Is 11.8V on 12V rail safe?
- Thread starter quicky008
- Start date
chimera201
Wise Old Owl
Yeah you should probably reattach the cables just to be sure. I have that B75M-D3H(v1.0) mobo at my native place. And with a Seasonic S12II it showed about 12.2V at idle and about 12V on load from what i remember. And both the mobo and PSU are 5+ years old.
OP
quicky008
Technomancer
Well i too have a seasonic psu installed in another pc that has an asus mobo-its readings are just about the same as the ones reported by your gigabyte motherboard-around 12.1V at idle and 12v under load-in fact i have never seen it dip below 12v on any occasion.
Wish i had spent a bit more and bought a seasonic psu-their quality is fairly consistent and they seem far more dependable than other brands.I had a Corsair vx 450 earlier which was actually an OEM seasonic unit and it too was always very stable-never for once in the 5-6 years that i owned this psu did I face any problems with it.
I just hope my newly bought CX 450 doesn't turn out to be defective,as if it does then replacing it will be a very cumbersome affair.I think it will be difficult to make them realize the exact nature of this problem as most of the typical ill-informed personnel at service centers will automatically assume that the psu is fine as long as it remains operational-the fact that its outputting less than optimal voltages on the 12V rail will probably not make any difference to them.
Wish i had spent a bit more and bought a seasonic psu-their quality is fairly consistent and they seem far more dependable than other brands.I had a Corsair vx 450 earlier which was actually an OEM seasonic unit and it too was always very stable-never for once in the 5-6 years that i owned this psu did I face any problems with it.
I just hope my newly bought CX 450 doesn't turn out to be defective,as if it does then replacing it will be a very cumbersome affair.I think it will be difficult to make them realize the exact nature of this problem as most of the typical ill-informed personnel at service centers will automatically assume that the psu is fine as long as it remains operational-the fact that its outputting less than optimal voltages on the 12V rail will probably not make any difference to them.
OP
quicky008
Technomancer
i was running out of patience,so i decided to test the psu today and i've got some rather surprising(or should i say shocking?!)results-i tested the 12v rail by connecting the leads of the multimeter to the 12v and ground wires of a spare molex connector-while the pc was idling,hwinfo displayed 11.95/11.88V whereas the reading on my multimeter was 12.27V,and when the pc was being subjected to load(i ran a couple of games and 3d mark benchmarks for a few minutes)hwinfo reported 11.73/11.66V whereas my multimeter gave a reading of 12.29-12.30V(the voltage seemed to have increased slightly rather than decrease,unlike what was being shown in hwinfo)!
So are the readings taken using the multimeter the real deal?If yes,then it can be safely concluded that hwinfo was reporting completely bogus and inaccurate values.Is there much of a discrepancy between the 12v output of a molex connector and the 12v that goes into the motherboard(via the 24 pin atx connector)?Are these voltages fairly similar to each other or can they differ to some extent?If not,then i suppose my psu is fine,right?
Here's are some photos i took while taking the readings using the multimeter:
idle reading
load reading
So are the readings taken using the multimeter the real deal?If yes,then it can be safely concluded that hwinfo was reporting completely bogus and inaccurate values.Is there much of a discrepancy between the 12v output of a molex connector and the 12v that goes into the motherboard(via the 24 pin atx connector)?Are these voltages fairly similar to each other or can they differ to some extent?If not,then i suppose my psu is fine,right?
Here's are some photos i took while taking the readings using the multimeter:
idle reading
load reading
bssunilreddy
Chosen of the Omnissiah
Is 11.8V on 12V rail safe? - Components - Tom's Hardware
chimera201
Wise Old Owl
Usually the voltage would go lower on load as could be seen in any professional PSU reviews.
e..g
*www.cybenetics.com/d/cybenetics_VUm.pdf
Probably some problem in how you measured it.
e..g
*www.cybenetics.com/d/cybenetics_VUm.pdf
Probably some problem in how you measured it.
see this is why these software values are totally unreliable in many cases
I think the important thing is on idle it is showing 12.27v , whereas on load it is 12.29/12.30v .. so the delta variation is very small , this is good
as for getting 12.27v
if i am not wrong , is your multimeter a generic one ?
check your multimeter for accuracy , you also have a PC with Seasonic S12ii , test it with that as well how does it fare there ? test it with some good laptop charger .. how close values do you get there .. ?
