5.1 Speakers dilemma...

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sagardani

Lost in LOST
I know this question has been asked several times on this forum. But my situation is bit different.

I want 5.1 speakers with budget around 10-12k... So there are only Logitech G51 and AL FX5051 currently available within this budget. FX5051 are under powered (89w) compared to G51 (155w) and cost same as G51. So they are out of question.

There used to be Z-5300 from Logitech and are sadly now discontinued. If you compare the two, Z5300 are much powerfull (280w) and much superior (THX) than currently available G51 and used to cost almost same.

But surprisingly my computer walla (Sujata Comp, Pune) told me he has Z5300 available (must be from the old lot).

So what should I do...? Should I go for Z5300? I have this dilemma because they are discontinued. But considering specs, they seem much better and powerfull than G51 and obviously give more vfm as price is almost same. Lookswise G51 are more funky but Z5300 are very nice, look similar to z5500.

Is anyone using either of them?
So shall I go for Z5300 or G51? (considering Z5300 are available)
 

kumarmohit

Technomancer
Even if these figures are RMS, I would say that you should check other features especially SNR and distortion before whipping the money. Go for the one from Logitech which is better. Infact consider the SNR and Distortion of Altec as well.
 

mayanksharma

Ambassador of Buzz
see, Z5300 is indeed any day better than 5051 or G51! I havent listened G51! But yep, FX5051 is one powerful set. Sound is accurately channelized through every satellites. Regarding the price, i was quite shocked too. However, the speaker system completely removes the need of a 6 channel sound card for good! :D The USB plug and play thing is gr8!
See, if u can get Z5300...then dont think much. Go for it.
 
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sagardani

sagardani

Lost in LOST
Underpowered!!! have you listened to them. This wattage business is a very subjective thing. I tell you just one spk of Jamo or DENON with 50w RMS will blow the socks of any sony/logi/panny crap...........
So dont just fall for rated wattage, all commerciall spks fake it to some extent......go, listen, compare and then judge.

Out of the two commertial spks discuessed above I'd always easily recommend Altec 5051 over logitech 5300 (keeping the quality aspect much above)

I want for movies /music. If wattage is just subjective thing then what should I look into them? I can't compare/listen and judge them side by side. Seller won't allow it. Have to decide here only. According to Digit (April) reviews, G51 is best performer compared to 5051. They haven't reviewd Z5300 as its discontinued.So what determines the quality of sound (if not RMS)? And how to judge not by listening side by side?
 

desiibond

Bond, Desi Bond!
I saw Z5500 yesterday and man, it's subwoofer looks like a monster. This set is worth for only those who has really really big room. It's somewhere around 6-7 times bigger than ATP3's subwoofer. And if you can't shake your house with music/movies, it's waste of money. Saw this set at Home town, Bangalore and price is Rs.16,500
 

shashank_re

In the zone
Z-5300 is 12k and Z-5500 is ~18k. But the price at Home town(16.5k) is excellent price and it is completely worth the money.
If you can increase your budget by say another 5k,then blindly go for Z-5500.
 
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sagardani

sagardani

Lost in LOST
Z-5300 is 12k and Z-5500 is ~18k. But the price at Home town(16.5k) is excellent price and it is completely worth the money.
If you can increase your budget by say another 5k,then blindly go for Z-5500.

I can't spend even 1 paisa above 12k... And btw 5500 costs around 27k here at Pune... So anyways someone put light on this RMS thing..... If thats not quality measure then waht is ?

What difference will this THX certification make ?
 
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desiibond

Bond, Desi Bond!
yes. one thing I observed in this months digit mag is totally stupid pricing listed by them. They mentioned Z5300 at 28k !!!
 
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sagardani

sagardani

Lost in LOST
^^^ Its 5500 not 5300 at 28k.. What difference will this THX certification make ? I heard to have a THX effect, a room should be like that (sound proof, angles betn walls, etc).. So how THX certification of speakers will create effect in normal room?
 

desiibond

Bond, Desi Bond!
^^ Dude.

Z-5300 price is around 15k and Z-5500 price is around 17k

not just that, they mentioned 2x price for Creative speakers.
 
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desiibond

Bond, Desi Bond!
the size factor definitely comes in when you have small room.

A 180W woofer cannot be used unless you have big room enough to use it's full potential.

under using Rs.16k product is totally nonsense.
 

royal

Padawan
Even I was planning to get Z5300 :mad: Why did Logitech discontinue this model ? :confused: :-(

I definitely would not go for G51 as I feel its overpriced :mad:
 

mayanksharma

Ambassador of Buzz
So anyways someone put light on this RMS thing..... If thats not quality measure then waht is ?
What difference will this THX certification make ?

