which linux to install?

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Zeeshan Quireshi

C# Be Sharp !
freebird said:
GNOME is much better.not that much confusion regarding the menus settings etc,did i say kde a little bloated:D.but if ur new to Linux and coming from windows world to world without windows,initially try using kde and gnome,afterwards settle with GNOME;a pure fsf product.So Anytime prefer Ubuntu over Kubuntu.


that's coz kde copies somewhere windows xp ui?Windows users find it easy with Kde.but mind it,GNOME is way simpler with no messy menus and controls to do with.the point is while moving to Linux,u may need to unlearn manythings from Windows,esp if u r a windows power user-geek.
below link will be much useful for newbie Linux movers from Windows world.
*linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

well gnome uses less system resources but the reason i use KDE is that it has a lotta advanced features which r missing in Gnome(by default) :
1. One-click shading of a window(middle click by default)
2. enabling num-lock when logging in to kde
3. window cascading and uncluttering options
4. do u need more , i can type a whole list ....:rolleyes:
 

freebird

Debian Rocks!
^almost all can be achievable in GNOME too.
but the reason for GNOME remianing simple is:
Usable

GNOME understands that usability is about creating software that is easy for everyone to use, not about piling on features. GNOME's community of professional and volunteer usability experts have created Free Software's first and only Human Interface Guidelines, and all core GNOME software is adopting these principles. Find out more about GNOME and usability at the GNOME Usability Project.
*www.gnome.org/about/
 

Zeeshan Quireshi

C# Be Sharp !
freebird said:
^almost all can be achievable in GNOME too.
but the reason for GNOME remianing simple is:
*www.gnome.org/about/

exactly , i didn't say GNOME was bad , it's best for first time users according to me .

but when u get over the initial learning curve u need a lotta extra features which r not available in gnome by default , u have to install many extra apps , plugins(most of them r not even official n r mostly beta ) that's why i prefer KDE .

can u please tell me how to do the above three things in GNOME :) as u said these can be easily done in GNOME .

also mouse movement in GNOME feels jerky n is not at all smooth , in KDE though it's very responsive n smooth .

PS:i have tried changing the mouse settings in Ubuntu but i just can't get the feel right , the movement sometimes is too much sensitive n sometimes acceleration goes bersek , u hv to change 2 settings , sensitivity n acceleration , i just can't seem to get the right mix , if nycone can pls post their values for these settings the maybe the m ouse movement will be smooth .

and , i'm not using a USB mouse , i'm using a simple PS/2 wheel mouse .
 

freebird

Debian Rocks!
^AS i said GNOME is always insisting on minimal controls unlike kde which many users dislike for kde's cluttered menu's.
To see the available options for GNOME
as for something like kcontrol try this in run dialog: gnome-control-centre
*lunapark6.com/?p=2728
the reasons for kde:
KDE is more glitz and eye candy. I started with KDE pretty much because it had that "snazzier" appearance. Later I gave Gnome a more fair trial and I must say I enjoy it's more robust nature over the glitz of KDE.
I believe the reason your "users" are wanting KDE is simply it's glitzier nature and the fact the "grass seems greener". Let them frolick in the KDE fields a few months, break things and decide then.
*www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/blogs/trying_kde#comment-64403

regarding ur mouse problem is nothing to blame for GNOME.My mouse pointer works easy sensitive and fast as i want
U can try System>Preferences>Mouse
regarding ur questions i'll try:
1) One-click shading of a window(middle click by default)
cant get u?do u say if mouse hovers above the window border to get it selected?
gnome-window-properties
or to set whole desktop for one click options go to nautilus file browser Edit> preferences>behaviour>single click to acticate items.
2)use a package called numlockx apt-get install numlockx
3)window cascading and uncluttering options
^ this i have to look for.although GNOME groups open windows.there is some options which i have to probe.the thing is the default Desktop GNOME just works fine for me and many others.

