Mac Book with Windows?

[nagarjun_424]

Hi guys!

I am planning to exchange my Toshiba Laptop with a Mac Book and run Windows Vista on it using Boot Camp. This will enable me to use Mac and Windows on a single laptop. I really like the features of iLife. I love the software. I love macs for its ability to handle multimedia easily. I love Windows when it comes to productivity.

So, do you think it would be a good idea to buy a mac book? Will Windows Vista run efficiently on a mac book? How much does a mac book cost in India?

Does anyone use a mac book? How is it? Please share your experiences.

Please reply. Thanks!

 

[gxsaurav]

Hi guys!

I am planning to exchange my Toshiba Laptop with a Mac Book and run Windows Vista on it using Boot Camp. This will enable me to use Mac and Windows on a single laptop. I really like the features of iLife. I love the software. I love macs for its ability to handle multimedia easily. I love Windows when it comes to productivity.

So, do you think it would be a good idea to buy a mac book? Will Windows Vista run efficiently on a mac book? How much does a mac book cost in India?

Does anyone use a mac book? How is it? Please share your experiences.

Please reply. Thanks!

Aryaush has a macbook

Right now, Macbook does not support Vista using bootcamp. It's also not sure weather they will cos they are downplaying Vista all the time. However, installing Vista should be possible cos Macbook is just a PC, you better wait for Leopard if u like cos that will have Boot camp integrated. If you buy now you might have to pay for boot camp final for using it with MacOS X 10.4 Tigar

An advice that I would like to give, stick to a PC based laptop. Not only it is cheaper then a macbook, it's also better to run Windows Vista on a PC cos Apple doesn't provide support for Windows runing on Mactel, & neither does Microsoft provides support for problem releated to hardware on a Macbook.

 

[hailgautam]

can mac os be installed on a pc?

 

[gxsaurav]

Not legally and officilly. There are methods though, checkout OSX86 project on google.


(posting via phone)

 

[aryayush]

@gx_saurav, I do not have a MacBook. It is a MacBook Pro.

@nagarjun_424, it is nice to see someone making a decision based on logic on the digit forum. A MacBook, at present, costs Rs. 60,000 + VAT, i.e. Rs. 62,400. It may vary a bit depending on your location though.
Now, my main suggestion to you is to wait till June 11, 2007. That is the day Apple will launch the new operating system, OS X "Leopard" and all future Macs will come bundled with it.
As for Vista compatibility, I have run Vista RC1 on my notebook without any problem with the beta version of Boot Camp and with Parallels Desktop for Mac. If you were unaware, Parallels lets you run Windows and Linux right within OS X, so you can have three or more operating systems running simultaneously. It is a fantastic application and the best way to run Windows on a Mac. Installing Windows on Parallels is easier than installing it on a PC, and this is not an exaggeration.

*www.tachypic.com/image/4889.jpeg​

As for why I think a MacBook is better than comparable Windows notebooks, these are the essential reasons:
1. You get to run the best operating system on the planet along with Windows. The best of both worlds.
2. The price is similar.
3. Great flaunt value.
4. Goodbye to malware.
5. Tight integration of hardware and software. Rock solid and very stable.
6. The trackpad. Yes, it is a huge point. You right click by tapping two fingers, scroll horizontally, vertically and even diagonally by dragging two fingers over the trackpad. You have to use it to believe it.
7. FireWire. It is ten times faster than USB 2.0.
8. It is very portable.
9. iSight, Apple Remote with Front Row and slot-loading optical drive.

I would advise you to visit some authorised Apple reseller near you. They will happily demo the machine for you and you can freely play around with it and get a feel of the thing. They'll also demonstrate it running Vista.

Feel free to throw any other questions you have. I was in the same dilemma as you a few months ago and I made a decision to buy a Macintosh against popular advice. I think it was the best decision I ever made in my life.

 

[Sourabh]

You should opt for a Macbook Pro and not a Macbook if you plan to seriously consider Vista. Why? Because Macbook features GMA950 with just 64MB shared Video Memory from total RAM. According to MacBook tech specs, you cant share more than 64MB video memory for GMA950. I don't understand why Apple has put that restriction. Intel 945GM chipset allows to allocate upto 224MB video memory from total RAM.

