gameranand

Living to Play
Fallout 4 doesn't have 'role playing'. The role of father is already decided by devs. Also, you really can't be evil, the quests are shallow and rely solely on combat, dialog options suck.

Witcher or Neverwinter Nights are proper RPG compared to Fallout 3 and 4. Fallout NV too from what I've heard but I haven't played it yet.

Well....You can kill nearly everything that moves. I don't know how much more evil you wanna be, Nuke entire wasteland.
Yes quests can be shallow and rely on combat and story might not be to your liking or shallow but just because you think its not "Role Playing" doesn't mean that it isn't.
It is a role playing game with character development, customization, dialogue. And big open world, there are also many other RPG elements thrown in and you are stating that its not RPG.

You can say the thing you said about this game for Far Cry 3 and Far Cry 4 maybe. They are FPS with RPG elements thrown in. This is a RPG with a very good FPS element.
 

Piyush

Lanaya
Well....You can kill nearly everything that moves. I don't know how much more evil you wanna be, Nuke entire wasteland.
Yes quests can be shallow and rely on combat and story might not be to your liking or shallow but just because you think its not "Role Playing" doesn't mean that it isn't.
It is a role playing game with character development, customization, dialogue. And big open world, there are also many other RPG elements thrown in and you are stating that its not RPG.

You can say the thing you said about this game for Far Cry 3 and Far Cry 4 maybe. They are FPS with RPG elements thrown in. This is a RPG with a very good FPS element.

To me Fallout 4 also felt less of an RPG than fallout 3 and NV. Just to give you an example, previous titles had different approach when talking to NPCs (and also outcomes). But in F4

Dialogue 1 -Yes in polite way
Dialogue 2- Yes in sarcastic way
Dialogue 3- Yes in cold way
Dialogue 4- No straight forward

If I were to sum up F4 : Settlements, Huge map, Gun modding, Junk carrying and annoying Preston
 

Pasapa

Live to die another day
To me Fallout 4 also felt less of an RPG than fallout 3 and NV. Just to give you an example, previous titles had different approach when talking to NPCs (and also outcomes). But in F4

Dialogue 1 -Yes in polite way
Dialogue 2- Yes in sarcastic way
Dialogue 3- Yes in cold way
Dialogue 4- No straight forward

If I were to sum up F4 : Settlements, Huge map, Gun modding, Junk carrying and annoying Preston
But but what about the cool armour?

Sent from my XT1572 using Tapatalk
 

Piyush

Lanaya
But but what about the cool armour?

Sent from my XT1572 using Tapatalk

Ah right, Power armor, making the survival difficulty pretty easy as well. I didnt use it that much except when the quests required them. I just made a separate shack where I stored all of my power armor linearly.
 

gameranand

Living to Play
I never said that Fallout 4 is better than previous games or any game for that matter but you can't take the RPG genre from this game. It qualifies as RPG in all scenario. Yes you can say that they are implemented poorly but they are implemented and that makes this a RPG. A good RPG, NO but it is a RPG game with good FPS part.
 

aniketdawn.89

Wise Old Owl
I never said that Fallout 4 is better than previous games or any game for that matter but you can't take the RPG genre from this game. It qualifies as RPG in all scenario. Yes you can say that they are implemented poorly but they are implemented and that makes this a RPG. A good RPG, NO but it is a RPG game with good FPS part.
Of course man, I agree to what you say completely. It is just sad is all. Bethesda need motivation.

Sent from my XT1033 using Tapatalk
 

gameranand

Living to Play
Of course man, I agree to what you say completely. It is just sad is all. Bethesda need motivation.

Sent from my XT1033 using Tapatalk
Well obviously. They are just riding on the success of ES and Fallout series. I mean they have acquires many developing studios but Bethesda Softworks have only made ES and Fallout series which are major games. Even the acquired studios have not made games which are exceptional in the past. Dishonored was good and so was Wolfstein The New Order but certainly not exceptional. They are now just milking the series. Look at the recent DLC policy. They used to be GOTY every time they released the game, Fallout 3, Skyrim, Oblivion all were GOTY. Now F4 failed and they didn't learnt $hit from CDPR who stole the award. Its pathetic really.
 

aniketdawn.89

Wise Old Owl
Well obviously. They are just riding on the success of ES and Fallout series. I mean they have acquires many developing studios but Bethesda Softworks have only made ES and Fallout series which are major games. Even the acquired studios have not made games which are exceptional in the past. Dishonored was good and so was Wolfstein The New Order but certainly not exceptional. They are now just milking the series. Look at the recent DLC policy. They used to be GOTY every time they released the game, Fallout 3, Skyrim, Oblivion all were GOTY. Now F4 failed and they didn't learnt $hit from CDPR who stole the award. Its pathetic really.
Really? As far as I know, only oblivion and fo3 got goty. NV missed it and not sure about skyrim - we have a legendary edition right? Not goty. I may be wrong though

Sent from my XT1033 using Tapatalk
 

gameranand

Living to Play
Really? As far as I know, only oblivion and fo3 got goty. NV missed it and not sure about skyrim - we have a legendary edition right? Not goty. I may be wrong though

Sent from my XT1033 using Tapatalk
NV missed it but it was outsourced to Obsidian. Skyrim won GOTY at most places so you can consider it as GOTY.
 

