See how Lokpal Bill can curb the politicians

[noob]

MUST READ

Existing System​

|

System Proposed by civil society​

No politician or senior officer ever goes to jail despite huge evidence because Anti Corruption Branch (ACB) and CBI directly come under the government. Before starting investigation or prosecution in any case, they have to take permission from the same bosses, against whom the case has to be investigated. |Lokpal at centre and Lokayukta at state level will be independent bodies. ACB and CBI will be merged into these bodies. They will have power to initiate investigations and prosecution against any officer or politician without needing anyone’s permission. Investigation should be completed within 1 year and trial to get over in next 1 year. Within two years, the corrupt should go to jail.

No corrupt officer is dismissed from the job because Central Vigilance Commission, which is supposed to dismiss corrupt officers, is only an advisory body. Whenever it advises government to dismiss any senior corrupt officer, its advice is never implemented. | Lokpal and Lokayukta will have complete powers to order dismissal of a corrupt officer. CVC and all departmental vigilance will be merged into Lokpal and state vigilance will be merged into Lokayukta.


No action is taken against corrupt judges because permission is required from the Chief Justice of India to even register an FIR against corrupt judges. | Lokpal & Lokayukta shall have powers to investigate and prosecute any judge without needing anyone’s permission.

Nowhere to go - People expose corruption but no action is taken on their complaints. | Lokpal & Lokayukta will have to enquire into and hear every complaint.

There is so much corruption within CBI and vigilance departments. Their functioning is so secret that it encourages corruption within these agencies. | All investigations in Lokpal & Lokayukta shall be transparent. After completion of investigation, all case records shall be open to public. Complaint against any staff of Lokpal & Lokayukta shall be enquired and punishment announced within two months.

Weak and corrupt people are appointed as heads of anti-corruption agencies. | Politicians will have absolutely no say in selections of Chairperson and members of Lokpal & Lokayukta. Selections will take place through a transparent and public participatory process.

Citizens face harassment in government offices. Sometimes they are forced to pay bribes. One can only complaint to senior officers. No action is taken on complaints because senior officers also get their cut. | Lokpal & Lokayukta will get public grievances resolved in time bound manner, impose a penalty of Rs 250 per day of delay to be deducted from the salary of guilty officer and award that amount as compensation to the aggrieved citizen.

Nothing in law to recover ill gotten wealth. A corrupt person can come out of jail and enjoy that money. | Loss caused to the government due to corruption will be recovered from all accused.

Small punishment for corruption- Punishment for corruption is minimum 6 months and maximum 7 years. | Enhanced punishment - The punishment would be minimum 5 years and maximum of life imprisonment.

Who is the leader of youth of INDIA .....................

ARVIND KEJRIVAL:-


Mechanical Engineer -IIT Kharagpur



Job :-Tata Steel
Former IRS (Indian Revenue Services)resigned from the Govt.job (posted IT Commissioner’s office)

Social Activist:-
Man behind (Right to Information Act).
LokPal bill

Awards Various Ashoka Fellow, Civic Engagement.
2005: 'Satyendra Dubey Memorial Award', IIT Kanpur for his campaign for bringing transparency in Government
2006: Ramon Magsaysay Award for Emergent Leadership.
2006: CNN-IBN, 'Indian of the Year' in Public Service
2009: Distinguished Alumnus Award, IIT Kharagpur for Emergent Leadership.
2010: Policy Change Agent of the Year, Economic Times Corporate Excellence Award along with Aruna Roy.
Fighting against corruption

.............He left his job in IRS to fight against corruption.




RAHUL Gandhi:-
Education- failed to secure passing grades in National Economic Planning and Policy graduated by any how
job: Got ancestral political power and running through it
Award: he is making awards not getting it
Fight against Indians sentiments

For him Terror attacks are common thing...
we should not be worried of that.....let it happen(since they have z class security)

he will never talk about Govt. policies....and planning....since he
is not intelligent enough to grasp that.(claimed to be most eligible to be PM)

Won't talk about black money and corruption.

will never talk in Parliament.

No political vision and goals for nation .

Trained well to fool poor villagers with safed kurta ..nd khadhi(doing same in UP and other places.)



Achievements:-
Grandson OF Nehru,
Grandson of Indira

Gandhi
Son Of Rajiv Gandhi....
FRom Gandhi Family.....
till now zero...





..............Claimed to be nxt PM of INDIA ..Future face of congress.

 

[thetechfreak]

someone post BBC code with table with 1 row and 2 cols

wanna post something real good

Whats this? I really cont figure the use of this thread

 

[Skud]

Probably under construction.