^above all i say the minimalistic view of GNOME and its stability are the two things which attracted me.I cant work in kde more than a minute!becoz i dont want the menu for customising each and everything to look like my views.

it depends upon views.I am sure Windows users are easy with Kde.but there are a loyal community likes the way GNOME works with its plain nice interface.
Above All GNOME is the Pioneer project headed by free software community unlike qt owned kde.
*gnomerocksmyworld.blogspot.com/
I use (and will continue to) GNOME for 3 very simple reasons:
  1. It suits my daily workflow.
  2. I know where to find the tools I need quickly.
  3. I find it simple yet elegant to the point that the default settings work for me
 

Zeeshan Quireshi

C# Be Sharp !
freebird said:
regarding ur mouse problem is nothing to blame for GNOME.My mouse pointer works easy sensitive and fast as i want
U can try System>Preferences>Mouse
regarding ur questions i'll try:
1) One-click shading of a window(middle click by default)
cant get u?do u say if mouse hovers above the window border to get it selected?
gnome-window-properties
or to set whole desktop for one click options go to nautilus file browser Edit> preferences>behaviour>single click to acticate items.

ahh , u seem to have been deprived the sweet pleasures of window shading , let me explain .
*img183.imageshack.us/img183/359/snapshot1bi5.png

u see the image , when u middle-click on the title bar of a window in KDE it rolls up taking minimalistic window space , as seen in te screenshot , this is not possible in GNOME

u seem to have no idea what window shading is , so pls try it in GNOME or KDE(which introduced Window Shading) then give me a satisfactory answer as to how to enable window shading in GNOME by middle-click.
freebird said:
2)use a package called numlockx apt-get install numlockx
u see KDE includes numlockx by default , n this is a usability application , this certainly needs to be there . u first have to search an whole hour discovering how to enable num-lock while logging in .
freebird said:
3)window cascading and uncluttering options
^ this i have to look for.although GNOME groups open windows.there is some options which i have to probe.the thing is the default Desktop GNOME just works fine for me and many others.
u have not provided a clear answer for this .

so in all u have only answered one of my questions , i request u please tell me how to achieve the other two .
 

praka123

left this forum longback
^^ hmm the answer is simple.We,GNOME users likes the way GNOME works by default.I think eye-candy and options are more in kde but We are happy with GNOME-as simple as it is.
if u like kde,go use it.this section already witnessed many flame wars reg GNOME vs KDE already..
 

freebird

Debian Rocks!
@zeeshan:
those features are available if u use beryl window manager unlike metacity.
eye-candies are no way for use with me.so am using GNOME.Simple thing=if ur happy with kde use it.am very much happy and satisfied with GNOME and gtk applications.proud to say no qt apps here in my pc.:)
my gnome-2.18 happy here!
*img222.imageshack.us/img222/8748/screenshotmn2.th.png
gnome is customisable to look gr8 see tech_ur_future's screenshot:
*img251.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotlf4.png
 
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Zeeshan Quireshi

C# Be Sharp !
i wasn't even talkin bout Eye-Candy man , i was talkin bout functionality n window shading is functionality not eye candy . also i don't want to take hassles of changin window managers , i take what is installed by default .

@freebird , man u still haven't posted the answers to my queries , if those things r possible in GNOME i will switch back to it .
 

Zeeshan Quireshi

C# Be Sharp !
freebird said:
^it is not a war to win!.GNOME is the way for me!
k i'm not talkin bout war but still do tell me how to enable middle-click shadowing in GNOME and to enable window cascading and uncluttering .
 

praka123

left this forum longback
hmm...window shading is not discovered by kde!
It is possible by default on GNOME 2.2 itself.looong time back itself.
It is hidden for normal users.this can be enabled by following method:
press ALT+F2 to get a run dialog in GNOME.enter gconf-editor and run it.
browse in gconf-editor to:
/schemas/apps/metacity/general/action_double_click_titlebar
select new key :In Name enter: toggle_shade ,type:string
exit the editor now double click(u can set single click too) the window border,and see the result it will shade to the possible minimum.
that's it.