Cx450 is otherwise excellent as you can see from cybenetics report and the tested version there is the same version as yours RPS0053 ..
I think the important thing is on idle it is showing 12.27v , whereas on load it is 12.29/12.30v .. so the delta variation is very small , this is good
as for getting 12.27v
if i am not wrong , is your multimeter a generic one ?
check your multimeter for accuracy , you also have a PC with Seasonic S12ii , test it with that as well how does it fare there ? test it with some good laptop charger .. how close values do you get there .. ?
Cx450 is otherwise excellent as you can see from cybenetics report and the tested version there is the same version as yours RPS0053 ..
Last edited:
bssunilreddy
Chosen of the Omnissiah
Calculate your voltage drop using this Calculator: Voltage Drop Calculator
OP
quicky008
Technomancer
@gta5:yes,on idle it was at 12.27v for the most part but occasionally dipped to 12.26v for a few secs.Do you think i would have got any sensible readings at all(let alone readings close to 12v)if i had done something wrong during the testing process?And yes,my multimeter is indeed a generic one.Are the more expensive multimeters usually more accurate than their generic counterparts?
I will test my seasonic psu as well and see how the multimeter holds up there-if it gives really weird readings then we can conclude that its probably acting up.
@bssunilreddy:thanks,i will check it out-but on first glance it appears a bit too technical(for a layman like me)and so i may not be able to figure out how to use it properly.
I will test my seasonic psu as well and see how the multimeter holds up there-if it gives really weird readings then we can conclude that its probably acting up.
@bssunilreddy:thanks,i will check it out-but on first glance it appears a bit too technical(for a layman like me)and so i may not be able to figure out how to use it properly.
as far as i know
if it was something wrong during testing process .. the voltages would be a lot different ..
0.02-0.04v is very small variance , so it appears good
but you can retest it once more , to confirm
yes generic multimeters aren't that accurate , and their quality varies ... so this is my first guess .. to confirm you will have to test it with seasonic s12ii / good laptop charger/some other device how accurate is your multimeter
Rest , follow advice on jonnyguru forum , members there are far more experienced
if it was something wrong during testing process .. the voltages would be a lot different ..
0.02-0.04v is very small variance , so it appears good
but you can retest it once more , to confirm
yes generic multimeters aren't that accurate , and their quality varies ... so this is my first guess .. to confirm you will have to test it with seasonic s12ii / good laptop charger/some other device how accurate is your multimeter
Rest , follow advice on jonnyguru forum , members there are far more experienced
Last edited:
OP
quicky008
Technomancer
thanks for the suggestion.Do you think these types of mutimeters are likely to give better readings than the generic ones:
DT9205A Digital Multimeter LCD AC/DC Ammeter Resistance Capacitance Tester, | eBay
MAS830L Digital Handheld Multimeter Multitester White / Blue Backlight LCD | eBay
If yes,i just might buy one for further testing.
DT9205A Digital Multimeter LCD AC/DC Ammeter Resistance Capacitance Tester, | eBay
MAS830L Digital Handheld Multimeter Multitester White / Blue Backlight LCD | eBay
If yes,i just might buy one for further testing.
i don't know much about these , you should ask this somebody else...
good branded reliable multimeters are above 1500 rs like Fluke 101 costs Rs 2300 .. while these quoted by you may be better than your current one's , i am not sure which one's actually are worthwhile and value products for light/occasional uses..
