Processor/CPU News Channel

OP
chimera201

chimera201

Well-Known Member
Edited thread title to make it more clear because some here may confuse cpu with cabinet.:)
Good point. My office IT guys still consider the whole PC as CPU. Some employees took the office PC home and the authorization document had CPU written in it :facepalm:
 
OP
chimera201

chimera201

Well-Known Member

One thing that stood out to me


Ryzen 3000 series really runs hot. And this chart is on a Noctua NH-U12.
Add 10°C for the stock cooler. And another 10°C since the reviewer is from Germany.
Then Ryzen 5 3600 is basically at 85°C.
Core i5 8400 runs cool in comparison.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Ryzen 3000 series really runs hot. And this chart is on a Noctua NH-U12.
Add 10°C for the stock cooler. And another 10°C since the reviewer is from Germany.
Then Ryzen 5 3600 is basically at 85°C.
Core i5 8400 runs cool in comparison.
Good catch but are you sure about i5 8400 because recently saw this:
 
OP
chimera201

chimera201

Well-Known Member
The chart looks legit as this guy is reporting that the i3 has a higher temp than the i5 8400 just like the chart
 

omega44-xt

Gear up ...
The chart looks legit as this guy is reporting that the i3 has a higher temp than the i5 8400 just like the chart
Surely interesting.

This seems like a good reason " i5 has a better mount than the i3 in terms of the IHS to die mating ", mentioned in that thread.

Another reason can be that the i3 needs more voltage than i5. An i3 is just a defective chip of sorts. Back in initial Ryzen 1st gen days, some lucky R5 1600 users got an 8 core CPU, surely was running a bit slower than R7 but still it was 8 legit cores, 2 of them AMD forgot to disable properly.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
An i3 is just a defective chip of sorts.
Actually this was also mentioned in that thread & later proved wrong.
With few exceptions aside, this is simply not true.

Up to 7th gen, i3s used 2 core die, and i5/i7s used 4 core die.
8th gen i5/i7 use 6 core die (U0). 8th gen i3s use 4 core die (B0 - the same thing as 7th gen i7/i5s were).

Only recently - due to intel's cpu shortages - we can find on MB support pages that some specific i3/pentium models might come in U0 flavor.
But, since OP's i3 cpuid is 906EB, it is B0 die - the full, non-defective 4 core.
 

ico

Super Moderator

One thing that stood out to me


Ryzen 3000 series really runs hot. And this chart is on a Noctua NH-U12.
Add 10°C for the stock cooler. And another 10°C since the reviewer is from Germany.
Then Ryzen 5 3600 is basically at 85°C.
Core i5 8400 runs cool in comparison.
yes, I think it's because of multiple dies in there. The simple "pea drop in the middle" thermal paste strategy isn't working I guess.

 

SaiyanGoku

kamehameha!!
yes, I think it's because of multiple dies in there. The simple "pea drop in the middle" thermal paste strategy isn't working I guess.
Yes, that can be the reason. I've tried the line, X, dot and spread method on my laptop's CPU and GPU. Spread has been the most effective till now and RTX 2060 has a larger die compared to the 9750H.
 

ico

Super Moderator
Yes, that can be the reason. I've tried the line, X, dot and spread method on my laptop's CPU and GPU. Spread has been the most effective till now and RTX 2060 has a larger die compared to the 9750H.
also with GPUs and Laptop CPUs we almost never have the "heat spreader" like we do on desktop CPUs. So, sufficial thermal paste is critical.
 
OP
chimera201

chimera201

Well-Known Member
"The latest Ryzen 3000 processors (except APU models) differ from previous Ryzen generations in that they are no longer based on a single, large chip but use a multi-chip approach with smaller chips instead. Depending on the exact model there can be one (6 and 8-core models) or two (12 and 16-core models) actual CPU-Dies (CCD) on the package. Each processor also uses an I/O-Die (IOD), which contains things like the memory controller, PCIe controller, connections to the motherboard chipset and other functions.

Because of this design change and the switch to a smaller 7nm manufacturing process, the heat distribution of the overall processor is much different from older 14nm and 12nm based single-chip Ryzen processors with a similar power draw.

Depending on the exact CPU model, its specified TDP value and possibly extended power limits (precision boost overdrive), a single CPU-die can create a heatload of up to 130W easily, whereas the I/O-die usually creates a heatload of about 10W. Due to the small size of the CPU-die, the heat density (W/mm²) of this chip is very high. For example, a 120W heatload at a chip-size of 74mm² results in a heat-density of 1.62W/mm², whereas the same heatload on an older Ryzen processor with a chip-size of 212mm² gives a heat-density of just 0.57W/mm².

This large difference in heat-density is the reason why newer Ryzen 3000 processors become much warmer at similar heatloads than their predecessors.

Furthermore, Ryzen 3000 CPUs are using the rated temperature headroom (up to 95°C) quite aggressively in order to reach higher boost clocks. As a result, it is absolutely no problem and not alarming if the processor runs into this temperature limit. The clock speed and supply voltage will be adjusted automatically by the processor itself in order to remain within AMD’s specifications and to prevent overheating.

Due to the higher heat density, higher thermal limits and more aggressive boost clock usage, it is perfectly normal that Ryzen 3000 CPUs are reaching higher temperatures than previous generation Ryzen CPUs with the same TDP rating. Higher CPU temperatures are normal for Ryzen 3000 processors and not a sign of that there is anything wrong with the CPU cooler."



I am not sure using 95°C as the throttle limit is good for the life of the CPU and mobo.
I wish reviewers tested CPUs as they do PSUs - in a 50°C hotbox and with the stock cooler. Surely there will be some performance penalty due to throttling.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
I am not sure using 95°C as the throttle limit is good for the life of the CPU and mobo.
I wish reviewers tested CPUs as they do PSUs - in a 50°C hotbox and with the stock cooler. Surely there will be some performance penalty due to throttling.
Exactly & this is especially important for a country like India where majority of the region experience 40C+ temp for months. I think it is better to get a good aftermarket cooler for those doing some serious gaming/workstation stuff on ryzen 3rd gen processors unless some review can prove that stock coolers are good enough.
 
OP
chimera201

chimera201

Well-Known Member
AMD also probably auto overclocked their Ryzen 3000 series aggressively to come close to Intel in IPC performance. There wasn't really any good thermal benchmarks at 3000 seres launch.
 

quicky008

Well-Known Member
this information regarding the heating issues prevalent in the latest ryzen 3000 series cpus is really interesting.

does this mean its better to avoid these cpus as they are likely to overheat and cause stability issues in the long run?

will using an aftermarket cooler like the hyper 212/410r etc mitigate this issue to some extent?
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
this information regarding the heating issues prevalent in the latest ryzen 3000 series cpus is really interesting.

does this mean its better to avoid these cpus as they are likely to overheat and cause stability issues in the long run?

will using an aftermarket cooler like the hyper 212/410r etc mitigate this issue to some extent?
Overheating depends on your usage scenario & local climate. For most people it is just a matter of running these processors at 60C instead of 50C so not much difference(just an example).

Hyper 410R is a 92mm cpu cooler not much better than intel stock cooler & may be even worse than amd stock coolers on ryzen 3rd gen.
 
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