I guess there's an email doing the round, and he is going to give the details in a tabular form comparing it to the "limitations" of the existing laws/acts.

 

[noob]

yes, that a very good info but dont know how to put TABLE with 2 cols in it.

 

[Skud]

I guess its like this:

1st row 1st column|1st row 2nd column
2nd row 1st column|2nd row 2nd column

code:

1st row 1st column|1st row 2nd column
2nd row 1st column|2nd row 2nd column[/ TABLE]

remove the space between "/ table"

 

[noob]

Thanks..Thread updated now.

 

[king_of all]

nice info

 

[Skud]

Good compilation. Align the headings to center.

 

[Tech&ME]

Hmmmmmmm..... System Proposed by Civil Society is not implementable.

1. You cannot merge CBI and make it completely transparent.

2. IF you want to investigate Political persons / govt. officers / other civil servants without permission of any kind, then a new body should be created. (eg: FBI in usa )

3. quote "Lokpal & Lokayukta shall have powers to investigate and prosecute any judge without needing anyone’s permission." unquote

So, will Lokpal and Lokayukta itself become the JUDGE ? No Police required, No Judiciary Bench required.... that is not feasible.

4. Life imprisonment cannot be given to a 2nd degree offence. Even sometimes it is not given for a 3rd degree offence.

5. What about the Human Rights of the person committed the offence of corruption. Does human rights allow Life Imprisonment.

6. Life Imprisonment can only be given under the CrPC act. And corruption does not amount to any offence under the CrPC act.

7. Govt. of India formed "N I A" to put terrorist behind bars. And it was successful in doing so. ( Still more powers to be given to it. Trial should only be done by Supreme Court. )

8. Why NGOs are kept out of the ambit of the Lokpal ? Saw kejriwal brushing away from media on this question just now.

 

[Skud]

I don't know if you are a lawyer or not, at least I am not. And noobs like us are findings so much flaws over the proposed law, guess how many loopholes the Jethmalanis are going to find.

Epic hype, and it's going to be an epic fail.

 

[Tech&ME]

^^

100% Agree with you

I am not a lawyer but have gained some knowledge in this.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

The Aryans invaded India with the help of corruption.
Our religion is science's corruption.
King Chandragupta Maurya became a KING because of corruption.
His grandson Ashoka's empire came DOWN because of corruption.
Mughals entered India because of corruption.
Mughal empire grew and fell both because of corruption.
Europians invaded India and looted it because of corruption.
The Revolt of 1857 failed because of corruption.
Many Indians have independence only in name because of corruption.
Indian politicians get elected because of corruption.
Quality Education is a precious and rare commodity because of corruption.
The very media which talks about corruption is filled with corruption.

And people plan to remove it ?
To be corrupt is to be Indian, and no matter how much Indian cultural lobbyists argue against this statement, history sadly proves it

 

[Skud]

+infinity.

 

[eagle_y2j]

Hmmmmmmm..... System Proposed by Civil Society is not implementable.

1. You cannot merge CBI and make it completely transparent.

* Only Anti-Corruption wing of CBI is being made to come under Lokpal. Lokpal being independent like "Election Commissioner of India, CAG and CIC will definetly bring effective transparency .

2. IF you want to investigate Political persons / govt. officers / other civil servants without permission of any kind, then a new body should be created. (eg: FBI in usa )

* No effective criminal investigation can take place by multiplicity of investigation agencies and most importantly when FIR is lodged no one can predict who all are culprits so different agencies and permissions will make system complex

3. quote "Lokpal & Lokayukta shall have powers to investigate and prosecute any judge without needing anyone’s permission." unquote

So, will Lokpal and Lokayukta itself become the JUDGE ? No Police required, No Judiciary Bench required.... that is not feasible.

* Lokpal is only to investigate the corruption charges independently no prosecuting powers are with Lokpal.

4. Life imprisonment cannot be given to a 2nd degree offence. Even sometimes it is not given for a 3rd degree offence.

* Corruption amounts to human rights violation and is root cause of most social evils

5. What about the Human Rights of the person committed the offence of corruption. Does human rights allow Life Imprisonment.

* Yes ,there is no mention of breach of human rights in UN Charter for human rights for reasonable Life Imprisonment.Culprits needs punishment to keep society clean.

6. Life Imprisonment can only be given under the CrPC act. And corruption does not amount to any offence under the CrPC act.