RMS stands for "Root Mean Square". RMS indicates the true power of the speaker amplifier, which is a fancy mathematical formulation for certifying the average amount of power an amplifier can continuously produce, no matter whats ur volume level is! Plus, the better is RMS rating, better are the speakers! Simple as it gets. :)

THX is defines assurance of quality and standards. Developed at George Lucas studios, the THX standards certifies movies, speakers and movie theatres with a tag-name that says, "The Way its meant to be heard." See, if u ever had THX certified set or film DVD, u must have seen this logo or received the silver THX imprint behind the speakers! Look, for more details, u can try Wiki!
To cut in short, THX lays two standards: Ultra and Standard.
Few more under them. They defines, the complete layout and fundamentals to setup the system for reproducing the sound. It includes special sound processor, that separates the low and high frequencies to provide cleaner sound over the theater's sound system. So, if the speaker is THX certified, u are assured to have Best of Line Product. And it'll sound as been intended by the original mixing engineers. Ohh..one more thing, THX is among Industry's Best Quality Standards for Speakers/Movies and Theatres. :D

Underpowered!!! have you listened to them. This wattage business is a very subjective thing. I tell you just one spk of Jamo or DENON with 50w RMS will blow the socks of any sony/logi/panny crap...........
So dont just fall for rated wattage, all commerciall spks fake it to some extent......go, listen, compare and then judge.
Out of the two commertial spks discuessed above I'd always easily recommend Altec 5051 over logitech 5300 (keeping the quality aspect much above)
ohh really?? :D
Alright show me any "One Speaker of Jamo or Denon" with 50W that will blow the socks of Sony /Logitech !
Prove your talk and i'll believe it. And if u cant then stop cursing others! :D
Huh...5051? Come on dude..Logitech 5300 has been out there since 5051 development wasnt even begun. Z5300 system boasts 35W to all four front and rear satellites and overall 39.5W to the centre channel. Leave the woofer wattage! Now, 5051 has distributed 12W to each front and rear satellites and 13W to centre!! And with that u expect it to compete with Z5300??
One more thing, which model of 5051 are u talking about?
FYI, there are two...FX and GT. And both are way behind than a Z5300!
And why shouldnt one fall for rated wattage? That means u shouldnt go for processors by their Frequency and FSB ratings!! Right? :D
U say, 89W is loud?? :p If, this isnt too much to ask, then do yourself a favour, check out the Creative Gigaworks S750 and u'll know what em talking about!
 
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sagardani

sagardani

Lost in LOST
the better is RMS rating, better are the speakers! Simple as it gets.
Better in what sense dude? sound quality(?) Now what does this 'sound quality' means here? Is it loudness, is it crisp/clearness, is it abt delivering details, or anything else? I've heard Z5500 at friend's place. No offense but it didn't really live upto my expectations. I was expecting crisp, clear sound and I got disappointed. I don't know if crisp/clear is right word or not... But in spite of being around 500w RMS total, there was missing somerthing I want. No doubt its stunning speaker set and creates earthquake at place but to be honest it lacks something seriously. I call it- crisp or clearness. My Creative inspire 4.1 are crisp than it...! Sounds weird, but thats what I've experienced. So I just want to know by saying so and so Watts RMS, what you come to know about speakers? Power..! Power i.e what exactly? The "duuuuummmm" of woofer? Or loudness? Or crisp/clearness? I asked this because earlier I used to think same a you. Higher RMS, batter the set. But when I heard 5500 and read sam9s's post my thought is changing. Though Im not 100% convienced. So you just clarify what does this "power of speaker" mean:).

I would also give a chance to Klipsch/JBL, which though bit more expensive would beat both Logi/Altec in the sound department.

Which speakers you use man?
 
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sagardani

sagardani

Lost in LOST
So from this discussion, especially posts from sam9s I arrived at following conclusion- Clarity/crispness is not related to watts (RMS) value.

Am I right or wrong?

Still have these doubts-

1. So what determines clarity or crispness?

2. Power means what exatly? The "dhuuuuummmm" of woofer? or loudness? or something else? (assuming that manufacturer has given correct RMS values)

Heyy dude btw are those ATP5 4.1 channel?
 

