7 Reasons Why Microsoft is Doomed!

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iMav

The Devil's Advocate
some 1 mentioned that ms took 5 years to come with vista ... aur kitna time chahye

ms came with a version after 5 years and always have maintained a considerable time between new versions on the contrary theres an alternative that comes with a new version every 6 months ...
 

gxsaurav

You gave been GXified
Help~Is~Here said:
I'm really not going to waste my time trying to pick each point and manipulate it to something that you didn't mean like you did. Hmm.. hard to convince fanboys like you @gx.
Didn't u asked us fanboys to reply in this this thread in your first post itself by saying

I'm quite sure 'gx' and 'imav' will have lot of comments on this one! :grin:

Why r u afraid to listen to the valid explanation?

Why do you have to sperate each and every sentence I quote so that they seem completely irrelevant to what I said and something meaningless? if you want to quote from now on, please quote the entire paragraph and then explain what you would like to. Because when I write, one sentence is linked to the other. So stop manipulating what I said!

Overall your posts have no connection to reality or business sence. Thre I said it, now bite me :D

Talking about Win98 doesn't mean or point to the fact that we should all go back to 98. It simply implies how microsoft has disregarded it's existing base along the journey of new operating systems!

Since u really don't know how a business & Windows work, I m gonna give u a real world example.

I have a maruti zen car. Its a nice car, it lets me drive to my office. It gives me space, design, milage etc.

Now maruti designer & developed a new engine. They found that the old brake system isn't good enough for this new engine's power so they make a new brake system. Then they saw that the engine is not fitting in existing Zen's chassis, so they made a new chassis, but this means making a whole new car. So they made a whole new car with new engine, brake system etc.

But now, according to your logc if maruti sales them, it is wrong. Instead they should let me upgrade the engine in my existing zen even if it doesn't fits. i can use some hammer time.....it will fit after all :D. Maruti should forget all there research & developement cost & give the engine to me for free so that I can somehow fit it in my existing zen instead of new Swift.

@gx, on another thread too, I asked you to learn something, I guess you haven't learnt it yet.

When u mentioned that DirectX 10 can be given in Windows 98, & why do we need DirectX 10 over DirectX 9c, or the only thing vista has over XP is DirectX 10, that explaind to me, to every gamer & every user here who is reading this the level of knowledge u have.

U tell me, why don't u use Ubuntu 4.04 still, why upgrade to Ubuntu 7.04? Whats the point? U can always update the kernel seperately, install new version of GNOME on Ubuntu 4.04, install new VLC & gstreamer, so why do u install full Ubuntu 7.04 instead of updating existing one.
 
OP
Help~Is~Here

Help~Is~Here

Banned
^^ You simply don't get the point, do you? I figured out long way back there is no point in arguing with you, so I'll leave it to your ignorance and keep driving your zen.

Anyways for the rest of you who is listening to gx's beautifully manipulation of what I said, just to make it clear, read what I posted rather than what someone else interprets what he thought I was saying.

iMav said:
@gx arre chill yaar ... :lol:

help~is~here branded computers come with linux also ;)

That's what I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, and could you possibly give me an answer as why that is?
 
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gxsaurav

You gave been GXified
Help~Is~Here said:
^^ You simply don't get the point, do you? I figured out long way back there is no point in arguing with you, so I'll leave it to your ignorance and keep driving your zen.
If you cannot listen to some explanation of Microsoft's choice of such business practise, then don't bother saying they are doomed. When u don't know how & why they make money, u shouldn't be saying they are doomed.

Seriously, u tell me one thing. JUst take that example for Maruti Zen, & place DX 10 in place of it, Then tell me whether DirctX 10 would fit in Windows 98's kernel. It can't even fit in Windows XP without a massive kernel re-write. Instead of giving that as a free upgrade they made it available as Vista where DX10 fits properly.

U were comparing it to Linux , tell me ....why do u update to Ubuntu 7.04 & not run Ubuntu 4.04 only by updating Kernel, GNOME, Gstreamer packages in it. Why do they update the whole distro?

