a sim card or get govt subsidy meant for poor people.Now why would anybody do that I fail to understand because in MI world such things are done to steal top secret nuclear launch codes or humanity killer viruses.

No offence brother but let me say few things, hope you don't mind. Fake voter cards are also easily available. Why isn't the government doing anything about it? They can link voter+aadhar card to minimize fake votes and stuff. But wait they won't do that, why because half of their votes will go away. Coming to less than 80mn tax payers. Let me tell you a basic difference between the IT situation in India and say in USA. There are slabs, say we pay abcd amount of tax, we get subsidies while buying a car, property or something else, free access to airport lounges, free medical facilities to name a few whereas in our country women and children who don't have this card are starving. If you buy a hybrid/electronic car in USA like a Tesla you get subsidies, whereas in India where from 2030 only electronic cars will be allowed on roads, the prices of Hybrid Camry increased 7-8 lakhs post GST and a person who could afford that car cannot even claim the ITC hence Toyota pulled Camry out of the Indian market. Moreover in other countries there is less corruption, people know that most of their tax paid money is going to be used for them, for their nation whereas here I don't think most people will agree. I am not against this card but to make this card mandatory in every sphere of life is complete bull. You cannot even leave this world without this card. Do you know that dogs, God's have this card too? Applaudable database.

P.S. Sarkari ecommerce website is selling this stuff
GeM | Products
I guess they want people to become Ethan Hunt.

 

[whitestar_999]

Not saying core biometrics have to be breached, its trivially simple to breach biometrics on individual level.

Michigan professor 3D-printed murder victim's fingers to help police unlock dead man's phone. Not MI, it has happened, and is possible. 3D printing technologies can replicate the optical and electrical properties of human fingers, using only a high resolution photograph. This technology can be abused for Aadhaar pay. If there is OTP used as a further step, the biometrics step is not required.

Essentially, there is no reason to build a national biometrics database at all, even if it is airgapped. As mentioned before, it has been done before, then the government in question, (UK) realised what a terrible idea it was.

Now there is option to delink biometrics from Aadhaar, but there is no option to sign up for Aadhaar without providing biometrics in the first place. That itself should indicate the intent of the authorities, and how the technology is going to be used against the people.

Goa police have used a fingerprint lifted from a toilet seat to nab a child abuser. This was despite the UIDAI indicating to the Supreme court that the database was not meant to be used in criminal investigations. A 0.057 percent false positive rate is likely to affect lakhs of residents in India, considering the population. The UIDAI itself has given this figure.

Now, if the UIDAI itself cannot guarantee that the database will be used what it was designed for, and the courts allow investigation agencies to abuse Aadhaar data despite the protest of the UIDAI itself, what kind of protection do the people of India have?

Again it is pros vs cons.Misusing Aadhaar pay vs saving thousands of crores,the latter outweighs the former.Also aadhaar pay can only be used at merchant shops & I fail to see the point of someone knowledgeable enough to misuse 3d printing technology to leave a clearly verifiable physical trail(aka CCTVs in/around shops & market area).

UK is not India,comparison of Apples to Oranges.UK doesn't need a biometric database because they already have a far more advanced surveillance system online as well as offline.
One surveillance camera for every 11 people in Britain, says CCTV survey
Of course it is a terrible idea for UK to create a national biometrics database when they can simply improve in other areas based on already existing infrastructure.Again to give example of diminishing return,it is far more easier & worth it to breach UK national biometrics database of around 60million compared to breaching 6 million CCTVs in a decentralised setup.

Anything can be used against people,if you can trust your democratically elected govt with nuclear weapons then I am pretty sure you can trust them with your biometrics too.What is the point of Aadhaar without biometrics when in India anybody can get any fake document by spending money accordingly?

Why should it be an issue if court allow investigative agency to use Aadhaar database?Again if you can't even trust your democratic country's judicial system then why are you even living here(in fact most people who leave India for US sing praises of US judicial system compared to India's "taareekh pe tareekh"). Just because lakhs of people will be affected you meant to say remaining hundreds of crores of people should bear the cost,it is neither right nor defendable in any court of law on its own.

There is no such thing as "absolute privacy" in a democracy as said by Supreme Court during recent hearing cases related to Aadhaar & it is,quite ironically,absolutely correct.If people fear govt so much in a democratic setup like India then that country is already doomed with or without Aadhaar.

