chimera201
Wise Old Owl
He is probably talking about the smell at chicken/mutton shops or fish markets, not the smell of the chicken/mutton/fish you bought and brought at home.
Vegetarian vs Non- Vegetarian
- Thread starter Ronnie012
- Start date
He is probably talking about the smell at chicken/mutton shops or fish markets, not the smell of the chicken/mutton/fish you bought and brought at home.
Zangetsu
I am the master of my Fate.
Its hard to disable brain using halal method. and the no of times body twitches afterwards is not like some stored signals in body which activates after brain death.
the moment body stops moving means instant brain death due stopped signals from brain to the body.
Any many people have experience death scenario...when somebody dies there will an instant blackout (microsecond) and everything will be lost (i don't know where).
my friend had a tragic accident (though he survived)..but his experience tells me that he didn't remember anything what happened when suddenly a car crashed his leg and he was unconscious and he didn't see the car coming but only felt an instant blackout.
I agree with the point that we feel the pain later
For e.g: A bullet on a leg will not/or a short fall breaking bones will not give pain for some seconds and then it starts increasing and creeps the hell out of you.
Try not to get too emotional over online arguments even if the issue is close to your heart.I just gave a link to a post where it was stated that as per a scientific study done to compare the effects of Halal & western method,the halal method was found to be much less painful to animals in question.I did not say that it means it is okay to be nonveg because that would not be a logical conclusion of this study.
Also you are wrong about hanging instantly killing,what it instantly does is sever the connection of spine to brain rendering the subject unconscious & unable to feel anything.Death occurs only after a few minutes & that is why every court judgement says "....to be hanged till death". Human heart works differently so it can not be said for sure how long it will take to disable brain after a vein cut but as hanging is the preferred method for capital punishment(outside US) & considered "humane"(not my words but words of judges) I am guessing it takes longer & hence not used as a form of capital punishment by any democratic country.
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Don't take it otherwise but avoid making such sweeping statements with no professional knowledge to back it up,especially when arguing against a scientifically conducted study.Brain & nervous system are the most complex organs of human body & one can not simply say "the moment body stops moving means instant brain death due stopped signals from brain to the body".
*io9.gizmodo.com/5862418/10-bodily-functions-that-continue-after-death
OP
Ronnie012
Earthling
"A study of the issue commissioned by the Dutch government in 2008 concluded that "ritual slaughter has a number of negative aspects for the animals when compared to conventional procedures where a stun is performed prior to slaughter".
Its findings were mirrored in a 2010 report by a consortium of scientists for an EU-funded project, which concluded that "it can be stated with the utmost probability that animals feel pain during the throat cut without prior stunning".
It said research showed most cattle seemed to lose consciousness between five and 90 seconds after the cut, and were sometimes subjected to "potentially painful manipulations", including follow-up cuts, while still conscious."
Should animals be stunned before slaughter? - BBC News
The above excerpts are from bbc and aren't sweeping generalised statements.
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The earlier reply of mine was not directed towards you but another person for simply making a sweeping statement without any logical backing.Your reply is the one to be posted when arguing such matters.Anyway the link below mention it was one of the earliest study done to study effects of ritual vs stunning slaughter but just like any scientific study its conclusions can be challenged but only by another scientific study & not by simply making statements:
Wilhelm Schulze - Wikipedia
Wilhelm Schulze - Wikipedia
Stormbringer
Ambassador of Buzz
My 2 cents on this topic.
One can't outright declare a food habit as right or wrong. Food habits varies due geographical conditions. I am currently living in Oslo, Norway. Here vegetation is not possible throughout the year. Many vegetables are grown in specially constructed Greenhouses and everything else are imported from other countries. Hence prices tend to be higher. In such a case, Vegetarian diet is expensive and may not provide all the nutrients in sufficient quantity to sustain the local climate. To survive is a base human instinct. If it’s required to survive, killing an animal for food is necessary and not something to be judged.
I’m a Vegetarian. My Non-Vegetarian friends, Neighbors and colleagues respect my food choice. They take extra effort and not make Non-Veg food items when they invite me for Lunch/Dinner etc so I won’t accidently consume meat. I’m grateful for that. So, in return I respect their food choices. It’s not too much to ask, is it?
In short, Eat what you eat and drop the condescending attitude. Being vegetarians does not give us a moral high ground over others.
Note: Jackfruits doesn’t smell unpleasant unless its rotten.
One can't outright declare a food habit as right or wrong. Food habits varies due geographical conditions. I am currently living in Oslo, Norway. Here vegetation is not possible throughout the year. Many vegetables are grown in specially constructed Greenhouses and everything else are imported from other countries. Hence prices tend to be higher. In such a case, Vegetarian diet is expensive and may not provide all the nutrients in sufficient quantity to sustain the local climate. To survive is a base human instinct. If it’s required to survive, killing an animal for food is necessary and not something to be judged.
I’m a Vegetarian. My Non-Vegetarian friends, Neighbors and colleagues respect my food choice. They take extra effort and not make Non-Veg food items when they invite me for Lunch/Dinner etc so I won’t accidently consume meat. I’m grateful for that. So, in return I respect their food choices. It’s not too much to ask, is it?