I'll recommend U to read this:
*www.gnome.org/learn/users-guide/2.14/
*www.gnome.org/learn/

and lastly U told u r gonna switch back if GNOME does windows shading,isnt it?I will be very happy if another GNOME user is here!and dont expect GNOME to do uber cool things!but the power is there.UR Welcome.
 

Zeeshan Quireshi

C# Be Sharp !
praka123 said:
hmm...window shading is not discovered by kde!
It is possible by default on GNOME 2.2 itself.looong time back itself.
It is hidden for normal users.this can be enabled by following method:
press ALT+F2 to get a run dialog in GNOME.enter gconf-editor and run it.
browse in gconf-editor to:
/schemas/apps/metacity/general/action_double_click_titlebar
select new key :In Name enter: toggle_shade ,type:string
exit the editor now double click(u can set single click too) the window border,and see the result it will shade to the possible minimum.
that's it.



I'll recommend U to read this:
*www.gnome.org/learn/users-guide/2.14/
*www.gnome.org/learn/

and lastly U told u r gonna switch back if GNOME does windows shading,isnt it?I will be very happy if another GNOME user is here!and dont expect GNOME to do uber cool things!but the power is there.UR Welcome.

arre yaar i was a gone user from start , i only switched to KDe a week ago :D :D

btw , isn't their ny point n click way to enable it ,also by the string it seems it will enable shadowing by double clicking on title , i want it specifically to be done from middle click .
 

praka123

left this forum longback
^ everything is possible.but one thing with GNOME is they mask the settings as per HIG for normal users via gconf (xml based registry like windows OS).u can tinker with gconf settings to enable many a hidden options.
 

eddie

El mooooo
freebird said:
Above All GNOME is the Pioneer project headed by free software community unlike qt owned kde.
Please stay clear of the FUD. I can understand anyone and everyone having their own tastes for software they use but things like these are just cheap shots imho. Do you have any valid sources to back your claim that Qt owns KDE? What does this mean anyways? How can a toolkit "own" a desktop environment? This is just plain silly.
 

praka123

left this forum longback
as with GNOME's simplicity goes the words of it's default Window manager metacity:
Metacity's focus is on simplicity and usability rather than novelties or gimmicks. Its author has characterized it as a "Boring window manager for the adult in you. Many window managers are like Marshmallow Froot Loops; Metacity is like Cheerios."[3]
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacity#Philosophy
Controversy

Metacity, unlike the previous choices for GNOME window manager, has few configuration options and its introduction as the default choice was a controversial one. Those in favour of Metacity say that GNOME is aimed at new computer users who do not need the extreme configurability of Sawfish or Enlightenment.[5] Havoc Pennington wrote an essay explaining why he wrote Metacity and simplified the GNOME desktop[6]. Critics claim that Metacity has sacrificed the flexibility and control usually associated with Unix applications. This perceived lack of flexibility has led to the development of such add-ons as Devil's Pie, and Brightside.
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacity#Controversy

kde got integrated with its own window manager.difficult to get other wm working in kde.

all these customisations are possible in GNOME.GNOME can use most of the available Window Managers,be it compiz/beryl,Enlightenment,sawfish and more.these window managers are very much customisable although metacity remains vanilla as per GNOME ideologies.now metacity also got compositing enabled.


why metacity for GNOME?
*software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/01/19/166244&tid=130&tid=132
for more about wm's:
*xwinman.org/
 

eddie

El mooooo
praka123 said:
kde got integrated with its own window manager.difficult to get other wm working in kde.
....
GNOME can use most of the available Window Managers,be it compiz/beryl,Enlightenment,sawfish and more.
KDE with Kwin
*img209.imageshack.us/img209/4290/kwinei9.th.jpg

KDE with Fluxbox
*img213.imageshack.us/img213/2810/fluxboxvn9.th.jpg

KDE with Emerald
*img204.imageshack.us/img204/5832/emeraldoy9.th.jpg

KDE with Aquamarine
*img213.imageshack.us/img213/5664/aquamarinepj9.th.jpg

I didn't have more Window Managers installed or else I would have shown them working in KDE as well.