you can have a look at amazon reviews .. and ask somebody else on this/other forums before buying
*www.amazon.in/Mastech-MAS830L-Digital-Pocket-Multimeter/dp/B0093H048Y
and this thread may be of help
Cheap multimeters... what is so bad? - Page 1
to be really sure , take it to any local PC shop get your system tested there as well for 50-100 Rs , which is better and cheaper option if it's just a 1 time /occasional use case .. or maybe borrow from friend or something hopefully a different one
you will also get to know how much accurate your multimeter is..
good branded reliable multimeters are above 1500 rs like Fluke 101 costs Rs 2300 .. while these quoted by you may be better than your current one's , i am not sure which one's actually are worthwhile and value products for light/occasional uses..
you can have a look at amazon reviews .. and ask somebody else on this/other forums before buying
*www.amazon.in/Mastech-MAS830L-Digital-Pocket-Multimeter/dp/B0093H048Y
and this thread may be of help
Cheap multimeters... what is so bad? - Page 1
to be really sure , take it to any local PC shop get your system tested there as well for 50-100 Rs , which is better and cheaper option if it's just a 1 time /occasional use case .. or maybe borrow from friend or something hopefully a different one
you will also get to know how much accurate your multimeter is..
Last edited:
OP
quicky008
Technomancer
True,but the thing is no one i know possesses an expensive or state of the art multimeter-almost everyone uses these generic multimeters these days to perform routine electrical tests,and that also includes the local pc repair guys.
btw i tested the output of a generic power adapter that i use with my modem yesterday-its rated output is 5.2v dc and the reading that i got on my multimeter was 5.5v.Also i tested a new cr2032 battery that i had lying around which gave a reading of 3.3v-does that give you any idea about the accuracy of this meter?
I will also attempt to test my s12ii psu shortly.
(ps according to the manual of my dt830d multimeter,the accuracy of DC voltage readings for 20V range(and "resolution" of 10mV) is +- 0.5%+3 -what does it actually mean?)
btw i tested the output of a generic power adapter that i use with my modem yesterday-its rated output is 5.2v dc and the reading that i got on my multimeter was 5.5v.Also i tested a new cr2032 battery that i had lying around which gave a reading of 3.3v-does that give you any idea about the accuracy of this meter?
I will also attempt to test my s12ii psu shortly.
(ps according to the manual of my dt830d multimeter,the accuracy of DC voltage readings for 20V range(and "resolution" of 10mV) is +- 0.5%+3 -what does it actually mean?)
Last edited:
these cheap 150rs meters are reasonably accurate upto 5volts .. when measuring 10-12v+ they can be off.. but 5.50v on 5.20v output looks high
well your pc shop guy may not have the expensive one but likely to have a better model than yours and calibrated so you may get a good rough estimate idea of readings...
that range determines how far off they can be , but i doubt specs on these 830 units mean much at all.
Digital Multimeter Accuracy Explained | brianhoskins.uk
well your pc shop guy may not have the expensive one but likely to have a better model than yours and calibrated so you may get a good rough estimate idea of readings...
that range determines how far off they can be , but i doubt specs on these 830 units mean much at all.
Digital Multimeter Accuracy Explained | brianhoskins.uk
Last edited:
OP
quicky008
Technomancer
thanks once again for the exhaustive set of reviews,gta 5-yesterday i finally got around to testing my seasonic s12II psu using the very same multimeter-on idle it gave a reading between 12.55-12.56V and on load it stayed between 12.51-12.52V(it actually seemed to decrease,unlike what i experienced with my corsair psu).The readings were taken from a spare molex connector like before.
However on that pc,hwmonitor didn't seem to recognize the onboard h/w monitoring chip in the asus mobo that was being used and so it kept giving all kinds of weird and incoherent readings(along the lines of V1,v2 etc which made no sense)-so i used asus aisuite to monitor the voltages while taking the readings using the aforesaid meter-on idle it was around 12.096v and on load it dropped slightly to 12.00V.
So the difference between the readings taken using 2 different methods amounts to around 0.50V approximately-it seems the software readings were inaccurate once again by a considerable margin,isn't it?
