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marks in QE for IIT-JEE 2010

Prongs298

In the zone
I wanted to know whether to qualify for the IIT-JEE you need 60% in only physics, chemistry and maths OR in all the subjects?
 
OP
Prongs298

Prongs298

In the zone
But this is what it says on the information brochure and the JEE website -

"The percentage of marks awarded by the Board will be treated as final. If the Board does not award the percentage of marks, it will be calculated based on the marks obtained in all subjects listed in the mark sheet. If any Board awards only letter grades without providing an equivalent percentage of marks on the grade sheet, the candidate should obtain a certificate from the Board specifying the equivalent marks, and submit it at the time of counselling/ admission. In case such a certificate is not provided then the final decision rests with the Joint Implementation Committee of JEE-2010."
 
IIT JEE will remain based on PCM all the time. These are the subjects of research & the examiners at IIT board seek great minds who could do well with it :)
 

AcceleratorX

Youngling
IIT JEE will remain based on PCM all the time. These are the subjects of research & the examiners at IIT board seek great minds who could do well with it :)

Did you ever notice that anyone who did great research, or got the Nobel prize or any other science prize from India has NEVER scored well in PCM or even his/her degree? ;)

Even the recent nobel prize winner could not clear the JEE........The entrance exams, unfortunately are way too flawed, giving clear preference to numerical ability and "test case scenarios" instead of analytical reasoning and conceptual clarity (i.e. out-of-the-box thinking)......which is why the JEE can never get "research" candidates in large numbers.
 

abhijangda

Padawan
Did you ever notice that anyone who did great research, or got the Nobel prize or any other science prize from India has NEVER scored well in PCM or even his/her degree? ;)

Even the recent nobel prize winner could not clear the JEE........The entrance exams, unfortunately are way too flawed, giving clear preference to numerical ability and "test case scenarios" instead of analytical reasoning and conceptual clarity (i.e. out-of-the-box thinking)......which is why the JEE can never get "research" candidates in large numbers.
I don't know about your first point, but i think your are pretty much correct.

But according to second one you'r absolutely wrong. In most of the entrance tests, u will find that they give preference to numerical ability, calculations are very much in these entrance tests. These test include theory based objective questions which any student who had memorized everything can answer them easily. But IIT-JEE (or simply JEE) is something different. You will never face a problem of doing so much calculation in JEE. They adjust such values which are easy to solve. And about reasoning, JEE include many (although not most) questions on reasoning. Also for conceptual clarity, nearly each and every question in JEE is conceptual. All the questions are based on concepts.

The reason for not getting many 'research' candidates in JEE, is that most of the students who get admissions into IIT, are not related with reaserch works. They get good packages from many companies so they dont go to reaserch side.
 

gopi_vbboy

Cyborg Agent
^^ ya jee isnt enough for research..but its much hyped exam

its next tougher than CAT as ppl say...but its a mixture of time management,numerical ability and concepts....but not enough for research aptitiude
 

AcceleratorX

Youngling
I don't know about your first point, but i think your are pretty much correct.

But according to second one you'r absolutely wrong. In most of the entrance tests, u will find that they give preference to numerical ability, calculations are very much in these entrance tests. These test include theory based objective questions which any student who had memorized everything can answer them easily. But IIT-JEE (or simply JEE) is something different. You will never face a problem of doing so much calculation in JEE. They adjust such values which are easy to solve. And about reasoning, JEE include many (although not most) questions on reasoning. Also for conceptual clarity, nearly each and every question in JEE is conceptual. All the questions are based on concepts.

The reason for not getting many 'research' candidates in JEE, is that most of the students who get admissions into IIT, are not related with reaserch works. They get good packages from many companies so they dont go to reaserch side.

For research, I guess there should be some interest too.......in general I do not find a lot of interest on that side (well, incentives matter too----> You get a truckload of money from your placement job, will you refuse that and go to research? It depends, some may actually do it - but most will not).

Regarding JEE, I do agree to a large extent - It is conceptually focused, but that still doesn't change my analysis......I said "entrance exams", not just the JEE. The one thing I do not approve of, in both the JEE and other entrance exams, is that a candidate should not be expected to score well in all 3 subjects (PCM/PCB) in order to get admission into any stream, mainly because the whole point of going for a degree is to specialize/master some specific subject/topic.