All these screen shots have been taken by me within a span of 5 minutes. I wonder what difficulty you were talking about :rolleyes:
 

praka123

left this forum longback
i am in the assumption that kde works better and much more integrated with kwin unlike GNOME way- if u want more effects get another compositing window manager instead of default metacity.anyway's nice info.
 

freebird

Debian Rocks!
An Unbiased story of the two leading Desktop Environments -GNOME and KDE:
a must read for Newbies arguing about mah desktop is better..
*www.pcauthority.com.au/print.aspx?CIID=79378&SIID=10
*www.pcauthority.com.au/feature.aspx?CIaFID=3446
excerpts:
It certainly doesn’t seem like the modern Linux desktop has been more than 10 years in the making, but it’s true: work on KDE started way back in 1996. The Linux desktop back then consisted mainly of components not written on Linux systems, but rather ported from the X desktops of proprietary UNIX systems.
..................
Qt was not regarded as open-source at the time -- its code was available free of charge, but under a restrictive licence that forbade commercial use. Many thought that this could prove a problem in the long run, but KDE’s future was by no means certain, and the developers reasoned that they could deal with the licencing issues if and when KDE succeeded.

Of course, KDE did succeed, and by 1997 the licencing issues had already come back to haunt them. Beyond words of warning and worry, there was more practical fallout, including the exclusion of KDE from Red Hat Linux, which put KDE beyond the reach of many of the less experienced users it hoped to attract.

Partly in response to the Qt woes, in 1997, Miguel de Icaza and Federico Mena founded the GNOME project. Mena was working on early versions of The GIMP, and realised that GTK, the C-based GUI toolkit developed as part of the GIMP, could be adapted to handle general desktop duties. GNOME gained many supporters, including Red Hat, which fast-tracked development to make GNOME 1.0 the default desktop in Red Hat 6.0.

With its development head-start, and the boost provided by the mature Qt toolkit, KDE reached version 1.0 in July 1998, ahead of GNOME 1.0 in March 1999. Around this time, Qt developers Trolltech announced that the upcoming 2.0 version of Qt would be released under the Q Public Licence (QPL), a true open-source licence. Eventually the code was also licenced under the GPL, nullifying concerns about Qt licencing, at least in regard to development of open-source projects like KDE.

By that time, though, GNOME was already well established, and it was clear that its developers weren’t going to abandon their hard work just because Qt’s licence had changed. Besides, in building GNOME they’d created their own unique vision for the perfect Linux desktop, often differing from the plans of the KDE developers. For better or worse, Linux would have two major desktops.

A tale of two desktops
Both GNOME and KDE have gone from strength to strength since those early days, and both today are great desktops, though they remain quite distinct projects. There are many similarities of course, and this is to be expected: neither really diverges from the basic desktop concepts that also underpin Windows and Mac OS, since those concepts seem to work well, and they’re certainly familiar to existing computer users.

In terms of design and intent, the most fundamental difference between GNOME and KDE is in the way they approach usability. The GNOME project takes a very proactive, and sometimes controversial approach, with a detailed set of human interface guidelines (usually called the “HIG”) that guide application design. Among other things, the HIG recommends that applications use sensible default values for all configuration options, and that those options are kept to a reasonable minimum to avoid confusion.
.................................
The KDE approach to usability is less hard-line than GNOME’s, though the developers take it no less seriously. KDE remains incredibly configurable, and for many users this is a great boon: rather than having the desktop dictate a user’s behaviour, a power user can jump right in and customise the desktop to suit their needs.
read complete:
*www.pcauthority.com.au/print.aspx?CIID=79378&SIID=10
 

Zeeshan Quireshi

C# Be Sharp !
hey frebird , could u please change ur avatar , i have no prob if u support linux but this hate windows kinda avatar looks derogatory :)
 
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