Opera files a case against Microsoft

[gxsaurav]

If IE8 follows all standards, it will lose market share., as simple as that.

Why?

 

[Pathik]

If IE8 follows all standards, it will lose market share., as simple as that.

Think, all browsers support all standards, what will people choose(use)!
IE Firefox Opera Safari ......
( .. and think as internet users, not Indian internet users..)

Micro$oft ain't changing anything, maybe under pressure they might iron out a few hard edges, but that is all.

My two cents.

People will choose other browsers only if they know that there are other (& better) browsers.. Which is the main problem. Majority of the people dont know it yet.
And praka i think even opera has passed it.

 

[praka123]

@devil:see the reference image FF failed here,but when you use epiphany+webkit engine or konqueror(khtml~webkit~safari) acid test they passes!
*www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/reference.png

 

[The_Devil_Himself]

yep FF failed in this test.Rendered the image all wrong.

 

[gxsaurav]

yep FF failed in this test.Rendered the image all wrong.

Wait a sec, that's not stoping me from doing anything on the web using firefox or IE 7, so why should i care?

 

[Garbage]

Don't you think that, you are going OFFTOPIC ??

 

[Maroons]

How do u know?

*my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2007/12/18/microsoft-sabotaging-css-too

To stop doing thing, they have to make changes to IE & release a new version. So, all they are saying is to wait for IE 8

So you believe a company which has a history of lying? What if IE8 isn't standards compliant, and EU and Microsoft have settled already by then? It will be too late to send an antitrust complaint, because it is right now that EU is investigating MIcrosoft.

You can remove the IE frontend in Windows completely. Or you can keep IE & continue to use your other favorite browser.

But many sites still require IE, so you cannot realistically get completely away from it. And before you reply: Even if you personally only use sites that don't require IE, that doesn't help for people who do come across those sites.

or steve ballmer said to u that they are lieing or its pure speculatin by u

Not at all:

*my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2007/12/18/microsoft-sabotaging-css-too

ya i know .... we cant beat u by our own merit so we will sue u in front of a biased organisation that hates u as it is

I think I already mentioned that it is not a lawsuit, didn't I? Or do you just not care about the facts?

canonical is a monopolist

No, it is not.

firefox has gained market share

Only less than 20% globally. Are you saying that if IE and Firefox competed on equal terms, Firefox would only have 20%, and IE 80%?

which again brings to the main reason why doubt Opera's motive why did not apple or firefox file the complaint despite of knowing that IE does not comply to the "standards"

What if one of them had? Would you have doubted their motives too?

and benefits every1 - this publicity stunt benefits no 1 other than opera

Actually, it does, because it puts a lot of focus on Microsoft and standards.

 

[iMav]

Not at all:

*my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2007/12/18/microsoft-sabotaging-css-too

I think I already mentioned that it is not a lawsuit, didn't I? Or do you just not care about the facts?

o im sorry its a complaint

No, it is not.

how can u say canonical is not a monopolist; they are a onopoly in the OSS world - u say they are not i say they are so cut that crap of google; apple; canonical not being monopolist

Only less than 20% globally. Are you saying that if IE and Firefox competed on equal terms, Firefox would only have 20%, and IE 80%?

and ur point is i think u r not understanding or are pretending not to understand what im saying though i have said many times and in the simplest of terms please try to comprehend the point im making if u cant let me know i will explain again

What if one of them had? Would you have doubted their motives too?

a hypothetical situation the fact that noe of thme did is grounds enough for doubting opera

 

[gxsaurav]

What if IE8 isn't standards compliant,

No browser is 100% standard compliant, IE 8 is going to use the Expression Web engine, which is the most standard complient right now out there.

But many sites still require IE, so you cannot realistically get completely away from it.

So, how hard it is to use IE for just these sites

 

[Maroons]

iMav, I will assume that you are just yanking my chain here since your posts seem to be joking more than they try to make a serious point. The Apple/Canonical argument has been answered so many times across the web the last few days that the people who still keep using that refuted argument must just be trying to make people angry, and not really being serious about the discussion. Sorry, but I don't have the time to play these games.

And what's this about speculating about what Opera's real motive is, but you refuse to say what your opinion would be if it had been Mozilla? Basically, you are saying that you are judging Opera and not giving it the benefit of the doubt that you would Mozilla or Apple.

Note that Opera is based in Europe, while Apple and Mozilla are based in the US. As such, it makes sense that a European company would do this rather than a US company, since the US antitrust case against Microsoft has already passed.

I am puzzled, though... Do you find it amusing that Microsoft continues to hold back open standards to this day?

IE 8 is going to use the Expression Web engine, which is the most standard complient right now out there.

Have you tried this engine? Is it available for testing? If not, how do you know that it's the most standards compliant?

So, how hard it is to use IE for just these sites

Exactly. IE is still required for many sites, and this proves Opera's point.

 

[ico]

Firefox 3.0 beta passes the Acid2 Test and the Final release of Firefox 3.0 will also pass it.

