I think 'reincarnation' is a possibility.
- Thread starter Neuron
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AcceleratorX
Youngling
Life is just equilibrium thermodynamics + statistical mechanics. There is a 'n' stochastic probability of you being reconstituted, however due to random nature of such things, there can be no "reincarnation" of the "you" - you are at best, "recycled" into "n" possible outcomes.
The deal is - live your life and stop worrying about death and reincarnation etc. It's all a game of destiny anyway
The deal is - live your life and stop worrying about death and reincarnation etc. It's all a game of destiny anyway
sygeek
Technomancer
So, you're saying, the same consciousness comes into being again?
1. If it did, it wouldn't really matter. No previous memory, new behaviour and entirely different being.
2. The answer is no anyway. Consciousness is very complex to understand what it is and if it is even a right definition to put it this way.
3. Consciousness isn't something that can be renewed just like that, it doesn't have any biological existence. It all comes down to 'souls' which are unlikely of their very existence.
TL;DR The answer is no.
1. You said 'universes'.
2. You used the word 'spawning' which is very very wrong to put it that way.
Brush up your knowledge. Watch some Discoverey/Nat geo.
Right now, I could have stalked you and killed you in the middle of the night, I won't.
1. If it did, it wouldn't really matter. No previous memory, new behaviour and entirely different being.
2. The answer is no anyway. Consciousness is very complex to understand what it is and if it is even a right definition to put it this way.
3. Consciousness isn't something that can be renewed just like that, it doesn't have any biological existence. It all comes down to 'souls' which are unlikely of their very existence.
TL;DR The answer is no.
I have two problem with this sentence.
1. You said 'universes'.
2. You used the word 'spawning' which is very very wrong to put it that way.
Brush up your knowledge. Watch some Discoverey/Nat geo.
How do you say that?
Right now, I could have stalked you and killed you in the middle of the night, I won't.
this random spawning of universes is scientific thought to explain mass that we can detect but that has no apparent physical manifestation
its basically 83% of the universe's mass that is unaccounted for, although thats a lot, thats still not enough for "infinite" universe spawns.
no place in re-incarnations, there is one universe, it lasts for 4 yugas and then gets remade, its a cycle that repeats itself, so all chronology is cyclic
its basically 83% of the universe's mass that is unaccounted for, although thats a lot, thats still not enough for "infinite" universe spawns.
no place in re-incarnations, there is one universe, it lasts for 4 yugas and then gets remade, its a cycle that repeats itself, so all chronology is cyclic
OP
Neuron
Electronic.
Life is just equilibrium thermodynamics + statistical mechanics. There is a 'n' stochastic probability of you being reconstituted, however due to random nature of such things, there can be no "reincarnation" of the "you" - you are at best, "recycled" into "n" possible outcomes.
The deal is - live your life and stop worrying about death and reincarnation etc. It's all a game of destiny anyway
I am not worried about anything.I was just wondering if this was possible.
It would because i don't wan't to be 'conscious' as, for example, a bird that is going to end up in a cage.
Your answer contradicts with itself.If consciousness is very complex to understand how can you answer 'no way' with such surety?
Consciousness is very complex to understand.
I don't understand why.Also it is preferable to read some books on physics.Media just bends the actual fact so that they can keep the viewers interested.
Find out what Stephen Hawking has said about free will.
sygeek
Technomancer
To be honest, there's no science behind consciousness. It's mostly a philosopher's question. And that's why it is complex to understand.
I can say no, because there consciousness doesn't have ANY biological existence. It's a process. The definition of soul completely defies this logic.
Nat Geo/Discovery isn't media. Although to a certain extent, I do believe they oversimplify somethings which can lead to misconception among the masses but that's different. If you're conspired against these channel, read some books. Maybe watch some MIT courses which are available freely online. If you believe that these are again corrupted (but still believe what your "elders" say), learn everything from scratch by self-experiments/research.
Ignorance doesn't help, get over it.
OP
Neuron
Electronic.
There's no science behind consciousness?You're are terribly wrong.Ever heard of Association for the Scientific Study of Consciousness?
