Vegetarian vs Non- Vegetarian

quicky008

Technomancer
^going by that logic killing humans for food isn't supposed to be a terrible thing to do either,as it is also being done in certain circles since the beginning of time!

And people have been committing murder,rape,arson etc since time immemorial-that doesn't necessarily make them the morally right thing to do.
 

Pasapa

Live to die another day
^going by that logic killing humans for food isn't supposed to be a terrible thing to do either,as it is also being done in certain circles since the beginning of time!

And people have been committing murder,rape,arson etc since time immemorial-that doesn't necessarily make them the morally right thing to do.

I don't remember humans eating other humans on a large scale for survival?
And you're equating food consumption with rape and murder?
Look at my quote I said it's okay to kill animals for food not for some thing like leisure or sadism. And again why not touch on the plants are living things argument?

And btw morality is relative.

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quicky008

Technomancer
Someone here suggested earlier that if one witnesses how brutally animals are slaughtered for human consumption then he'll probably never touch meat again.I'd like to make an addendum to it,if i may:while the shrieks and cries of helpless animals that are being butchered in cold blood may fail to perturb many individuals that are rather jaded or hard-hearted by nature,i think if one such person decides to stand in the vicinity of an abattoir or meat shop and inhale the horrible stench that emanates from those accursed places for a few minutes,then in all likelihood he'll feel so repulsed and disgusted by it that he'll eventually decide to stop eating meat for good(saying this from experience,unless of course the person in question is so apathetic that something as foul as the smell of death itself fails to affect him) .
 

ratul

█████████████████
I kill mosquitoes everyday...

I really like this. Even if we say that plants don't have conciousness, mosquitoes, cockroaches, spider, they all have. And we kill them not even for food, but just coz we are disgusted by them, and want to get rid of them asap.:emoji_star2::emoji_hammer: Morality here, if you see, is gone for a total spin. But most of us don't care, coz they don't scream, and just are squatted and dead in a second. Same should be with animals, instead of slowly killing them, just kill them instantaneously, without any sufference. Though i don't agree with the mal-practices in today's world regarding inhuman breeding of poultry just for food, but we humans have exploded at such a rapid pace in past century, that it has become a necessity now.

Someone here suggested earlier that if one witnesses how brutally animals are slaughtered for human consumption then he'll probably never touch meat again.I'd like to make an addendum to it,if i may:while the shrieks and cries of helpless animals that are being butchered in cold blood may fail to perturb many individuals that are rather jaded or hard-hearted by nature,i think if one such person decides to stand in the vicinity of an abattoir or meat shop and inhale the horrible stench that emanates from those accursed places for a few minutes,then in all likelihood he'll feel so repulsed and disgusted by it that he'll eventually decide to stop eating meat for good(saying this from experience,unless of course the person in question is so apathetic that something as foul as the smell of death itself fails to affect him) .

Yup, even I don't like the smell of Jimikand, Pumpkin, Radish, Garlic, Onion and so on. So many vegetables have such a bad stench, yet after cooking, they are good to eat. Same is the case with non-veg, bad stench before cooking, if you cook correctly, no smell, and wonderful taste. :emoji_grin::emoji_stuck_out_tongue:
I would say, don't poke your nose in other's food taste, and just enjoy your meal. :emoji_apple::emoji_avocado::emoji_bacon::emoji_poultry_leg::emoji_cooking:
 
OP
Ronnie012

Ronnie012

Earthling
There is no absolute statement regarding superiority of veg & non-veg foods.For people living in colder climates like North USA,Canada,Russia,Nordic Countries,eating non-veg has both evolutionary & practical benefits.For people in hotter/tropical climates it is more of a taste preference.Both veg & non-veg foods have their own strengths & weaknesses but as long as a person's genetic makeup can support it,there is no issue with either.
I agree. Also one's diet may depend upon one's health condition. A patient might have to opt for a vegetarian or a non-vegetarian diet as prescribed by doctors depending upon that patient's health condition.
 