 

[iMav]

iMav, I will assume that you are just yanking my chain here since your posts seem to be joking more than they try to make a serious point. The Apple/Canonical argument has been answered so many times across the web the last few days that the people who still keep using that refuted argument must just be trying to make people angry, and not really being serious about the discussion. Sorry, but I don't have the time to play these games.

the seriousness dies out once the same thing keeps on being talked about - i answer a question/claim of urs then u will say th/ask the same thing in different words and then i answer it again in the same words and then u still keep using different words to say the same thing

And what's this about speculating about what Opera's real motive is, but you refuse to say what your opinion would be if it had been Mozilla? Basically, you are saying that you are judging Opera and not giving it the benefit of the doubt that you would Mozilla or Apple.

the fact remians they have not and only opera has i have said this before and am saying it again -

firefox rules in the OSS world it has itself bundled wiht almost every distro

safari rules the mac world

but opera is no where even though it has offerings for all the systems; now add to this the fact going against OSS will result in bad PR & outrage by the user community; going against apple fetches no returns as apple is nothing as compared to MS; MS is an easy target & commands huge dis-respect by OSS and Mac users which makes sure that they get public support and good publicity by playing the standards coin (which i might add as gx said is taken care of in IE8) they made sure that this complaint seems legit where as the standards issue is something that would affect safari & ff as much but they did not complain and that is why opera is crying foul against MS

Note that Opera is based in Europe, while Apple and Mozilla are based in the US. As such, it makes sense that a European company would do this rather than a US company, since the US antitrust case against Microsoft has already passed.

EU is not EU it is EUAM which is well known

I am puzzled, though... Do you find it amusing that Microsoft continues to hold back open standards to this day?

these standards havent affected me 1 bit; they havnt affected Firefox to open any site i frequent; but hey opera is the only company to notice that IE till version 7 does not follow 'standards' add to that the fact it is well known by all that IE 8 will take steps with regards to the standards issue so it makes all the more resons for me to doubt to opera's motive coz once IE 8 is out then the 'standards' issue would be more or less irrelevant resulting in Opera loosing a lot of public support as the 'standards' issue is something that gets them a lot of good will i hope u can understand what im trying to say

Have you tried this engine? Is it available for testing? If not, how do you know that it's the most standards compliant?

have u tested it or know that it doesnt, if u dont how can u refute gx's claim

Exactly. IE is still required for many sites, and this proves Opera's point.

i wonder why safari or ff havnt raised their voices on this or filed any anti-trust complaint or whatever

 

[gxsaurav]

Have you tried this engine? Is it available for testing? If not, how do you know that it's the most standards compliant?

Yup, I have tried Expression Web beta here myself.

Exactly. IE is still required for many sites, and this proves Opera's point.

Then isn't it the fault of the web developer.?

 

[kalpik]

No browser is 100% standard compliant, IE 8 is going to use the Expression Web engine, which is the most standard complient right now out there.

Any proofs for your statement? I've told you MANY times.. Please dont just pull stuff out of your ***. Give us some proof.

So, how hard it is to use IE for just these sites

Believe me, its VERY hard for me to use IE on linux

 

[Pathik]

It is very hard for me to use IE on XP/Vista too..
Opera rocks.

 

[narangz]

Arrey bhai logo ab bass bhi karo... Bohat waat laga di MS aur Opera ki

 

[iMav]

Internal Microsoft IE 8 build passes the Acid standards test

“I’m delighted to tell you that on Wednesday, December 12, Internet Explorer correctly rendered the Acid2 page in IE8 standards mode,” Hachamovitch blogged. “While supporting the features tested in Acid2 is important for many reasons, it is just one of several milestones for the interoperability, standards compliance, and backwards compatibility that we’re committed to for this release.”

*blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/images/acidtest2.png

“For IE8, we want to communicate facts, not aspirations. We’re posting this information now because we have real working code checked in and we’re confident about delivering it in the final product. We’re listening to the feedback about IE, and at the same time, we are committed to responsible disclosure and setting expectations properly. Now that we’ve run the test on multiple machines and seen it work, we’re excited to be able to share definitive information.”

Source

so much for opera's standards

 

[Maroons]

but opera is no where

Except it is the leading mobile browser.

now add to this the fact going against OSS will result in bad PR & outrage by the user community

There is no need to go after OSS or Apple because there are no monopolists there abusing their market position.

which i might add as gx said is taken care of in IE8

I'll believe it when I see it. Microsoft has made these promises before, and failed to deliver.

the standards issue is something that would affect safari & ff as much but they did not complain

Actually, both Mozilla and Apple have complained about Microsoft's actions in the browser market.

EU is not EU it is EUAM which is well known

Excuse me?

opera is the only company to notice that IE till version 7 does not follow 'standards'

No, it is well known that IE has poor standards support.

it is well known by all that IE 8 will take steps with regards to the standards issue

So they claim, but they have made the same claims over and over again through the years.

Internal Microsoft IE 8 build passes the Acid standards test

Good for them. Let's see if they finally deliver proper standards support with IE8, which they have promised many times through the years, but always failed. Passing Acid2 is a good start, but Acid2 is just testing a tiny subset of various things.

so much for opera's standards

What are "Opera's standards"? Could you try making sense for once?

Yup, I have tried Expression Web beta here myself.

And what do you base your claim on? How do you know that it's "the most standard complient right now out there"? Because you assume it to be or because there is evidence that this is the case?

Then isn't it the fault of the web developer.?

No, the web developer has no choice but to code so that his site works in the browser which owns 80-90% of the market, and that browser only offers non-standard ways to do things, or things that are specific to that browser.

Microsoft basically gives the web developer the tool, and the tool is flawed, so the result is flawed as well.

 

[kalpik]

Internal Microsoft IE 8 build passes the Acid standards test



*blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/images/acidtest2.png



Source

so much for opera's standards

Opera has been passing that test since AGES! So what's your point again? We even had MS show off a WHOLE LOT of features for Vista during alpha/beta phases, but now they are nowhere to be seen in the final release!

 

[gxsaurav]

And what do you base your claim on? How do you know that it's "the most standard complient right now out there"? Because you assume it to be or because there is evidence that this is the case?

Well...m not a reverse engg but how do U know Opera is the most standard complient out there? I guess by some online review, article or blog right...

Have a look here

Opera has been passing that test since AGES! So what's your point again?

That microsoft is going standard compliant with IE 8