And when did i ever say anything about a soul?
What's this you are trying to say?You do know that consciousness is a biological process and yet you say it doesn't exist.This doesn't even makes sense.You don't even know what you just said and you can't prove yourself smart by posting self-contradictory statements.
And when did i ever say anything about a soul?
What's this you are trying to say?You do know that consciousness is a biological process and yet you say it doesn't exist.This doesn't even makes sense.You don't even know what you just said and you can't prove yourself smart by posting self-contradictory statements.
some things you cannot learn from scratch by doing research. It would take you upwards of 10000 years to arrive where you can start from right now if you want to start from scratch. Many things you have to believe, in fact, most things you have to believe. This is as true for science as nature. You cannot really see or observe many things, again, this is as true to science as to nature. No one has ever seen a strange quark, (and nobody can) only determined its existence. No one has ever seen a soul, only determined its existence. These leaps of faith are not that far from each other, and both can be equally true. This is just an example, reading into both science and religion is inherently stochastic, best we can do is bounce illusions at each other and hope that we can glimpse the truth in passing. Because the universe has a limit to knowledge, of even information storage and transmission. Call it Maya or the Uncertainty principle or whatever you blv
sygeek
Technomancer
The best they have done is..
They haven't discovered anything yet. Although I do encourage further study towards this.
Thinking is a process, it doesn't have any biological existence yet is triggered by something which does. This is not the case with consciousness.We don't know what makes something from non-being matter to living being. So yeah, you have a heads up there.
What you're trying to say could mean,
There's a soul which transfers to another living beings upon the death of it's current being. That could mean this process has been up from the start. So, each human being is just a regeneration of another consciousness with a body. In this way, every homo sapien's consciousness is just a regeneration of a past species consciousness. Now we take this to the start of life.
Let's assume, life started from something which triggered many non-living matter into living matter. Somehow, this process repeated until finally one evolved to reproduce asexually. Now there's two species, the one which can reproduce and the one which cannot. This new species survives and the same process repeats. Now, what you're saying is, we're just a regeneration of consciousness of this first species. So there must be a life-death ratio which must be maintained so each living being has a consciousness.
Let's also assume life started from some million micro-organisms just like that (ignorance alert). Now, calculate the amount of living beings at this point, including micro-organisms. This will easily surpass the "million" organisms by a large number.
So, consciousness is not regenerated all the time but instead it just starts when a non-living matter comes into being. This should be enough.
But, let's go further and also assume that this process happens with only some living beings. Why does this happen with only few living beings and how can you explain that this consciousness (which itself independent of it's scientific reasoning) somehow magically reaches another living being randomly. This is what you call soul and apparently this is what you meant originally.
Now, each non-living matter can either come into being with it's own consciousness or someone else's consciousness. Where does this consciousness come to unfortunate beings who don't get their consciousness from someone else? Apparently, I forgot to mention that each human being already have a consciousness even before the body starts to go into infant stage. And that's the way it's been since the start (of life).
Well, the only other option is that somehow the other "wandering consciousness" have to somehow override the original consciousness.
There's a soul which transfers to another living beings upon the death of it's current being. That could mean this process has been up from the start. So, each human being is just a regeneration of another consciousness with a body. In this way, every homo sapien's consciousness is just a regeneration of a past species consciousness. Now we take this to the start of life.
Let's assume, life started from something which triggered many non-living matter into living matter. Somehow, this process repeated until finally one evolved to reproduce asexually. Now there's two species, the one which can reproduce and the one which cannot. This new species survives and the same process repeats. Now, what you're saying is, we're just a regeneration of consciousness of this first species. So there must be a life-death ratio which must be maintained so each living being has a consciousness.
Let's also assume life started from some million micro-organisms just like that (ignorance alert). Now, calculate the amount of living beings at this point, including micro-organisms. This will easily surpass the "million" organisms by a large number.
So, consciousness is not regenerated all the time but instead it just starts when a non-living matter comes into being. This should be enough.
But, let's go further and also assume that this process happens with only some living beings. Why does this happen with only few living beings and how can you explain that this consciousness (which itself independent of it's scientific reasoning) somehow magically reaches another living being randomly. This is what you call soul and apparently this is what you meant originally.