 

[Flash]

..and don't forget Aadhar-like 12 digit IDs for cows.
Aadhaar cards for cows to cost govt Rs 148 crore: Is it a joke or are Narendra Modi's priorities really off? - Firstpost

 

[whitestar_999]

@billubakra maybe not now but in future Aadhaar may be used for weeding out fake voter ID card but one imaginary benefit not presently available is not reason enough to ignore current real benefits of a system.As for issue of so less tax payers,Indians love not to pay taxes as simple as that.
Indians are terrible at paying taxes. This is the data the finance minister presented to prove so

You talk about Toyota Camary but I know neighbourhood kiraanewallas running shops inside homes earning more than avg salaried person & still not paying taxes.Yes Aadhaar has its faults but on an average it is the only thing that can detect fake IDs or make people pay taxes in India.

 

[billubakra]

@billubakra maybe not now but in future Aadhaar may be used for weeding out fake voter ID card but one imaginary benefit not presently available is not reason enough to ignore current real benefits of a system.As for issue of so less tax payers,Indians love not to pay taxes as simple as that.
Indians are terrible at paying taxes. This is the data the finance minister presented to prove so
View attachment 17248
You talk about Toyota Camary but I know neighbourhood kiraanewallas running shops inside homes earning more than avg salaried person & still not paying taxes.Yes Aadhaar has its faults but on an average it is the only thing that can detect fake IDs or make people pay taxes in India.

In future maybe I will be the PM, who knows lol. Report presented by minister, sorry not my cup of tea then.
So, who is at fault the way those kiraanewallas are conducting their business and not paying taxes? Of course firstly they themselves, but then again check the IT comparisons I have posted above.

 

[chimera201]

What I don't understand is that the government is doing all sorts of things demonetization, GST, Aadhaar but does not do anything for the bigger problem that is overpopulation. Oh wait demonetization, GST, Aadhaar increases revenue for the government but population control does not.

 

[whitestar_999]

In future maybe I will be the PM, who knows lol. Report presented by minister, sorry not my cup of tea then.
So, who is at fault the way those kiraanewallas are conducting their business and not paying taxes? Of course firstly they themselves, but then again check the IT comparisons I have posted above.

Report presented by minister is from IT returns filed & passport clearances issues,you can get the same data by filing RTI.One can not compare developed nation with developing nation for IT & election matter,if you remember I told you in a previous post that in my state the person who won MLA election is on bail for allegedly killing his wife while his ex-minister father & mother are in jail for murdering the mistress of ex-minister father & still there family is the "most respected" in the area.People in India,by & large,think taxes as some form of punishment for honesty instead of seeing them as part of a country's foundation.If people are so worried about govt misusing taxes then how come openly corrupt politicians(lalu,jayalalitha,dhinakaran etc) keep winning elections. Modi is many things but nobody can claim a case of corruption against him with enough credibility to stand even an hour of argument in any court of law.I know those "whatsapp demonetization scam" messages but they are just that,not a single one of them will stand a scrutiny of even few minutes by any independent respected economist or judge.

One of the reasons why these "kiraanewallas" strongly oppose walmart stores in India(aka 100% FDI in retail) is because they know that Wallmart will at least pay all taxes which will compensate govt more than enough to forget about kiraanewallas hence the opposition to not even let them open stores in the first place.

 

[Anorion]

It's called "function creep". The government will find more ways to abuse and use Aadhaar, just because it is there.

Coercion and Silence Are Integral Parts of the Aadhaar Project

 

[billubakra]

Report presented by minister is from IT returns filed & passport clearances issues,you can get the same data by filing RTI.One can not compare developed nation with developing nation for IT & election matter,if you remember I told you in a previous post that in my state the person who won MLA election is on bail for allegedly killing his wife while his ex-minister father & mother are in jail for murdering the mistress of ex-minister father & still there family is the "most respected" in the area.People in India,by & large,think taxes as some form of punishment for honesty instead of seeing them as part of a country's foundation.If people are so worried about govt misusing taxes then how come openly corrupt politicians(lalu,jayalalitha,dhinakaran etc) keep winning elections. Modi is many things but nobody can claim a case of corruption against him with enough credibility to stand even an hour of argument in any court of law.I know those "whatsapp demonetization scam" messages but they are just that,not a single one of them will stand a scrutiny of even few minutes by any independent respected economist or judge.