mayanksharma

Ambassador of Buzz
@sam9s,
hmm...till now, i havent been to any losses!
Regarding, proving the point....how are you supposed to prove ur talk, coz u dont know anything about them! :p Denon, Jamo or Onkyo...these brands are ofcourse much better than regular speakers in the market. It is because of their high profilic design and amplification rating. U said a 50W Denon speaker. FYI, that includes a separate amplification unit to aid the speaker with that amount of power. Experience..? I have two shops here in Noida. And i've been sharing my best there.
Ok, regarding the Z5300 line, what i meant to say is that the set is ofcourse more popular than Altec's one. Not because its old but becoz, the set itself has its own reputation and name due to the sheer performance it delivered. Z5300 is still and will be better than AL 5051 speakers, no matter how late they are introduced! :p Considering, we now know about 5051 as well. More clearer??? :D :D You said experience? hehe...Fine, tell me in what sense AL speakers are much clearer than Logitech Z5300?? See, if u are saying that line as universal, then change it. And if u are saying that line in comparison to Z5300...prove it! Dont give excuses becoz of forums! :p And regarding the true power and rms thing. See, what i knew holds true this far. Again, em saying if u know anything better please share it here. Better dont give any thinkdigit links to prove that! :D
And ohh regarding, the comparison thing...either u cant get anything, what i said properly...or may be u are in habit of skipping things!!
U said, 200W is something, no speaker can handle! hmm...how come i know different?
A typical Megaworks amplifier is capable to provide almost 500W of continuous power to the speakers and thats too without any loss! Ever noticed, there isnt even any heatsink to dissipate the power. U say, 200W? I've seen pure 1200W RMS speakers pounding the sound that'll throw ur heart away!! :D :D
Just ask my frnd, i'll try my best to clear up the confusions.
Just as speakers go with their power ratings , similarly processors go with frequency and FSB. Read it again. Even if u have troubles, i can help u again! :)
See, i take those curse and words like that back.(i must be going way too catholic anywayz..:D :D) Never meant to offend u or ur feelings anyway. We are here just to share our best. :) Arent we?

@sagardani,
A speaker's power rating (in general) tells you how much A.C. power can be dissipated in the speaker's voice coil without damaging the speaker.
The most honest way to rate a speaker is to give the rating as continuous RMS watts (ex: 150 watts continuous rms power). The first thing you should realize is that speaker ratings are OFTEN exaggerated. Then you should ask if the rating is in RMS or peak watts and are the speaker ratings for instantaneous or continuous power. Most car audio speakers (with the exception of some subwoofers) are rated in peak power or music power. Only a few speakers (generally the higher quality speakers) are rated in RMS watts. While peak power is a legitimate way to rate speakers (as long as the manufacturer tells you that the power rating is in peak watts), it can be deceptive.
Generally speaking, Peak power is 2*RMS power. If a speaker is actually capable of handling 150 watts of peak power it would only be rated to handle 75 watts RMS. If a speaker is rated to handle 150 watts 'music power', it may mean that the speaker will take only very short bursts of power approaching 150 watts RMS. Even if there are two speakers from different manufacturers which have the same power ratings, one of the manufacturers may be more conservative in their ratings than the other manufacturer. The more conservatively rated speaker would be more likely to handle its rated power. So, ratings are just to say that, particular speaker is capable of producing this much amount of power for certain amount of time.
Coming to ur Sharp, Clear, Crisp sound...see, this words typically fits within the high range frequency reproductions. See, the speaker specification chart mentioning the frequency it can handle. Say 20Hz-25KHz! The max. one i.e. above 4KHz, till 16Khzwould concern about the high range sound reproduction. Second to talk, comes the design of satellites, their way of throwing the sound at direction and finally the usage of quality tweeters and metal tappings over them. Things like Impedance also comes into the play then.
U said, ur Inspire 4.1 are crisper than Z5500! See, the user perceptions may vary with their way of listening. But, the fact is different. If the satellites are rated higher with wattage, that means it is capable of producing louder sound than others. Louder in terms of tweeters means high frequency sounds, in terms of squakers means better mid range and in terms of woofer means, better bass loudness. And ohh...that'll include the loudness, i.e. "dhuuuumm" as u say! :D :p Look, bigger the woofer...i.e. >6.5"...better is the bass reproduction. You can almost feel the room shaking experience. That is only possible if its rated accordingly.
Look, setting the speaker on equalizer is very important. No matter how hard u listen, how heavy speakers u have. But, just think, if ur speaker isnt capable of handling that much of volume it is been thrown upon than the only thing to say is that, the speaker cant handle that much of power. Simply putting...as u increase the volume level, more power and heat is going to be handled by speakers. And if speakers cant...Clipping gets introduced.
See, i generally never write this much to explain my point. Just for ur point, i tried explaining the things for good. :)
 
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royal

Padawan
mayanksharma Wow ... thats some serious gyan session you had there man ... :D :p ;)

And since you are a shop-owner, how about giving hardware to fellow digitians at huge discounts ? :D :D :D What say ? :p
 

m-jeri

Caballero de Real Madrid
i didnt even had the heart to read it..... :(

@ sam & @may.....

just a lil pointer dont u both think tht quality of a spk is a personal opinon and a matter of hearing it in perfect conditions....now dont kill me....;)

p.s .... i am a altec user now... but my next one is z5500....
 
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