That's what I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, and could you possibly give me an answer as why that is?

Hardware manufacturers give what the customer wants. People asked for AMD so dell started giving AMD, U didn't say at that time that Intel is going down, intel is monopoly, then why now? How many computer models Dell is giving Ubuntu on? If tomorrow people start asking for IBM AIX or SGI IRIX, Dell will also give that, simple.....whats to explain in it?
 

infra_red_dude

Wire muncher!
gx_saurav said:
Seriously, u tell me one thing. JUst take that example for Maruti Zen, & place DX 10 in place of it, Then tell me whether DirctX 10 would fit in Windows 98's kernel. It can't even fit in Windows XP without a massive kernel re-write. Instead of giving that as a free upgrade they made it available as Vista where DX10 fits properly.
the alky project! i know its not native to winxp. but cudn't MS haf provided a wrapper for dx10 for winxp? i mean i can understand that asking dx10 support for win98 is jus too much. but MS can't neglect winxp at this moment.

*www.fallingleafsystems.com/compatibility/

gx_saurav said:
U were comparing it to Linux , tell me ....why do u update to Ubuntu 7.04 & not run Ubuntu 4.04 only by updating Kernel, GNOME, Gstreamer packages in it. Why do they update the whole distro?
yes, you can. you don't need to upgrade to 7.04. it will run very well. you may only update selective components. seeing is believe. so go and try it out urself.

won't say anything else here......
 

gxsaurav

You gave been GXified
infra_red_dude said:
the alky project! i know its not native to winxp. but cudn't MS haf provided a wrapper for dx10 for winxp? i mean i can understand that asking dx10 support for win98 is jus too much.
Right, do u know how Alky is working? Do u know whether the performance & stability is gonna be same as DX 10 on Vista. You can re-compile the geometry shader to native machine code with performance hit, but can u bring WDDM kind of stability to this in XP. Can u bring "hardware reset", "hardware virtualisation of GPU" in XP without the new kernel? I doubt that.

DirectX 10 can be back ported to Windows XP but this will need rewrite of 50% of Windows XP, Its better to release it as a new Car,...I mean OS then give in a service pack.

yes, you can. you don't need to upgrade to 7.04. it will run very well. you may only update selective components. seeing is believe. so go and try it out urself.
Sure, when new version of GNOME was released I asked in OSS section that should I upgrade this on ubuntu 6.06, every one said wait & upgrade the Whole OS cos much more is changed. Search for it, must be there in OSS section somewhere.

With this logic, why is Ubuntu released new version every 6 months? Why can't they just update the packages & put them in synaptic? We can still use Ubuntu 4.04 can't we, with all packages pimped.
 

infra_red_dude

Wire muncher!
gx_saurav said:
Right, do u know how Alky is working? Do u know whether the performance & stability is gonna be same as DX 10 on Vista. You can re-compile the geometry shader to native machine code with performance hit, but can u bring WDDM kind of stability to this in XP. Can u bring "hardware reset", "hardware virtualisation of GPU" in XP without the new kernel? I doubt that.

DirectX 10 can be back ported to Windows XP but this will need rewrite of 50% of Windows XP, Its better to release it as a new Car,...I mean OS then give in a service pack.
thats rite, and thats what i said! its not native!!!! but i mentioned abt the word "wrapper" and it is implied that the same performance can't be obtained. thats common sense.

gx_saurav said:
Sure, when new version of GNOME was released I asked in OSS section that should I upgrade this on ubuntu 6.06, every one said wait & upgrade the Whole OS cos much more is changed. Search for it, must be there in OSS section somewhere.