For example, if a candidate is brilliant in physics and maths and not so good in chemistry, a poor score in chemistry should not lower his chances to apply for a physically intensive stream like Mechanical or Electrical engineering.

Similarly, a candidate who is very good in chemistry should not be hindered from getting admission into an M.Sc program in chemistry in the IISER's (for example) because of relatively poor physics and maths scores (Chemistry in general is not so mathematically intensive, unless you want to get into chemical physics like quantum chemistry, etc.).

I do agree that a proper filter is needed for selection of candidates for admission/interview - but you are dealing with students of varying aptitudes and different interests. One student may excel where another fails quite badly, and the opposite can happen for another field/subject. For example, I wasn't great at either physics or chemistry. Why? Because my "field of interest" was physical chemistry and solid-state, atomic, quantum, molecular, nuclear and chemical physics. I couldn't do all that well in the engineering entrance exams because I couldn't master either physics or chemistry fully. But going forward, much of engineering physics and chemistry is based on interdisciplinary fields of material science and solid state physics which I now find very easy because of my prior interest and experience in those fields.

But effectively, despite being very good in those fields, I was denied my oppurtunity by the IITs and other good institutions due to a not-so-good overall score (BTW all these principles are important for ChemE and to some extent MechE).

<Disclaimer: I am not angry at anyone for this, I fully understand......I do study some engineering course now, I could care less at this time hehe :)>

In conclusion, I want to say that different streams of science and engineering require different things from the student, therefore selections should be made on subject-wise performance rather than overall score, and candidates should be given higher preferences for particular streams that they apply to based on their subject wise scores.

For example, if a candidate gets good scores in:

1) Physics - Mechanical, Electrical/Electronics (you will hardly come across serious chemistry after the first year), Physics M.Sc courses
2) Chemistry - Chemical, Biotechnology, Chemistry M.Sc courses, Civil (yes, Civil has quite a bit of chemistry and mostly uses only the mechanics portion of physics + some electrical)
3) Mathematics - Electrical, Instrumentation (Electrical is actually one of the most mathematically intensive engineering fields), M.Sc mathematics
4) Overall score (PCM) - Computer, Instrumentation, IT
5) Overall score (PCB) - Biomedical, Biotechnology

The selection should be done on basis of these scores first and then the selected candidates should be filtered/reordered/reorganized based on scores in the other subjects.

I could chalk up an even better methodology for selection, but given the number of candidates, it would be a tough task for the selection committees. Therfore I am going to let that go.

Please do let me know what you feel about my thoughts......I meant to say very little, but quite a lot seems to have flowed out, and for that I am sorry!
 
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abhijangda

Padawan
WOW:-o!!! Dude u wrote so much.

BTW regarding ur opinion, i fully agree with you. I gave entrance exams this year. This year's IIT-JEE paper was easy on Chem. and Phy. side but a little bit difficult on Math side.
(You can find many reviews of this year paper)
Leave this.
Let me tell u about me, i m very good at physics, but a little bit week at Chem and Math side. You are right that students who are good in one subject and not in other subjects have to loose their dream of becoming an IITian.
So it means that every student will give paper in one subject only. This will only create difficulties for IIT's. They will not be able to prepare the result easily. As it will take a lot of time for them. Moreover, ranking students who are equally good in different subjects will create problems. I mean two students getting same marks in different subjects ranking them will create problem.
Moreover, IIT's want that the students they select should be of best qualities. They want diamonds and then they just cut them. So, by selecting all three subjects they judge nearly each and every quality of a student. I mean visualisation, concepts, memorization, practice etc. each and every thing they judge. So, that's why it's not possible to conduct examination where a student will give exam in subject of his/her choice.
That's not only for IIT's but for every entrance exams.
But for your opinion friend, I fully agree that the one is good in one subject and bad in another will loose the position what he deserves.
I hope that i could go for Msc course in physics if i could.
But what can we do, we have to study all three subjects.
Lets leave this process of selection for our Union Minister of Human Resource Department, Mr. Kapil Sibal and for his counterparts.

But i like your selection procedure, but once again money-time, money-time and that's it. Colleges have to prepare the result in the deadline and if they go according to this approach, they will loose money and time.
But your way is good yaar, manana padega.;-)

I am not a good writer so please avoid the mistakes.
 