Now, each non-living matter can either come into being with it's own consciousness or someone else's consciousness. Where does this consciousness come to unfortunate beings who don't get their consciousness from someone else? Apparently, I forgot to mention that each human being already have a consciousness even before the body starts to go into infant stage. And that's the way it's been since the start (of life).
Well, the only other option is that somehow the other "wandering consciousness" have to somehow override the original consciousness.
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I would not differ in most of opinions given above BUT
I also sometimes think of 'reincarnation' , WHY ?
Because in present mind, I had some dreams which actually never came TRUE, or simply because of my childishness I missed a few things which I should have already done and now is not possible.
This is where our MIND starts to think of 'reincarnation' : To come back to this existence in the same way we are at present after our death and complete the unfinished business.
I get this feeling most often, is @OP also of the same opinion as I am ?
I also sometimes think of 'reincarnation' , WHY ?
Because in present mind, I had some dreams which actually never came TRUE, or simply because of my childishness I missed a few things which I should have already done and now is not possible.
This is where our MIND starts to think of 'reincarnation' : To come back to this existence in the same way we are at present after our death and complete the unfinished business.
I get this feeling most often, is @OP also of the same opinion as I am ?
sygeek
Technomancer
That unfinished business may already be completed by you in a parallel universe, a more plausible theory.
OP
Neuron
Electronic.
I'm not saying that a new consciousness must come from a pre-existing one.Of course there can be an infinite number of unique consciousnesses for an infinite no. of beings.
I'll try explain my thoughts as best as i can.There has to be something which triggered 'you' with 'your current consciousness' to come into being(Let's call this trigger x).Science predicts that the universe in which we are in is expanding and one day it's gonna keep doing the opposite and eventually comes to an end. But however the process of formation of (other)universe(s) is not going to end.An infinite number of universes are going to follow the same pattern.Now in an infinitely long distribution of events the probability of finding a particular event is 1.Hence there is infinite occurrences of this trigger x pointing out that you are pro'lly gonna live the same life infinite number of times.Now there is another question.Can this same trigger cause you to become conscious but with a different life pattern?
Of course this isn't a proof to anything.I was only following my intuition while writing all that.I don't really want to argue about something which cannot be tested methodologically.Of course you can share your views.
This is what the hindu mythology/philosophy states about reincarnation.As you can see this is not what exactly i am trying to say.
Of course you do mate!
You are trying to say exactly what I mean to say.
Taking RE-BIRTH infinite number of times from the same trigger (soul).
So, your theory met my eyes!!
Hence, basically RE-BIRTH is nothing but transfer of the same soul from one living being to another upon death of the former.
As far as the universe theory is concerned, it is some what correct ( courtesy : Discovery Channel )
sygeek
Technomancer
Hmm, intuition has no place in science actually. I don't know how you're assuming the existence of other universes on the first hand but if it is so, then there is no end.
Actually, we'll always be expanding and there's no opposite, i.e., big crunch. Either the universe ends with all the black holes sucking up everything and themselves or the terrestial bodies expand so far that they become independent of themselves.
Citation needed.
sygeek
Technomancer
I don't like discovery actually. I was trying to ask you for the source.For that watch the channel itself. The talk about universe / warm holes / etc many a times....
OP
Neuron
Electronic.
"A second variety emerges from braneworlds that slam into one another, wiping
away all they contain and initiating a new, fiery big bang–like beginning in
each. As if two giant hands were clapping, this could happen over and over—
branes might collide, bounce apart, attract each other gravitationally, and then
collide again, a cyclic process generating universes that are parallel not in
space but in time "
- Quoted from the book The Hidden Reality - Parallel Universes and the Deep Laws of the Cosmos by Brian Greene.Related to Brane cosmology.These are the other universes i am talking about.
sygeek
Technomancer
What I meant was, you're talking about other universes as if they're already in existence and proved but that is not the case. Although it's a plausible theory but still not proved.
Also, I don't like the oversimplification in that quote.