With this logic, why is Ubuntu released new version every 6 months? Why can't they just update the packages & put them in synaptic? We can still use Ubuntu 4.04 can't we, with all packages pimped.
yes you can. i dunno when you did that.. i dun remember. but the newer version was recommended so that you can get latest versions of all the packages and are manually saved from updatation of the packages (which are in no way related to the working and stability of the OS core!) but if you don't need them then even an old version of ubuntu will run fine wid jus the kernel upgrade. i told you... don't believe me.. try it for urself....
 

gxsaurav

You gave been GXified
infra_red_dude said:
thats rite, and thats what i said! its not native!!!! but i mentioned abt the word "wrapper" and it is implied that the same performance can't be obtained. thats common sense.
So, does that makes sence? When Games run slow users & gamers will again blame MS that DX 10 is slow on XP. Well...MS just saved it self from the blame.

Does it makes sence to buy a new DX10 gfx card for $200, & run the games on XP slower then Vista cos there is a wrapper used in case of XP?

but the newer version was recommended so that you can get latest versions of all the packages and are manually saved from updatation of the packages
Yeah, & thats called Windows Vista :). New technologies packaged in a new OS form. Glad u could understand this.
 

infra_red_dude

Wire muncher!
gx_saurav said:
So, does that makes sence? When Games run slow users & gamers will again blame MS that DX 10 is slow on XP. Well...MS just saved it self from the blame.

Does it makes sence to buy a new DX10 gfx card for $200, & run the games on XP slower then Vista cos there is a wrapper used in case of XP?
yes it makes sense. why think only of games? why not others that also need DX10? what abt something like aero right from MS itself? but then i don't blame them. its business. they are out to earn money not to do charity. SE cud've re written the BT stack and added A2DP support to w810i instead they intro'd w610i, widout any significant change. thats business.

gx_saurav said:
Yeah, & thats called Windows Vista :). New technologies packaged in a new OS form. Glad u could understand this.
you don't seem to get it. linux comes bundled wid a web browsers, office suite, this that and what not. i'm talking about those apps!!! you dont' get these wid windows! i hope you understand what i said.
 

gxsaurav

You gave been GXified
infra_red_dude said:
why think only of games? why not others that also need DX10? what abt something like aero right from MS itself?

Aero needs DirectX 9 & doesn't need DX 10 at all. With Vista SP1, if you have a DX 10 or DX 10.1 gfx card, it will use aero in DX 10.x mode resulting in more work being done in less GPU clock cycles. Thats efficiency which DX 9 lacks.

Aero could have been supported in XP too, but again, that requires DWM, XP uses GDI+ which means again a complete rewrite of the XP Display engine, which again means a lot of changes to the kernel. Now U tell me whether from a business point of view this is good or not. U think MS should give this in SP3 for free despite of the fact that they spend lots of money in research & development of DX 10 & Aero.

linux comes bundled wid a web browsers, office suite, this that and what not. i'm talking about those apps!!! you dont' get these wid windows!

IRD...another noob problem with u. Did u forget what happened when MS gave simple PDF saving functionality in Vista & Office 2007. They got sued. Did u forget what happened when MS was giving WMP in Windows? They got sued...what happened when MS made the kernel in Vista X64 secure, they got sued. Sorry, MS can't bundle an office suite with Vista, if they do they will get sued. MS can't fix or make vista secure, cos they are not allowed to.

Doesn't Window comes with IE 7 already?
 

infra_red_dude

Wire muncher!
gx_saurav said:
Aero needs DirectX 9 & doesn't need DX 10 at all. With Vista SP1, if you have a DX 10 or DX 10.1 gfx card, it will use aero in DX 10.x mode resulting in more work being done in less GPU clock cycles. Thats efficiency which DX 9 lacks.
yes i said that and also agreed that MS can't do this coz they are here for business.

gx_saurav said:
IRD...another noob problem with u. Did u forget what happened when MS gave simple PDF saving functionality in Vista & Office 2007. They got sued. Did u forget what happened when MS was giving WMP in Windows? They got sued...what happened when MS made the kernel in Vista X64 secure, they got sued. Sorry, MS can't bundle an office suite with Vista, if they do they will get sued. MS can't fix or make vista secure, cos they are not allowed to.
i said somthing and you completely misunderstood what i said!!! plz read what i posted again.. and again...
 

gxsaurav

You gave been GXified
yes i said that and also agreed that MS can't do this coz they are here for business.
So, what did MS do wrong by not supporting DX 10 in XP which results in slow performance? I hope you can tell HiH now.

i said something and you completely misunderstood what i said!!! plz read what i posted again.. and again...
You said Linux comes with a browser, office suite inbuilt. I said Windows Vista comes with IE 7 (Web browser) & explained why MS can't bundle other productivity application with Windows, its due to lawsuits.