OP
Ronnie012

Ronnie012

Earthling
Someone here suggested earlier that if one witnesses how brutally animals are slaughtered for human consumption then he'll probably never touch meat again.I'd like to make an addendum to it,if i may:while the shrieks and cries of helpless animals that are being butchered in cold blood may fail to perturb many individuals that are rather jaded or hard-hearted by nature,i think if one such person decides to stand in the vicinity of an abattoir or meat shop and inhale the horrible stench that emanates from those accursed places for a few minutes,then in all likelihood he'll feel so repulsed and disgusted by it that he'll eventually decide to stop eating meat for good(saying this from experience,unless of course the person in question is so apathetic that something as foul as the smell of death itself fails to affect him) .
Agreed to an extent. But not all slaughterhouses are brutal. And no, I don't think anyone who witnesses a butcher going about his act is brutal or hard-hearted. Neither do I think the stench emanating from a slaughterhouse is as horrible compared to say, rotten tomatoes,garbage, faecal matter etc.
 

quicky008

Technomancer
Yup, even I don't like the smell of Jimikand, Pumpkin, Radish, Garlic, Onion and so on. So many vegetables have such a bad stench, yet after cooking, they are good to eat. Same is the case with non-veg, bad stench before cooking, if you cook correctly, no smell, and wonderful taste. :emoji_grin::emoji_stuck_out_tongue:
I would say, don't poke your nose in other's food taste, and just enjoy your meal. :emoji_apple::emoji_avocado::emoji_bacon::emoji_poultry_leg::emoji_cooking:

"Don't poke your nose in other's food taste,and just enjoy your meal"-would you care to explain what this decidedly moronic statement means exactly?I've had several vegetables in my lifetime including the ones that you've mentioned but never have i on any occasion found them to be particularly malodourous,especially when they were fresh.And if perchance there's some vegetable(that i dont know of)which might have a characteristically unpleasant smell (like jackfruit maybe),i'm sure its definitely not as ghastly or as repulsive as the foul and pestilential odour that emanates from a slaughterhouse. However a vegetable starts to emit a sort of putrid odour when it begins to rot,and that serves as an indication that its no longer fit for consumption and therefore,should be discarded.

As you've been particularly emphatic on the fact that you consume vegetables that have "such a bad stench",i can't help but wonder how on earth could that be possible-say,you're not in the habit of having rotten veggies for your meals,are you?
 
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quicky008

Technomancer
Agreed to an extent. But not all slaughterhouses are brutal. And no, I don't think anyone who witnesses a butcher going about his act is brutal or hard-hearted. Neither do I think the stench emanating from a slaughterhouse is as horrible compared to say, rotten tomatoes,garbage, faecal matter etc.

How could a slaughterhouse not be brutal?Animals are routinely tortured to death ruthlessly at such places,therefore i daresay slaughterhouses are the very epitome of brutality and savagery(whether they kill animals instantly there or through a slow,painful method is immaterial-i'm sure you'll agree that the act of killing,in itself,is a very heinous and a cruel thing.)

And i'm not suggesting that anyone who witnesses a butcher going about his business of slitting animals' throats or tearing them apart from limb to limb relentlessly even when they are fully conscious is hard-hearted per se,i'm merely saying that anyone who sees it but feels not even the slightest bit of revulsion about it or worse,finds it to be a very delightful and enjoyable spectacle(i know there are many that do)are callous (or perhaps even sadistic)by nature.

And if the stench of slaughterhouses doesn't really bother you as much as certain other smelly things that you've alluded to,then i don't know what to say(personally i think it smells just as bad as they do,if not far worse).However the prime difference between them is that we don't put things like garbage,excrement etc into our mouths because they smell so bad but people actually turn out in droves to purchase the by-product that comes out of those stinking & blood-soaked slaughterhouses so that they can feast upon them with much joy and gusto,which is not only ironic but also unfortunate to say the least!
 
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Nerevarine

Incarnate
The "halal" style butchering is even more barbaric, id prefer if the animals were to die, they die as fast as possible with the minimum amount of time they suffer.
Halal style killing is beyond inhumane..
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
^^a widely popular myth which really brings out the "don't believe everything you see" logic.A living body is a very complex machine & sometimes what appears to be one thing to human's naked eye might be a completely opposite thing at biological level not visible to human eye.

To put it in layman's term on a forum like this,one can shut down a pc either by clicking shut down in OS or simply pull the power/psu plug from UPS/power outlet.For an illiterate person knowing nothing about PCs,the 2nd method would seem much more efficient but in reality it is not.

Animal Slaughter: Is halal killing painless? Is it more painful than conventional butchering? - Quora
The scientific facts
A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined the claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout.

The Halal method

With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.

The Western method

Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move.