*Totally ignorant comment ,sincerely i would like to submit as follows :

1. Cr.PC is first of all is Criminal Procedure Code not any Act .

2. Present Prevention of Corruption Act makes corruption punishable offense.

3. Several provisions of IPC also punish corruption in present system .

4.But there is lack of independent corruption investigation agency .


7. Govt. of India formed "N I A" to put terrorist behind bars. And it was successful in doing so. ( Still more powers to be given to it. Trial should only be done by Supreme Court. )

*Why Supreme Court only?

8. Why NGOs are kept out of the ambit of the Lokpal ? Saw kejriwal brushing away from media on this question just now.
*Lokpal is there to look after corruption of public servants who at any level draw their salary from public exchequer !
Lokapal can't be expected to look after corruption of private money .Media Houses corruption ,NGO corruption are not related with public exchequer.

 

[Skud]

8. Why NGOs are kept out of the ambit of the Lokpal ? Saw kejriwal brushing away from media on this question just now.
*Lokpal is there to look after corruption of public servants who at any level draw their salary from public exchequer !
Lokapal can't be expected to look after corruption of private money .Media Houses corruption ,NGO corruption are not related with public exchequer.

Not exactly correct. Lots of NGOs receive Govt. funds (ie public money) from various sources particularly from NABARD both in form of grant and loan. They must come under the ambit of Lokpal by the same logic of public exchequer.

 

[Tech&ME]

* Only Anti-Corruption wing of CBI is being made to come under Lokpal. Lokpal being independent like "Election Commissioner of India, CAG and CIC will definetly bring effective transparency . ..... etc .....

Your points re-answered below in GREEN

1. You cannot merge CBI and make it completely transparent.

* Only Anti-Corruption wing of CBI is being made to come under Lokpal. Lokpal being independent like "Election Commissioner of India, CAG and CIC will definetly bring effective transparency .

Ok, but since the JanLokpal Bill says Lokpal will carry out its own investigation, so in that case where does the Anti - Corruption Division of CBI go.

2. IF you want to investigate Political persons / govt. officers / other civil servants without permission of any kind, then a new body should be created. (eg: FBI in usa )

* No effective criminal investigation can take place by multiplicity of investigation agencies and most importantly when FIR is lodged no one can predict who all are culprits so different agencies and permissions will make system complex

I said if JanLokpal bill talks about "NO PERMISSION required" to investigate, then separate agency should be created instead of merging CBIs Anti-Corruption Division into Lokpal because Lokpal itself cannot do all the investigation by itself, that will become a very BIG TASK for it, seeing the length of this Country. Also Lokhayukta in states will not really help since they too will need a separate investigating agency to look at every case (case by case)

3. quote "Lokpal & Lokayukta shall have powers to investigate and prosecute any judge without needing anyone’s permission." unquote

So, will Lokpal and Lokayukta itself become the JUDGE ? No Police required, No Judiciary Bench required.... that is not feasible.

* Lokpal is only to investigate the corruption charges independently no prosecuting powers are with Lokpal.

Then who prosecutes the culprits... ? If a Judge is corrupt who punishes him.

4. Life imprisonment cannot be given to a 2nd degree offence. Even sometimes it is not given for a 3rd degree offence.

* Corruption amounts to human rights violation and is root cause of most social evils


5. What about the Human Rights of the person committed the offence of corruption. Does human rights allow Life Imprisonment.

* Yes ,there is no mention of breach of human rights in UN Charter for human rights for reasonable Life Imprisonment.Culprits needs punishment to keep society clean.

I am not talking about UN Charter. JanLokpal bill is not for UN. That is a separate issue. Foreign nationals are also not included in the JanLokpal bill. So, forget about UN Charter.

We have our own Human Rights Charter in India.

You cannot put everyone for Life Imprisonment. Life Imprisonment is an alternative to Death Penalty.

If you think Corruption equal to Death Penalty then Life Imprisonment can be given. But I think and most will agree Corruption does not amount to anything that will equal it for Death Penalty.

Since, Death Penalty is in-human, so Life Imprisonment is given to the culprit instead. I hope you get my point in 3rd degree offence cases only. President of India is made aware of it before execution such penalty by the respective Court of Law.

So, Even if Lokpal wants to give such a punishment it cannot do so independently.

6. Life Imprisonment can only be given under the CrPC act. And corruption does not amount to any offence under the CrPC act.

*Totally ignorant comment ,sincerely i would like to submit as follows :

1. Cr.PC is first of all is Criminal Procedure Code not any Act .

2. Present Prevention of Corruption Act makes corruption punishable offense.

3. Several provisions of IPC also punish corruption in present system .

4.But there is lack of independent corruption investigation agency .