Ok you tell me, was it justified for Real Network to sue MS for including Windows Media Player in XP? MS cannot give many features in Windows cos they are not allowed to. If it was not for these Lawsuits, we would be seeing Vista in a completely different state today with all the Pimps & bells.

If it wasen't for lawsuits, MS would have given 1000 of small & usefull application in Vista itself, leaving no need for 3rd party developers to exist cos everything is already there in Windows itself. I hope U will kick someone who sues MS then....cos first people ask MS to gives feature in Windows, & when MS does, other people sue MS for giving those features.

Microsoft, Damned if they do, damned if they don't
 

infra_red_dude

Wire muncher!
@GX
ur basic understanding skills need an overhaul!

what i said was this:

infra_red_dude said:
you don't seem to get it. linux comes bundled wid a web browsers, office suite, this that and what not. i'm talking about those apps!!! you dont' get these wid windows! i hope you understand what i said.
you said why do u need a new distro? i said so that you don't hafta manually update all these software which come bundled wid linux. if u dun need the new versions of these software then don't do it. jus update the kernel and specific packages which u need and keep using an old distro.

u said thats exactly why vista is here: to give u a new kernel and new packages. i said what packages? office apps, multimedia apps, scientific apps... all these don't come wid windows rather they are not a part of the os core. so wid windows you actually update only the os core componenets and not utility software whereas a new linux distro is not only about newer kernel but also newer versions of other bundled software which are independent of the os core (meaning tom, if u remove the newer version of office ur linux box will still run!) i hope you get it. if you still don't get it then i'm sorry i can't help it...
 

gxsaurav

You gave been GXified
infra_red_dude said:
wid windows you actually update only the os core componenets and not utility software whereas a new linux distro is not only about newer kernel but also newer versions of other bundled software which are independent of the os core

So, Direct X 10, IE 7, ASR, Bitlocker, Aero, A GPU accelerated UI, IPv6 support, Hybrid HD support, native support for Intel HD Audio, Windows Cardspace, Windows Sideshow is not worth updating XP to Vista?

Who makes flash? Microsoft or Adobe? So who should give the new update? Microsoft or Adobe.

Who makes PowrDVD, Microsoft or Cyberlink? So who should provide the new update? Microsoft or Cyberlink.

Thats it, I can't explain something to u if U don't know what is it that Vista provides over XP.
 

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
ird ... ur point of updating linux for updating pother application is kinda hard to digest coming from u ... in all fairness its an invalid point

@every1 else ... HiH has accepted that the 7 pints cited do not result in ms being doomed and HiH ... installing vista is as simple as installing firefox on windows ;)
 
OP
Help~Is~Here

Help~Is~Here

Banned
iMav said:
why what is :?

Why do you think they are shipping open source OS with Branded Computers rather than going with MS XP or Vista.

@gx, since you don't at all understand the point that i made, I'll explain it to you once again.

There is a very good reason why I told DX10 for 98. And you yourself with your explanations give the answer that MS wants everyone to hear and not at all understand what it actually implies. The same business tactic that you are talking about that MS uses is what no one likes and that's what is taking it down, not the products. And that is what is implied when I say "bad company with bad customer ethics"

Some of the forum users who are familiar with what I say might realize that althought I know the technical aspect of things, when I speak, I speak from the very common home users perspective. And that is something that not lot of companies do. They get carried away by so many things that the average home users needs are shunned. And that is what unfortunately people like you are also doing, not looking at the very basic picture.