However on that pc,hwmonitor didn't seem to recognize the onboard h/w monitoring chip in the asus mobo that was being used and so it kept giving all kinds of weird and incoherent readings(along the lines of V1,v2 etc which made no sense)-so i used asus aisuite to monitor the voltages while taking the readings using the aforesaid meter-on idle it was around 12.096v and on load it dropped slightly to 12.00V.
So the difference between the readings taken using 2 different methods amounts to around 0.50V approximately-it seems the software readings were inaccurate once again by a considerable margin,isn't it?
Last edited:
from the description ..
my guess is your multimeter is off on the higher side .. i.e showing between 0.20-0.25v extra than actual ..
your multimeter was also showing 5.50v at 5.20v rated charger , to confirm you can test the power brick/adapter of laptop or tv or monitor or some other devices and see their outputs they are likely to report 0.20-.25v higher as well
CX450 - idle - 12.27 v
S12II - idle- 12.55v
so in actual , my guess is CX 450 is somewhere around 12.05-12.10v and S12II is around 12.30 v on idle
and this is inline with the reviews as..
In this review - CX 450
Cx 450 at 45 watts shows 12.05V
in this review at 50 watts S12ii is 12.25v
in this review at 140 watts S12ii is 12.37v ...
in this review at 200 watts S12ii is 12.35v approx ...
So your unit is likely showing excellent results as shown in that CX450 review.. and at idle the actual voltage is between 12.05-12.10v , and on load the variation is only 0.02-0.04v , which is the important part , same case with S12ii around 0.04-0.05v variation .. and S12ii is also one of the best group regulated designs with crossloading .. so there is not such a big variation on loads upto 200 watts ( what GPU was their in seasonic system ? - likely not too much power hungry )
with VS450 you are likely to see much bigger variance on load
and ignore the AI suite/BIOS/software readings
Unstable 12v on Super Flower psu - jonnyGURU Forums
my guess is your multimeter is off on the higher side .. i.e showing between 0.20-0.25v extra than actual ..
your multimeter was also showing 5.50v at 5.20v rated charger , to confirm you can test the power brick/adapter of laptop or tv or monitor or some other devices and see their outputs they are likely to report 0.20-.25v higher as well
CX450 - idle - 12.27 v
S12II - idle- 12.55v
so in actual , my guess is CX 450 is somewhere around 12.05-12.10v and S12II is around 12.30 v on idle
and this is inline with the reviews as..
In this review - CX 450
Cx 450 at 45 watts shows 12.05V
in this review at 50 watts S12ii is 12.25v
in this review at 140 watts S12ii is 12.37v ...
in this review at 200 watts S12ii is 12.35v approx ...
So your unit is likely showing excellent results as shown in that CX450 review.. and at idle the actual voltage is between 12.05-12.10v , and on load the variation is only 0.02-0.04v , which is the important part , same case with S12ii around 0.04-0.05v variation .. and S12ii is also one of the best group regulated designs with crossloading .. so there is not such a big variation on loads upto 200 watts ( what GPU was their in seasonic system ? - likely not too much power hungry )
with VS450 you are likely to see much bigger variance on load
and ignore the AI suite/BIOS/software readings
Unstable 12v on Super Flower psu - jonnyGURU Forums
Last edited:
OP
quicky008
Technomancer
The gpu on the system with the seasonic psu was a gtx 960-it requires an additional 8pin power connector but i dont think its very power hungry.
Yes,it seems that the multimeter is reporting slightly higher voltages than normal-unfortunately i dont have too many other working dc adaptors/power bricks etc at hand for further testing and so i cant confirm this atm.But if i can procure another higher quality multimeter then hopefully i will be able to check and compare the readings between the 2 and ascertain whats really happening.
Yes,it seems that the multimeter is reporting slightly higher voltages than normal-unfortunately i dont have too many other working dc adaptors/power bricks etc at hand for further testing and so i cant confirm this atm.But if i can procure another higher quality multimeter then hopefully i will be able to check and compare the readings between the 2 and ascertain whats really happening.