The Mutual Funds Investment Thread

rockfella

In the zone
Why they can't ? Gold is also an investment tool and is volatile depending on Market condition. Long time back people used to invest in Gold a lot. Even now if you ask the older generation (Grand parents) they believe in gold investment.
Yes they did, not anymore. Compare historical CGR of gold and equity. You'll get the answer.
 

rockfella

In the zone
What kind of lame example is that Dude ? The probability of catching Corona is also there even if you wear Masks and Roam outside :)

Investing in Stock market or MF is not a Snooker game where you enter and exit at your convenience. Most of us select the MF based on its performance graph of last 2~5 yrs but that doesn't guarantee it will perform the same in next 4~5 years.
Making decision of selecting a Stock or MF is careful study of a Company day to day operation and by that it means the Balance Sheet/ P&L statement/Annual Report/Expense Ratio/Debt Ratio and other financial terms to Analyze which most of us don't do at all bcoz that is taken care of by the MF Fund manager to make our Job easier. That is why we pay to Stock Broker/Fund Manager to avoid the headache of looking at 3~4 monitors of fluctuating share prices graph.

And Debt funds are dependent on Market but they are less volatile than Equity.

Best of the best funds sometimes perform negatively. That's why the investment time frame for equity is long term. 7+ years minimum if you ask me.
 

rockfella

In the zone
I don;t want to get stocks as of now. Since I still dont know how it all works. I am getting comfortable with MF but was curious about Nifty Bees since I heard about it few time now.
Same here. The only stock I've ever bought is 1 share of Bajaj finance lol.
 

thetechfreak

Legend Never Ends
Why they can't ? Gold is also an investment tool and is volatile depending on Market condition. Long time back people used to invest in Gold a lot. Even now if you ask the older generation (Grand parents) they believe in gold investment.
Mostly crypto bros calling crypto an investment asset frown at gold and its investors. But this is way offtopic to main topic so that's it from my side :)
 

TheSloth

The Slowest One
Why they can't ? Gold is also an investment tool and is volatile depending on Market condition. Long time back people used to invest in Gold a lot. Even now if you ask the older generation (Grand parents) they believe in gold investment.
What I meant was that Gold prices have been increasing forever, so people invested in Gold back in 2005 or 2010 will definitely get huge sum as return if they go to sell their gold.
What i didn't know that their prices doesn't increase by lot compare to inflation rate on Indian economy. It made sense in those days to invest. But not anymore since the current gold prices are inflated a lot. Another thing whitestar mentioned was, whenever Equity market goes up, gold market comes down and vice-versa. I dont know how this works.
So in general I thought gold investments are great, back in 90s-2000s and now also, since gold prices always go up.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
Investing in Stock market or MF is not a Snooker game where you enter and exit at your convenience. Most of us select the MF based on its performance graph of last 2~5 yrs but that doesn't guarantee it will perform the same in next 4~5 years.
Making decision of selecting a Stock or MF is careful study of a Company day to day operation and by that it means the Balance Sheet/ P&L statement/Annual Report/Expense Ratio/Debt Ratio and other financial terms to Analyze which most of us don't do at all bcoz that is taken care of by the MF Fund manager to make our Job easier. That is why we pay to Stock Broker/Fund Manager to avoid the headache of looking at 3~4 monitors of fluctuating share prices graph.

And Debt funds are dependent on Market but they are less volatile than Equity.
Investing in stock market/MF(the good ones, companies as well as MFs) basically represent the trust you have in your country's economy. If you don't have that then it is pointless to argue over this with anyone. I won't discuss further on this but posting here a snapshot of Indian economy & why what you say about MF/market(good companies & MFs) is completely wrong.

1638972403005.png


@TheSloth niftybees is nothing but basically a share with around 1/100th value of nifty index(currently it is around 17000) so its value only depends on nifty index as shown above. Nifty index in turn is an indicator of country's economy & consists of top 50 companies of the country & depends on their performance for its value. If you think India's nifty index will touch 100000 in next 10 years(which many financial experts suggest) then niftybees shares bought today will become 5 times in value in next 10 years.
 