AcceleratorX

Youngling
abhijangda said:
Moreover, IIT's want that the students they select should be of best qualities. They want diamonds and then they just cut them. So, by selecting all three subjects they judge nearly each and every quality of a student. I mean visualisation, concepts, memorization, practice etc. each and every thing they judge

And this is the problem.......remember always, jack of all trades is master of none.

And anyway, these things are more accurately tested in the personal interview than the entrance test......but of course, interviewing 1 lakh candidates might be a bit too much for anyone :p

So in the end, you are a diamond and you glitter, but you don't shine enough for the world to see ;)

abhijangda said:
Let me tell u about me, i m very good at physics, but a little bit week at Chem and Math side

Good for you, if you have interest in physics, I do suggest reading it as a "timepass" even if the course you are doing has little to do with physics - one way or another things all come together in the future :)

Personally, back when I was giving the JEE I was only "ok" at all 3, and great at biology. Chemistry and biology were my two "star" subjects though, I particularly used to prefer biotech/biochem/biomed related topics and physical chemistry........these days I think my focus has shifted to physics because I find the solid-state/thermal/nuclear/chemical/modern physics and bio-physics more interesting than I did those fields back in the day. :)

abhijangda said:
But i like your selection procedure, but once again money-time, money-time and that's it. Colleges have to prepare the result in the deadline and if they go according to this approach, they will loose money and time.

Yes, this is true - unfortunately, education is also fast becoming big business......:(

abhijangda said:
But your way is good yaar, manana padega.

Thank you :)

I did think a lot about it, mainly because I saw people coming out from NITs and various state universities with a B.Tech degree in comps and knowing nothing about computers other than the coding part (but hey, even coding gets you $$$ here), and at the same time I saw people with B.Sc and M.Sc degrees having a lot more knowledge and interest in the subject, but they didn't have a "B.Tech" and were thus unable to secure the same respect or jobs despite having more knowledge, experience and interest......

Anyway, I did see this year's JEE paper......I think Chem had more organic this year. Otherwise I fully agree with you regarding that paper.
 

gopi_vbboy

Cyborg Agent
I did think a lot about it, mainly because I saw people coming out from NITs and various state universities with a B.Tech degree in comps and knowing nothing about computers other than the coding part (but hey, even coding gets you $$$ here), and at the same time I saw people with B.Sc and M.Sc degrees having a lot more knowledge and interest in the subject, but they didn't have a "B.Tech" and were thus unable to secure the same respect or jobs despite having more knowledge, experience and interest......

You r right :p...i was good at physics...wanted to join Comp. science...but could only get electrical engg and was refused Comp. sc in reputed institute...i went against my will i thought...but good...its better cos Comp sc isnt a degree at all...i can now go any domain if i want...

me being electrical n elex engineer...i have been a dumb so many years sourrounded with many dumb guys studying in a reputed state engineering college...where i xpected a lot...but at lost there was lot of dissapointment for me...i didnt learn my subj properly:-x...bus 4 sal timepass huva...guess wat i m goin to be engineer in week...knowing nothing:-o


but dont forget not alll bsc guys are knowledgeable...some r there but they havent been guided properly in life coz of many reasons
 
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AcceleratorX

Youngling
gopi_vbboy said:
but dont forget not alll bsc guys are knowledgeable...some r there but they havent been guided properly in life coz of many reasons

You may be right about B.Sc guys........but till today I haven't seen a single guy with an M.Sc degree (with marks ~60% or better) who isn't knowledgeable. The same cannot be said for B.Es/B.Techs, no matter whether the marks are 80% or 50%.........

In the end, I think those science candidates are just as good as, if not better than, us engineering students, mainly because they get to choose their streams, if not in graduation, then in post-graduation....

---------- Post added at 06:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:50 AM ----------

gopi_vbboy said:
You r right ...i was good at physics...wanted to join Comp. science...but could only get electrical engg and was refused Comp. sc in reputed institute...i went against my will i thought...but good...its better cos Comp sc isnt a degree at all...i can now go any domain if i want...