I'll give you and example, when I mean DX10 for 98. From a very standard home users perspective who doesn't know much about kernel changes or what DX10 really means, he has only one question, why can't Win98 support DX10 when I've paid for it? The price at launch for Win98 was approx $100. Now, as far a standard home user is concerned, he's paid $100 for a product, so why can't it support DX10? That is where you will come with points about kernel being too large or the Maruthi Zen concept. I understand the point you are trying to make, but you don't seem to understand what that implies. I've told so many times not to compare things with something that is totally differnt and yet you compare. So, I'll take your comparison and tell you where you forgot to look for the answer!
Now, yes, you will need to upgrade from time to time when there are newer models available whether it's a car or a piece of hardware. This is where I told as in previous posts asking why MS is not letting it's users upgrade at a fair discounted price because they have a previous version of windows and not force them into paying a propostorous price and abandon the previous OS completely. This is where you are overlooking the point. Now, you might say, oh, when you upgrade, obviously you have to buy a new copy and there is not point in getting an upgrade copy for a lesser price or that you are not going to get a new car at a discounted price just because you got another car of the same company.
Let me bring back your concept of Maruthi Zen, when you get a new engine and it doesn't fit in your car, you will need to get a new one but here, you are not throwing away the previous car you had, you sell it and get a price which inturn is going to be a part of the cash that you use to buy a new car! The same with hardware, when you upgrade, you sell off your previous hardware and make some cash which you use to get a new one, so effectievely you are paying lesser for a new piece of hardware!
But the problem is that you can't sell old sofware! no one will buy old second hand sofware and then comes the issue of piracy if you sell that copy you had! Do you see where I'm coming from? This is the whole difference and stop comparing again with something irrelevant if you don't know how things work.

Again, from a standard users view, I don't care if it's impossible because I've paid for it! Why did they take money from me if they can't do it? That's where I'm asking you as to why Companies like MS are not selling their OS at a discounted rate as an upgrade for people who already have another version!!!! On top of that, they dont' allow you to sell your previous sofware because then it amounts to piracy, what the heck is all this? This is called forcing if you still can't figure it out!

Do you see where you are being blindfolded @gx? So, the next time you start arguing and saying things like, oh, how kiddish are you and I know how much of an admin you are, learn to understand what someone says actualy implies! And likeI told you in so many other threads, go learn "respect" because kids like you really need to learn it before you grow up.:D
 

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
from a simple users perspective ... 98 is hardly used ... ;) and those who use 98 cant game its that simple ... if they want to game they need a high end machine and if they have a high end machine they wont install 98 on it .... now how do u expect most wanted like graphics on a sis 6326 ....

and why oss is bundled is coz it has acceptance and ppl either want it or it reduces the price of the product ...
 
OP
Help~Is~Here

Help~Is~Here

Banned
infra_red_dude said:
@GX
ur basic understanding skills need an overhaul!

^^ +10

iMav said:
from a simple users perspective ... 98 is hardly used ... ;) and those who use 98 cant game its that simple ... if they want to game they need a high end machine and if they have a high end machine they wont install 98 on it .... now how do u expect most wanted like graphics on a sis 6326 ....

and why oss is bundled is coz it has acceptance and ppl either want it or it reduces the price of the product ...

@iMaV, please don't loose sight of the point like gx. I'm not asking anyone to go back to Win98, read what I wrote, I'm talking about upgrade pricing which is non existent where MS is forcing you to cough up money for something you already own!

iMav said:
@every1 else ... HiH has accepted that the 7 pints cited do not result in ms being doomed and HiH ... installing vista is as simple as installing firefox on windows ;)

Please, don't say something that I haven't said, read all previous posts once again if you are not clear:confused:

And I hope this link gives you the answer to Microsoft's monopoly starting a decade ago and answer your so desperate question as to what is monopoly:
*news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/78112.stm


Hot News: Microsoft finding New Ways to Stay Afloat, announcing product support for Open Source OS Linux!
*arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070905-microsoft-releases-silverlight-1-0-announces-linux-support.html
 
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