Nope

1. CrPC is ofcourse Criminal Procedure Code and has various sections under it. To put it in simple laymen terms I wrote ACT

2. Corruption is a punishable offence but not a CRIMINAL offence.

3. So, let me rephrase it :

" Life Imprisonment can only be given for CRIMINAL offence (chargesheeted under CrPC). Corruption is not a CRIMINAL offence and so cannot be chargesheeted under CrPC. Police will not record an FIR for corruption under the CrPC sections (section 197, CrPC 1973) But Police can record with Prevention of Corruption Act 1988, Section 19 & 20 and various other sections as per Supreme Court of India.

7. Govt. of India formed "N I A" to put terrorist behind bars. And it was successful in doing so. ( Still more powers to be given to it. Trial should only be done by Supreme Court. )

*Why Supreme Court only?

Because State High Courts gives the judgment in favor of the party. As it happened in States like Assam. Terrorist were caught and brought to India from Bangladesh and other countries and the State Govt. applied for the State High Court to decide the punishment. Unfortunately they were let FREE!!

8. Why NGOs are kept out of the ambit of the Lokpal ? Saw kejriwal brushing away from media on this question just now.
*Lokpal is there to look after corruption of public servants who at any level draw their salary from public exchequer !
Lokapal can't be expected to look after corruption of private money .Media Houses corruption ,NGO corruption are not related with public exchequer.


So, who starts the corruption in the first place ? Private Companies, NGO, etc so, the problem will still remain.

 

[sukesh1090]

guys why you are fighting in the name of lokpal bill?it is just the first step against the corruption and we have to support it.after it comes in to play it will get stronger and stronger by clearing its loop holes.lots of advocate and all joined this movement,do you think they don't know anything about this bill?are they bakras to just come and join the movement?if a judge is corrupted man then why should not lokpal become the judge?if judge himself is a criminal then whats left in the court?if we wait thinking that we will make more stronger act,then we are nothing but wasting time.today lot of young people go to abroad in search of jobs,lot of well educated people are jobless,a lot of them do bad works and all,you know why?because of this corruption.which we indians think as our birth right and god gift.Within few years politicians will also corrupt the god.then i don't know who will stop them???

 

[Tech&ME]

@ Sukesh1090

No one is fighting here. We all are good friends and having healthy discussion on the matter of the proposed bill by both the government and Anna team.

As today Mr. PM said, they will take open public opinion on the matter, so we are just giving our honest opinion.

I am not against Lokpal or even not against the proposed Jan Lokpal but there are too many flaws in it.

Even PM pointed this out.

 

[Skud]

guys why you are fighting in the name of lokpal bill?it is just the first step against the corruption and we have to support it.after it comes in to play it will get stronger and stronger by clearing its loop holes.lots of advocate and all joined this movement,do you think they don't know anything about this bill?are they bakras to just come and join the movement?if a judge is corrupted man then why should not lokpal become the judge?if judge himself is a criminal then whats left in the court?if we wait thinking that we will make more stronger act,then we are nothing but wasting time.today lot of young people go to abroad in search of jobs,lot of well educated people are jobless,a lot of them do bad works and all,you know why?because of this corruption.which we indians think as our birth right and god gift.Within few years politicians will also corrupt the god.then i don't know who will stop them???

That's exactly the problem, all Indians are corrupt and Lokpal bill is taking care of govt. officials and politicians only. And that too just officials in Group 'A' and above (officers/managers in other term). So basically a separate Act will be created to tackle a minority of the 110-120 crore corrupt people. Fact is as long as you are just as eager to offer bribe as the person demanding a bribe, nothing can be done.


And corrupting God? God has given birth to majority of the corruptions of this country. Look at the number of cases of caste related murders, kidnapping, riots and other crimes. All in the name of God. No Lokpal is going to eradicate this. Neither any developments.

 

[sukesh1090]

thats what i am telling brother lokpal is just a small step against the problems of our country.none of the common person will like to give bribes.why he want to?these officials to get money don't complete the work in time then the common person have to give the money,what other option does he have other than that?why govt is not showing interest in bringing the black money back from swiss bank?because their leader the great lady herself having lots of money deposited in their.we have chosen a person to lead our country who never thought of our country,who never belonged to our country.then how can we expect our country to get going?if there are flaws in that bill,then tell me which of the other acts we are following today don't have flaws?our constitution itself full of flaws.
about the fights in the name of cast,these fights are started and encouraged by these politicians only.