I think you made a good decision in the end because a lot of the state/deemed universities have terribly outdated and easy syllabi for computer science, which wouldn't prepare you at all for a job in that field. It is much better to do courses from NIIT etc. in order to get hands-on knowledge.

gopi_vbboy said:
me being electrical n elex engineer...i have been a dumb so many years sourrounded with many dumb guys studying in a reputed state engineering college...where i xpected a lot...but at lost there was lot of dissapointment for me...i didnt learn my subj properly...bus 4 sal timepass huva...guess wat i m goin to be engineer in week...knowing nothing

Almost the same here, buddy........I had an interest in materials science and physical chemistry, and hence I wanted to go for the chemical engineering course.......Unfortunately, my overall scores weren't good enough to get me into an NIT or IIT, and my city has a grand total of 4 or 5 colleges offering Chemical engineering, only one of which has a decent reputation. Cutoffs got too high for that one, and I'm into electronics engineering now......well, at least it stays close to physics most of the time.....

This is another pet peeve of mine - more and more new colleges not offering "older" or "lower demand" engineering courses like Instrumentation or Chemical engineering......An engineering stream is an engineering stream and these two are CORE streams too - Just because a stream like ECE gets more placements/job does not mean that one should not allow students to study things like ChemE or E&I/I&C (Instrumentation) engineering. It should be more about candidate's interest rather than placement from the college!

Till today, I could never fathom the logic of deemed universities offering courses like B.Tech "Food Process and Technology", "Agricultural Technology", B.Tech "Mechanical Engineering (Chemical Process engg.)" - if they can waste time on courses like this, why can they not do one better and put up the core courses of Instrumentation and Chemical engineering instead?
 
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gopi_vbboy

Cyborg Agent
^^ am a EE ...ECE according to me has most prospects followed my CS,IT,EEE,Mech...as i had experience in campus placements...

but i believe in the philosophy...that we shud not go after opportunity...opportunity knocks door (provided we have the stuff in that field)
 

gopi_vbboy

Cyborg Agent
^^ i mean comp science is just part of physics...its was basically all physics...which was split in civil ,mech and elec...

then elec rose to so with many technologies...it had to split in instrumenation,IT,COmp sc,Elec,ECE,Etc all are part of physics

Comps science is nothing when there is no computers ...as is very limited...it was created jus for hype in engg...so i dont consider it worth being a degree....jus my opinion...
 

Ron

||uLtiMaTE WinNER||
ohk wht is comp enginering all abt? Is there phy or something other......I though we hv to study only computers/circut in this branch
 

AcceleratorX

Youngling
^^ i mean comp science is just part of physics...its was basically all physics...which was split in civil ,mech and elec...

then elec rose to so with many technologies...it had to split in instrumenation,IT,COmp sc,Elec,ECE,Etc all are part of physics

Comps science is nothing when there is no computers ...as is very limited...it was created jus for hype in engg...so i dont consider it worth being a degree....jus my opinion...

Yes, indeed.....if you pass out with a comps degree, you will have to work in the comps field forever, which is not the case with other degrees. For example, I can have an ECE degree, work as an instrumentation engineer in a chemical plant for five years, after which I can become a chemical engineer due to my industrial experience in chemical plants. This can not happen with computer engineers.

@Ron: Computer engineering is mainly about programming, microprocessors and organization of computer systems. You will learn some electronics but it is not taught in a proper way in almost all the universities (they seem to "jump" too quickly and teach commonly used configurations of many electronic devices in 1 or 2 semesters instead of teaching the devices and circuits gradually in a detailed manner over 3 or 4 semesters as is the case with EEE/ECE), so I do not think you will remember much about it when you pass out. Mostly you will be delivering the occasional seminar and coding away at some PC.

"Computer engineering" as a whole is a very broad stream encompassing aspects of many other streams. I could say a lot of effort goes into the design of a single computer system:

1) Electrical (to deliver power)
2) Electronics (the actual operation of the chips)
3) Computer (programming of the chips, low-level as well as high-level)
4) Mechanical (space, size, heat considerations)
5) Chemical (fabrication of chips, proper selection of materials and dielectrics so as to minimize current leakages in the interconnects in the chips).
6) Materials Science and physics (to discover fresh semi/superconducting materials and to research efficiency of the manufacturing process)

However, it doesn't seem that universities in our country have woken up to this fact.......In foreign countries, computer engineering teaches a fair degree of electronics and a small amount of materials science too, so that candidates have all-rounded skills to build computer chips.....but it's not the case in India.......
 
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