TheSloth

The Slowest One
Hi guys, need help in declaring the investments for tax deductions. My total investment was 45000 in MF until Dec but because they charge 0.005% as stamp duty. So my total investment shown in reports is 44997.75. Now, can I declare full 45000 as investment or I need to mention exact amount 44997? How do you guys generally declare your investments? Currently I am doing exact 60K in ELSS and remaining from other investment sources for 80C so i will be falling short by few Rupees from 1.5L if I continue to ignore the stamp duty in investment declaration.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
Hi guys, need help in declaring the investments for tax deductions. My total investment was 45000 in MF until Dec but because they charge 0.005% as stamp duty. So my total investment shown in reports is 44997.75. Now, can I declare full 45000 as investment or I need to mention exact amount 44997? How do you guys generally declare your investments? Currently I am doing exact 60K in ELSS and remaining from other investment sources for 80C so i will be falling short by few Rupees from 1.5L if I continue to ignore the stamp duty in investment declaration.
First of all, Rs.3 is negligible :) Second, you only show actual investment(44997 in this case) & even then no need to show in decimal figures. Taxes are collected by govt so by definition they are not your investment.
 

TheSloth

The Slowest One
First of all, Rs.3 is negligible :) Second, you only show actual investment(44997 in this case) & even then no need to show in decimal figures. Taxes are collected by govt so by definition they are not your investment.
Thank you!
Rs.3 is neglible but I was worried that suddenly one day I might get a call from IT Dept telling the amount declared isn't matching with investment so you need to pay fine.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
Thank you!
Rs.3 is neglible but I was worried that suddenly one day I might get a call from IT Dept telling the amount declared isn't matching with investment so you need to pay fine.
On the most popular shopping deals related forum in India, people skip mentioning 5 digit figures in their itr hoping they will get the notice only if being very unlucky. :) On a more serious note, IT dept does not think a Rs.3 mismatch even qualifies for second look.
 

TheSloth

The Slowest One
Hi guys!

Since I am already investing in Mutual funds through ELSS(for tax saving purpose), I do not want to invest more money in this since there is lock-in period. So I have been looking into more options and came across Index funds which is said to better than mutual funds. How true is this? I have some queries now.

1. What is the difference between these funds?
vs

2. Could anyone explain or point me in direction where I can read the basic differences between Index and ETF funds?
I got the basic definition but what else should I know about these before investing in any of the above? Asking from investor point of view.

3. Does Zerodha Coin has Nippon India ETF Nifty BeES? I could not find it.

4. So far whatever I have read about nifty funds only positives. How safe it is to invest in this for long term like 15-20yrs as SIP, just like Mutual funds?
On Zerodha and Groww these show up as "Buy" instead of "Invest". So I am guessing this is stock market. Hence the question of long term investments.

5. Since I am already investing in Tax Saver Mutual Funds, which has holdings in regular top firms like HDFC Bank, Infosys, Reliance etc. Investing in these Index funds, say UTI Nifty, wouldn't the investment overlap since these Index/ETF funds are having stocks in same company? In case market goes down, all the investments, mf, index, etf etc will go down together, I guess that is why we need debt funds or FDs to save the invested money. Am I correct here?
 
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Hi guys!

Since I am already investing in Mutual funds through ELSS(for tax saving purpose), I do not want to invest more money in this since there is lock-in period. So I have been looking into more options and came across Index funds which is said to better than mutual funds. How true is this? I have some queries now.

1. What is the difference between these funds?
vs

2. Could anyone explain or point me in direction where I can read the basic differences between Index and ETF funds?
I got the basic definition but what else should I know about these before investing in any of the above? Asking from investor point of view.

3. Does Zerodha Coin has Nippon India ETF Nifty BeES? I could not find it.

4. So far whatever I have read about nifty funds only positives. How safe it is to invest in this for long term like 15-20yrs as SIP, just like Mutual funds?
On Zerodha and Groww these show up as "Buy" instead of "Invest". So I am guessing this is stock market. Hence the question of long term investments.