Nerevarine

Incarnate
Very much agree with Piyush, Bethesda lost the awesome "lore" aspect to their games a few years back.. their older games had a rich content of lore and memorable characters.. True, Bethesda games were never about individual choices and how it affected the gameworld like Bioware or CDPR games but they had an immense amount of backstory about the world in their older games.. All of these good things are gone in recent games and thats why they appear "Shallow"..

The recent games do not feel "hard" at all from a RPG perspective.. Im not talking about raising the stats of enemies so it will appear hard artificially..Lemme give an example :
In Skyrim, the vampire cure quest, just required you to speak to some mage's guild member about a possible cure rumor and he'll point you to a guy in a random village, you talk to said guy, get him black soulstone and bam you're done..

In Morrowind, being a Vampire was a massive pain in the *******, you take sun damage during day time so you will need to pass the day indoors, there is no fast travel and silt strider travel guys wont talk to you as you're a vampire.. Only mages guild will help you teleport from place to place but the best part is, you have no idea if there is even a cure to vampirism.. Only by talking to specific NPCs, you get a small clue to investigate a hidden library in a city where you will find the private diary of a vampire who turned human.. In it he will explain certain set of steps that he did to get cured, including travelling to the summit of red mountain and leaving an offering to a shrine etc etc..
The moment I was cured, I exclaimed a sigh of relief.. THAT was memorable !
All this you have to do with no quest markers to guide you, you will have to follow basic directions in written format.. I understand that quest markers are a necessity now that the size of SKyrim and Fallout are massive compared to morrowind but the whole game has turned into a quest marker follow simulator lol.. Hope Bethesda figures out a balance ..

#Rant over
 
OP
Desmond

Desmond

Destroy Erase Improve
Staff member
Admin
Very much agree with Piyush, Bethesda lost the awesome "lore" aspect to their games a few years back.. their older games had a rich content of lore and memorable characters.. True, Bethesda games were never about individual choices and how it affected the gameworld like Bioware or CDPR games but they had an immense amount of backstory about the world in their older games.. All of these good things are gone in recent games and thats why they appear "Shallow"..

The recent games do not feel "hard" at all from a RPG perspective.. Im not talking about raising the stats of enemies so it will appear hard artificially..Lemme give an example :
In Skyrim, the vampire cure quest, just required you to speak to some mage's guild member about a possible cure rumor and he'll point you to a guy in a random village, you talk to said guy, get him black soulstone and bam you're done..

In Morrowind, being a Vampire was a massive pain in the *******, you take sun damage during day time so you will need to pass the day indoors, there is no fast travel and silt strider travel guys wont talk to you as you're a vampire.. Only mages guild will help you teleport from place to place but the best part is, you have no idea if there is even a cure to vampirism.. Only by talking to specific NPCs, you get a small clue to investigate a hidden library in a city where you will find the private diary of a vampire who turned human.. In it he will explain certain set of steps that he did to get cured, including travelling to the summit of red mountain and leaving an offering to a shrine etc etc..
The moment I was cured, I exclaimed a sigh of relief.. THAT was memorable !
All this you have to do with no quest markers to guide you, you will have to follow basic directions in written format.. I understand that quest markers are a necessity now that the size of SKyrim and Fallout are massive compared to morrowind but the whole game has turned into a quest marker follow simulator lol.. Hope Bethesda figures out a balance ..

#Rant over

There has been a recent trend at Bethsoft where in they are making their games more and more accessible to casual gamers. It is a disturbing trend for hardcore gamers like us, but from a business point of view it seems understandable. There is a larger market for casual gamers than hardcore gamers, mostly because every Tom, Dick and Harry owns a console these days. If they want to tap into this market, they cannot release something too deep or too complex otherwise they risk turning-off the casuals which would result in lost revenue opportunities. Quoting a comment someone made on reddit: "There is a difference between a company that makes money and a company that makes games."

That being said, the effects of such "watering down" of Bethsoft games is very observable over the years. I haven't played much Morrowind since I started playing the Elder Scrolls series from Oblivion onwards. What Morrowind and Oblivion had in common was the stats, star-signs, classes, skills and faction affinity. Star-signs that you were born under granted you various bonuses while the character classes assigned your major and minor skills. The only way to level up was to grind your major skills. Such a mechanic was somewhat restrictive since your character was locked into playing a very specific role (stealth, combat, magic or combinations of these). But it is good since you would have very specific ways of solving your quests according to your character class, since in real life you'd tend to solve problems based on your aptitude.

Fallout 3 came out after Oblivion and it had similar mechanics. But unlike the current Fallout, it had serious depth, interesting characters and locations, and a deep storyline. Only downside I felt about Fallout 3 when it came out was that it had a very definitive ending. Which led to me postponing the main quest because once you finished the main quest, the game would end. Bethsoft however remedied that when they released the Broken Steel DLC, which allowed you to continue after the main quest ends. Fallout 3 also had a very deep karma system, too low karma and bounty hunters would come after you, too high and mercenaries would come after you.