One of the reasons why these "kiraanewallas" strongly oppose walmart stores in India(aka 100% FDI in retail) is because they know that Wallmart will at least pay all taxes which will compensate govt more than enough to forget about kiraanewallas hence the opposition to not even let them open stores in the first place.

Tripathi is respected because he has the $$'s and hence power+he is a politician so he is also a vip.
They kept on winning elections due to same reason as that of tripathi. Look at the FDI situation from a business point of view, Walmart will eat these kiraanewallas in the blink of an eye. Not only kiraanewallas, many other businesses also evade taxes.

 

[whitestar_999]

This is democracy that too EVM era(in earlier times in ballot paper era & state police not crpf guarding polling booths,in Bihar Laloo's men will put the ballots themselves for entire areas while nobody dare to say anything.God Bless T N Sheshan who first showed the country how to conduct fair elections). People themselves respect corrupt leaders in private envying their money even if in public they don't say anything.

The same logic was used earlier too.When Rajiv Gandhi first bought computer to India opposition parties launched nation wide protests saying computer will take away all human jobs.Again god bless Rajiv Gandhi that he didn't listen to opposition or you & I might be having this discussion using a 128kbps broadband connection today with a monthly bill of 1000+. Same argument was repeated after 1991 reforms saying MNCs will enslave the country again like east India Company did(I am not joking,you can check news archive of old 1991 news papers) Do kiraanewaallas interests trump interests of India & its citizens?If letting Walmart means hundreds(maybe thousands) of crores of extra revenue & cheaper prices for crores of citizens but resulting in losses to many non-tax paying kiraanewaallas does that mean kiraanewaallas interests are put higher because they are superior than you.

 

[whitestar_999]

It's called "function creep". The government will find more ways to abuse and use Aadhaar, just because it is there.

Coercion and Silence Are Integral Parts of the Aadhaar Project

Then wait for SC decision to come,if they allow aadhaar then what will you do.People much more knowledgeable than you are fighting this case in SC on both sides so if the decision comes in favour of aadhaar would you then disobey the law saying "I am right & govt & SC is wrong".You should have the flexibility to accept aadhaar if SC approves of it.

 

[billubakra]

@whitestar_999
How a drug peddler in Bengaluru dug his own grave by declaring his income

 

[Anorion]

Yeah, I have already accepted it. Following the case closely. Still feel that even if it is accepted for now, eventually the database is going to be destroyed. People much more knowledgeable than me have pointed out what a disaster in the making it is.

They have already renegaded on their promise of Aadhaar being voluntary.

 

[whitestar_999]

@whitestar_999
How a drug peddler in Bengaluru dug his own grave by declaring his income

Yes,saw it in today's newspaper but here is the full article:
Drug peddler files I-T returns for Rs 40 lakh, lands in police net - Times of India

According to police sources, after the I-T department began scrutinizing his returns, Rachappa, on lawyers' advice, registered himself as a Class I contractor with a few government agencies.

In earlier times he would have simply got a fake PAN card not linked to Aadhaar & easily got away.Arguments like these are going to be given by top lawyers of India in SC fighting for govt in support of Aadhaar.

 

[billubakra]

Yes,saw it in today's newspaper but here is the full article:
Drug peddler files I-T returns for Rs 40 lakh, lands in police net - Times of India

In earlier times he would have simply got a fake PAN card not linked to Aadhaar & easily got away.Arguments like these are going to be given by top lawyers of India in SC fighting for govt in support of Aadhaar.

Brother he got caught because he showed his income that much which is like more than lakhs of % than the previous year. The aadhar card did not play any role in this.

 

[whitestar_999]

Brother he got caught because he showed his income that much which is like more than lakhs of % than the previous year. The aadhar card did not play any role in this.

Why do you think he showed all his income under one pan card/own name?Now-a-days one cannot file return with a fake pan card not linked with aadhaar & you just can't ask somebody from the street to file a return of few lakhs under their own real Aadhaar linked pan card.Earlier he would have simply got multiple fake cards,hired a chartered accountant & divide his income into multiple parts for filing multiple tax returns under multiple fake PAN cards & also open multiple bank accounts using fake pan cards to manage all his money.

If you ask why he had to show his income at all then again now-a-days using cash for large sums is not possible & because of pan & GST it is easy to track large cash transactions.It is one of the reason why real estate prices crashed after GST as most transactions in real estate are done using black money cash.What's the point of earning lakhs or crores if you can't spend any of it?Big politicians/businessman use hawala & shell companies & relatives to launder their money else they will not be able to spend anything.