5. Since I am already investing in Tax Saver Mutual Funds, which has holdings in regular top firms like HDFC Bank, Infosys, Reliance etc. Investing in these Index funds, say UTI Nifty, wouldn't the investment overlap since these Index/ETF funds are having stocks in same company? In case market goes down, all the investments, mf, index, etf etc will go down together, I guess that is why we need debt funds or FDs to save the invested money. Am I correct here?
From what I know:

1. Mutual Fund vs Exchange Traded Fund - ETFs are bought & sold like stocks, unlike MFs

2. Not the right comparison. An index fund is type of MF that tracks an index, like sensex or nifty. ETF can be of any type/composition, Nifty bees is just one of them.

3. Coin is for MF, Kite has ETFs - Not sure why Zerodha segregated into multiple products. I still recommend Groww for newbies.

4. Nifty Index MF will be Invest as it is MF & ETFs will be Buy.

5. Yes, will have multiple MFs investing in same companies. Say, don't buy 2 MFs of the same category, like HDFC NIFTY index fund & UTI NIFTY index fund. I have a flexi-cap, technology (thematic fund), small cap, mid cap & ELSS MFs. They have overlaps here & there, still, I feel its diversified enough. I just need to add more money into small cap fund as right now its share in overall holding is low & large cap is the highest. Groww's Portfolio Analysis seems nice, I use it for MFs & Zerodha for stocks.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
2. Could anyone explain or point me in direction where I can read the basic differences between Index and ETF funds?
I got the basic definition but what else should I know about these before investing in any of the above? Asking from investor point of view.
I already explained this in one of my previous post. Basically a nifty index fund tracks value of nifty index & as per a fixed formula a unit of index MF is equal to a certain % of whatever index it is tracking. In case of niftybees it is around 1/100th of nifty index value.

4. So far whatever I have read about nifty funds only positives. How safe it is to invest in this for long term like 15-20yrs as SIP, just like Mutual funds?
On Zerodha and Groww these show up as "Buy" instead of "Invest". So I am guessing this is stock market. Hence the question of long term investments.
ETFs are basically MF units sold like shares so obviously they show up as "buy" just like any other share. As for long term, it is basic knowledge that any stock market's main index represents the biggest companies of that market so as long as a country's economy grow its stock market index too will grow.


5. Since I am already investing in Tax Saver Mutual Funds, which has holdings in regular top firms like HDFC Bank, Infosys, Reliance etc. Investing in these Index funds, say UTI Nifty, wouldn't the investment overlap since these Index/ETF funds are having stocks in same company? In case market goes down, all the investments, mf, index, etf etc will go down together, I guess that is why we need debt funds or FDs to save the invested money. Am I correct here?
Yes overlap will be there but not as much as you think. Also you diversify based on your time horizon & risk taking capacity(which in turn depends on age, younger the person more is the risk taking capacity while for older near retirement people safety is the topmost criterion). Debt funds also nowadays have become riskier compared to a few years ago & it is not advised to invest in debt funds nowadays without doing proper & thorough research.
 
Thematic funds are suggested only for experienced users as they carry much higher risk than your typical large cap/mid cap MFs.
My small cap MF doesn't have much money in it, tech fund is like my small cap, but has large cap companies in it. I think tech companies will keep on growing with time, hence this theme, instead of something like healthcare, auto, etc.
 

TheSloth

The Slowest One
Thanks alot for the info and advice.
I still need to learn a lot since I am not even able to understand all the replies. But first I think I need to decide on the duration of investment.
What is the general investment duration for these funds: Flexi, small, mid cap funds.

@rockfella why do you suggest this flexi cap fund instead of Index fund? Is it to diversify or this one is another good fund to invest in right now?
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
What is the general investment duration for these funds: Flexi, small, mid cap funds.
Recommended duration for any good MF is at least 10 years & for a specific purpose like children education, retirement corpus etc. Don't confuse MF investment with extra source of income.
 

icebags

Technomancer
due to index funds bubble bursting, i am thinking of pausing nifty and sensex sip funds for 1 or 2 installments (will be effective on last week of jan). is it a good idea ?
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
due to index funds bubble bursting, i am thinking of pausing nifty and sensex sip funds for 1 or 2 installments (will be effective on last week of jan). is it a good idea ?
What bubble bursting? Before corona lockdown sensex was around 41k while nifty was around 12k & I seriously doubt you will see those levels again. Also, considering a 10 years horizon it can be safely assumed that both nifty & index will be much higher than today.
 
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