In short, Eat what you eat and drop the condescending attitude. Being vegetarians does not give us a moral high ground over others.
Note: Jackfruits doesn’t smell unpleasant unless its rotten.
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Darth Vader
In the zone
I'm also a 100% pure (White-lacto-red meat to be precise) VEGETARIAN and I respect cruel Non-vegetarians for their food choices.
Save Hypocrisy ! Save Ignorance !! Save Homo sapiens sapiens !!!
Save Hypocrisy ! Save Ignorance !! Save Homo sapiens sapiens !!!
Let's just hope nobody here cites being veg or nonveg as the reason for the above post
quicky008
Technomancer
Says the imbecile who uses remarks like "dont poke your nose in others food smell" and "somebody would force meat down your throat" to put forward his views in an online forum-when one takes into account the puerile and ludicrous nature of your comments it doesn't take long to realize who the "troll" or "kid" is in this particular situation.And did you actually read my post thoroughly before advising me to refrain from poking my nose in others food and all that nonsense(thats assuming your mental faculties are in good working order and are not fickle or immature like that of a child,which may lead you to experience great difficulties even while performing basic tasks like reading a few lines of text written in simple english)?I was not referring to the smell of non-vegan foods,but to the sickly stench that emits from slaughterhouses-did that evade your notice by any chance or are you so daft that you didn't understand what i was saying??
And what do you mean by "you don't have any regards to anyone's opinion whatsoever"?The way i see it,you are the one who provoked me in the first place by posting an utterly offensive and inflammatory comment in response to a normal discussion that i was having with some other members about the abominable conditions that exist in slaughterhouses,which clearly proves that it is you who shows no consideration or regard for the opinions that are held by others,not me and it appears whenever you run into someone whose views don't exactly align with yours you try to subvert his activities by hurling insults and abuses at him,which speaks volumes about what kind of a person you really are.
Also if the brashness and insolence with which you've responded to my posts thus far are anything to go by,i'd say you're the one who considers himself to be a "priviledged " non-vegetarian,therefore consider ridding yourself of your own high-handedness and hypocrisy before you decide to go about leveling such baseless accusations at others.
And if you think you can force meat down my throat,you're more than welcome to give it a try-i can give you my solemnest assurance that its outcome will be very tragic indeed(for you,that is)and consequently you'll have to spend the rest of your life in a completely vegetative state!
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Randy_Marsh
Youngling
@quicky008 I like your sense of English vocabulary!
Note: My points are not directed towards anybody here.
What I think is, the supreme power in this entire world is "Nature". (Many would say "God", but I am more of a guy who likes science). Though humans made different beliefs, religions etc. to practice upon, the supreme power "Nature" has made us omnivorous. Even if a 50 year old vegan person have meat for the first time in his life, his body would digest it and soak nutrients out of it. Also, the entire food chain of living beings depends upon "kill to eat" rule. So, there is nothing wrong in eating animals.
Some people feel disgusted if they see animals getting killed for meat, some don't. It just depends upon their upbringing, environment and how their mind works. There is absolutely nothing wrong in both cases.
Yes, I agree that the way animals are treated in slaughterhouses are inhumane, but we feel so because we have such soft feelings. A lion who kills for food may look inhumane or barbaric to somebody, but that is absolutely right thing to do so and nobody's opinion really matters here, but the nature. There is no happy or easy going life for every living being on the planet earth.
Note: My points are not directed towards anybody here.
What I think is, the supreme power in this entire world is "Nature". (Many would say "God", but I am more of a guy who likes science). Though humans made different beliefs, religions etc. to practice upon, the supreme power "Nature" has made us omnivorous. Even if a 50 year old vegan person have meat for the first time in his life, his body would digest it and soak nutrients out of it. Also, the entire food chain of living beings depends upon "kill to eat" rule. So, there is nothing wrong in eating animals.
Some people feel disgusted if they see animals getting killed for meat, some don't. It just depends upon their upbringing, environment and how their mind works. There is absolutely nothing wrong in both cases.
Yes, I agree that the way animals are treated in slaughterhouses are inhumane, but we feel so because we have such soft feelings. A lion who kills for food may look inhumane or barbaric to somebody, but that is absolutely right thing to do so and nobody's opinion really matters here, but the nature. There is no happy or easy going life for every living being on the planet earth.
meetdilip
Computer Addict
It should be European science, to which India was a mystery till 1600 AD
And why do you need to even label science?Science is facts over which no country/organisation/individual holds a monopoly.There is no such thing as "European science" or "Indian science" ,only "European scientists" & "Indian scientists".
Who taught you that India was discovered by Vasco Da Gama?He discovered sea route to India & both are different things.Same is the case for America. Btw what you are using right now for typing these posts also came from "European/American scientists" inventions & discoveries.Be grateful to those European & American scientists without whose contributions humanity would probably still be living in villages with average life span of 30 years.
meetdilip
Computer Addict
Just like history, science is also inspired by political view points. There is ayurveda, which is not backed with people some think we should be grateful to. We survived at least 3,000 years in modern ( European ) history with meds we need to be grateful only to our ancestors, not people with very fair skin.