Skyrim and subsequently Fallout 4 lack a lot of aspects of their predecessors. Mostly lack of depth, simplified dialogue trees, simplified mechanics etc. This has been a major complaint from many long time fans of Bethsoft games, that they have been "dumbing down" their favourite franchise. Though most of it could be attributed to the business related decisions as I have said above, some people attribute this to different teams working on these games. In other words, the team that worked on Skyrim is not the same team that worked on Oblivion and the team that worked on Oblivion is not the same that worked on Morrowind, same goes for Fallout. Therefore, stylistic and gameplay mechanics may differ across different iterations of the games. For example, the lead designer of Oblivion was the same guy who later designed Kingdoms Of Amalur and you can see that they are both similarly styled.

In the future, I think games will become more and more casual as publishers try to broaden their markets. Companies like Konami are even giving up their game development division to concentrate on mobile games and pachinko machines. But I am hopeful that even if one company departs or gives up their core ideals, someone else would rise in their wake. We must all be thankful to CDPR in this regard.
 

sam_738844

Wise Old Owl
so is fallout 4 worth the time?, for someone who would need a little more convincing thoughts for a total newcomer in fallout universe? or is it just a big-ass map exploration FPS-PG?
 

aniketdawn.89

Wise Old Owl
so is fallout 4 worth the time?, for someone who would need a little more convincing thoughts for a total newcomer in fallout universe? or is it just a big-ass map exploration FPS-PG?
Big ass map exploration, with kill everything on sight.

But fun nonetheless as this is fallout in its core. Get it on discount though, not worth 3k IMO.

It does have its RPG elements as well, not completely fps.

Sent from my XT1033 using Tapatalk
 

Piyush

Lanaya
There has been a recent trend at Bethsoft where in they are making their games more and more accessible to casual gamers. It is a disturbing trend for hardcore gamers like us, but from a business point of view it seems understandable. There is a larger market for casual gamers than hardcore gamers, mostly because every Tom, Dick and Harry owns a console these days. If they want to tap into this market, they cannot release something too deep or too complex otherwise they risk turning-off the casuals which would result in lost revenue opportunities. Quoting a comment someone made on reddit: "There is a difference between a company that makes money and a company that makes games."

That being said, the effects of such "watering down" of Bethsoft games is very observable over the years. I haven't played much Morrowind since I started playing the Elder Scrolls series from Oblivion onwards. What Morrowind and Oblivion had in common was the stats, star-signs, classes, skills and faction affinity. Star-signs that you were born under granted you various bonuses while the character classes assigned your major and minor skills. The only way to level up was to grind your major skills. Such a mechanic was somewhat restrictive since your character was locked into playing a very specific role (stealth, combat, magic or combinations of these). But it is good since you would have very specific ways of solving your quests according to your character class, since in real life you'd tend to solve problems based on your aptitude.

Fallout 3 came out after Oblivion and it had similar mechanics. But unlike the current Fallout, it had serious depth, interesting characters and locations, and a deep storyline. Only downside I felt about Fallout 3 when it came out was that it had a very definitive ending. Which led to me postponing the main quest because once you finished the main quest, the game would end. Bethsoft however remedied that when they released the Broken Steel DLC, which allowed you to continue after the main quest ends. Fallout 3 also had a very deep karma system, too low karma and bounty hunters would come after you, too high and mercenaries would come after you.

Skyrim and subsequently Fallout 4 lack a lot of aspects of their predecessors. Mostly lack of depth, simplified dialogue trees, simplified mechanics etc. This has been a major complaint from many long time fans of Bethsoft games, that they have been "dumbing down" their favourite franchise. Though most of it could be attributed to the business related decisions as I have said above, some people attribute this to different teams working on these games. In other words, the team that worked on Skyrim is not the same team that worked on Oblivion and the team that worked on Oblivion is not the same that worked on Morrowind, same goes for Fallout. Therefore, stylistic and gameplay mechanics may differ across different iterations of the games. For example, the lead designer of Oblivion was the same guy who later designed Kingdoms Of Amalur and you can see that they are both similarly styled.

In the future, I think games will become more and more casual as publishers try to broaden their markets. Companies like Konami are even giving up their game development division to concentrate on mobile games and pachinko machines. But I am hopeful that even if one company departs or gives up their core ideals, someone else would rise in their wake. We must all be thankful to CDPR in this regard.

True. Bethesda employees a considerable amount of people. There was a survey 1 yr back which listed the appx number of workforce behind major gaming industry. IIRC Bethesda was in top 3 I think, others being Riot games, EA games (because they participate in mobile platform greatly as well and few more. So they have to focus on financial matter more than the question "casual or hardcore target audience".
 
OP
Desmond

Desmond

Destroy Erase Improve
Staff member
Admin
so is fallout 4 worth the time?, for someone who would need a little more convincing thoughts for a total newcomer in fallout universe? or is it just a big-ass map exploration FPS-PG?

If you are used to sinking time in games, then you should be perfectly at home here.
 
Top Bottom