Appearances can deceive

Not all is what it seems, then. Those who want to outlaw Islamic slaughter, arguing for a humane method of killing animals for food, are actually more concerned about the feelings of people than those of the animals on whose behalf they appear to speak. The stunning method makes mass butchery easier and looks more palatable for the consumer who can deceive himself that the animal did not feel any pain when he goes to buy his cleanly wrapped parcel of meat from the supermarket. Islamic slaughter, on the other hand, does not try to deny that meat consumption means that animals have to die, but is designed to ensure that their loss of life is achieved with a minimum amount of pain.
 

ratul

█████████████████
"Don't poke your nose in other's food taste,and just enjoy your meal"-would you care to explain what this decidedly moronic statement means exactly?I've had several vegetables in my lifetime including the ones that you've mentioned but never have i on any occasion found them to be particularly malodourous,especially when they were fresh.And if perchance there's some vegetable(that i dont know of)which might have a characteristically unpleasant smell (like jackfruit maybe),i'm sure its definitely not as ghastly or as repulsive as the foul and pestilential odour that emanates from a slaughterhouse. However a vegetable starts to emit a sort of putrid odour when it begins to rot,and that serves as an indication that its no longer fit for consumption and therefore,should be discarded.

As you've been particularly emphatic on the fact that you consume vegetables that have "such a bad stench",i can't help but wonder how that on earth could that be possible-say,you're not in the habit of having rotten veggies for your meals,are you?

well, either you are a troll, or you don't have any regards to anyone's opinion whatsoever.
Or a kid who doesn't understand that reaction to smell depends from person to person. My mom can't stand the smell of the garlic, can't even stand near the food if garlic smell is too strong. I don't like the smell of papaya at all, makes me want to puke.
You might not like the smell of non-veg, that's OK, I don't mind it, apart from fish, which I don't eat that often as well.
And remember, every non-vegetarian do eat the vegetables, we are omnivorous, not completely non-veg, so we know what vegetables smells bad, and what not. You are not the "privileged" vegan here. That's what I meant by "don't poke your nose into others meals", if it bothers you, leave, or else, somebody would force meat down your throat.
 

meetdilip

Computer Addict
Most people here understand the pain of those poor things that are bred and then slaughtered inhumanly. There are only 2 things that makes supporters justify it.

1. They do it. So, it must be right

2. Some bad politics is going on in this issue.
 

SaiyanGoku

kamehameha!!
Fresh meat, like fresh vegetables, doesn't has foul odour.
Take a stroll in the morning the day after where a vegetable market (sabji mandi) takes place and try not to get nauseated. :p
 

Zangetsu

I am the master of my Fate.
Halal method is painless...I doubt it.
So, that means all the innocent beheaded people by Terrorists didn't feel a slight of pain ?

And also I saw the butchering of chickens in shops, they keep a big plastic drum and just cut the vein of chicken and throw it in the drum, and after that the poor bird just flutter its wings for less than a minute before going to sleep. (so, is it painless or painful ?)
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
Read my earlier post,like I said what "you see" is not what "actually is". Heart & Brain are 2 separate organs with very different functions.To summarize,in Halal method,the focus is on disabling brain rather than heart so what you see is involuntary movement of body because of a working heart with a dead brain which can no longer feel anything.

It is hard to say how humans feel when subjected to same method as that would require conducting inhuman experiments but the theory is solid.If brain can be disabled within few seconds by any method then it doesn't matter how many times or for how long the body twitches afterwards,it will not be able to feel pain.
 

Nerevarine

Incarnate
It is hard to say how humans feel when subjected to same method as that would require conducting inhuman experiments but the theory is solid.If brain can be disabled within few seconds by any method then it doesn't matter how many times or for how long the body twitches afterwards,it will not be able to feel pain.

classic example when you treat animals as "objects of meat" rather than living beings. Its not just about the pain, but the entire duration of it. Apply the exact same logic to a human and then say which method would you choose. Again, something like that would be indescribable and unthinkable to do on humans, because well.. we're humans right ?
On the internet, people would justify any piece of shit argument, tell me then, why do we not just "cut the vein and let the brain go dead" on prisoners with capital punishment ? Why do we prefer hanging which instantly snaps their neck and kills them
 

lywyre

Cyborg Agent
I am an vegetarian who is trying to avoid milk related items. But ironically, I have just got a liking to paneer recently.

I do know a few friends who turned to be vegetarian for various reasons. I know a few who turned to non-veg.
Everybody has their own reasons for their choices. You will not take a decision during the course of this discussion, but at some point in life you may chose to be a vegan/veg/non-veg. If and when that happens, it will happen slowly over a few months or years and for reasons only you will understand.
 
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