If you want more background on this, read about Hortus Malabaricus, where Europeans were awed by biological richness of Indian sub continent during the same period when we were " discovered ".
If you want more background on this, read about Hortus Malabaricus, where Europeans were awed by biological richness of Indian sub continent during the same period when we were " discovered ".
Let me give my two cents on this controversial issue. I am generally biased towards non-vegetarianism, therefore that would be reflected in my outlook in the below paragraphs.
A person's preference in food is a result of mental conditioning resulting from the environment that they have grown up in or the experiences that they have experienced over the years. This is not very different from a person's preference in ,say ,music. But this has nothing to do with belief or religion, just plain old conditioning. We adopt behaviour patterns and other habits, not from instinct but by watching others and our elders. Our family has as much effect on our behaviours, habits and preferences as much as peer pressure does. Aborigines in Australia are known to consume grub, Chinese people are known to consume Octopi and dogs, basically foods that fall outside an Indian's sensibility of food. But if an Indian were to consume those food, would there be any grievous harm? No. You may gag and puke, but eating dog meat won't kill you, neither would eating Octopus meat, at least not unless you have some form of severe allergy to such foods. Similarly, if you are a vegetarian and you were to consume non-vegetarian food at some point, nothing happens. If you feel bad about the animals killed for their meat, that is just you. Only one stopping you is you and not your religion, beliefs, or anyone else.
That being said, animal meat is just that: Proteins, a complex compound of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen among others. If you consume it, it helps build and maintain your body. If you choose not to consume it, no problem, its a free country. But if you are a vegetarian ask yourselves this, if you were born and brought up in a non-vegetarian household, would you be bashing non-vegetarian food and non-vegetarians right now? If you consider yourself lucky to be born in a vegetarian family, its actually just that, luck. It is luck that we are all born in our family, society, city, state or country. If your consciousness could have manifested anywhere in the world and you could have adopted the food of the place of our birth, so what is the importance of our preference of food in the grand scheme of things?
PS: I am generally targeting vegetarians here because most of them tend to judge non-vegetarians a little too harshly and I find myself most of the time defending myself against them. Also, it tends to be a one way argument since non-vegetarians also consume vegetarian food but generally it does not work the other way around.
PPS: This was written in a hurry so there might be logical fallacies, so point them out and I will clarify.
A person's preference in food is a result of mental conditioning resulting from the environment that they have grown up in or the experiences that they have experienced over the years. This is not very different from a person's preference in ,say ,music. But this has nothing to do with belief or religion, just plain old conditioning. We adopt behaviour patterns and other habits, not from instinct but by watching others and our elders. Our family has as much effect on our behaviours, habits and preferences as much as peer pressure does. Aborigines in Australia are known to consume grub, Chinese people are known to consume Octopi and dogs, basically foods that fall outside an Indian's sensibility of food. But if an Indian were to consume those food, would there be any grievous harm? No. You may gag and puke, but eating dog meat won't kill you, neither would eating Octopus meat, at least not unless you have some form of severe allergy to such foods. Similarly, if you are a vegetarian and you were to consume non-vegetarian food at some point, nothing happens. If you feel bad about the animals killed for their meat, that is just you. Only one stopping you is you and not your religion, beliefs, or anyone else.
That being said, animal meat is just that: Proteins, a complex compound of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen among others. If you consume it, it helps build and maintain your body. If you choose not to consume it, no problem, its a free country. But if you are a vegetarian ask yourselves this, if you were born and brought up in a non-vegetarian household, would you be bashing non-vegetarian food and non-vegetarians right now? If you consider yourself lucky to be born in a vegetarian family, its actually just that, luck. It is luck that we are all born in our family, society, city, state or country. If your consciousness could have manifested anywhere in the world and you could have adopted the food of the place of our birth, so what is the importance of our preference of food in the grand scheme of things?
PS: I am generally targeting vegetarians here because most of them tend to judge non-vegetarians a little too harshly and I find myself most of the time defending myself against them. Also, it tends to be a one way argument since non-vegetarians also consume vegetarian food but generally it does not work the other way around.
PPS: This was written in a hurry so there might be logical fallacies, so point them out and I will clarify.
Quite ironic to see you giving example of ayurveda on internet(invented by Tim Berners Lee) using computer(Charles Babbage) using ac electricity(Michael Faraday) in good health because of DPT & Polio vaccines(Louis Pasteur) you received when you were a child.You probably also believe that Indians had developed aeroplanes aka Vimaans depicted in mythological stories before wright brothers.Well at least you didn't say you believe in area 51 conspiracy theory,i guess that's a plus point.
There is no shame in accepting the facts,for no matter what,facts are facts.India's contribution to modern science is almost nil & that's a fact.No matter how much anyone try to believe,this will not change.Instead of dreaming about "glorious past of Ayurveda",think about why India can not claim to even one blockbuster drug developed by an Indian company & why all Indian pharmaceutical companies are known in the world as "generic drug makers"(a glorious term for copying the formula developed by someone else).