The two white Macbooks with Core 2 duo processors cost 61.3k and 71.2k final prices in Mumbai all taxes included. I am sure you will agree that the 61k Macbook doesn't have the best of firepower to run Vista well. 512MB total memory doesn't help either. There is no point in getting something if it won't run it well under basic load( I am talking about Vista). 1GB is always welcome on all laptops be it PC or Mac. It has in fact come to a stage of 'need'. Macbook Pro with the 2.16Ghz Core 2 Duo and X1600 Graphics should cost you 106k. MBP is really the thing you should consider if you need the best of both worlds. This may not sound nice, but the real multimedia machine is MBP and not Macbook.

@aryayush: I recollect you posted that image in some other thread too. I don't know which thread it was. I have nothing against it but it is a very misleading one for the uninformed. Most of the core things it mentions are no where to be found on the basic macbook which costs 61k. I say its misleading because the basic macbook has 512MB RAM, 60GB HDD, a combo drive. So, well for me that doesn't sound all that good when I look at that pic again. RAM, HDD and DVD-writer are everything in a laptop which makes the difference between two laptops currently.

Macbooks are a nice option for beginners and to check out the best of both worlds for the first time. But when you know what OSX and its platform has on offer and run Vista too, get MBP. Also, Other PC based laptops too offer similar trackpads with horizontal and vertical scroling, double tapping on PC laptops = double click. Macbook has firewire 400 and not 800. USB 2.0 and Firewire 400 performance are similar as the bandwidth provided is identical - 50MB/s for Firewire 400 and 60MB/s theoretical for USB 2.0. Firewire 800 is the real deal to change your decision provided you need it for something.

 

[aryayush]

You can always extend the memory to 2 GB if you wish to.

Apart from that, I agree with all your points apart from the one about the trackpad. Normal trackpads have two demarcated areas for horizontal and vertical scrolling and there is no way to right-click without a physical button. If you ever use an Apple trackpad, you'll realise the sheer convenience. I am not getting myself a mouse even though I need it for Photoshop, because I am in love with the trackpad.

 

[Sourabh]

Thats a new one for me. I don't remember the last time I used the trackpad. Without mouse for so long is really a big thing for a laptop user.

 

[aryayush]

Well, yeah - as I said "You have to use it to believe it."

When I had gone to the reseller, he was going on and on about the trackpad and I was standing there thinking, "C'mon man, get over it. Who uses the trackpad anyway!" In fact, I has intended to purchase the Mighty Mouse with the laptop (as I was getting it at a steep discount) but the salesman discouraged me from doing so. Six months later, I know he did the right thing.

 

[gxsaurav]

Parallels lets you run Windows and Linux right within OS X, so you can have three or more operating systems running simultaneously. It is a fantastic application and the best way to run Windows on a Mac

How come runing an OS in Virtual Machine enviroment gives same performance as native installation Gr8 logic..Even the VT bit in Core 2 duo is not that powerful. besides...plz tell me one thing if possible a screenshot weather Vista was runing with Aero in Parallels? As far as I know, Paralles does not support GPU virtualisation right now

The price is similar

This needs to be checked

FireWire. It is ten times faster than USB 2.0.

Nope, same speed of 60 MBps

You can always extend the memory to 2 GB if you wish to.

This needs to be checked before you buy a MBP, Apple RAM is very costly compared to normal RAM for PC. It's adviced not to buy memory Upgrades from Apple due to high cost

@ nagarjun_424

Since your primary reason to buy a MBP is to run Windows Vista on it, along with MacOS X, don't forget what i informed before. It's better to use Windows Vista on a PC cos Apple doesn't provide support for Windows runing on Mactel, & neither does Microsoft provides support for problem releated to hardware on a Macbook.

If you indeed want to buy a MBP, then wait till leopard is released, atleast then you will not have to pay for bootcamp

 

[nagarjun_424]

Wow! I had no clue that there was so much to know before I pick up one! Well, 3 of my classmates have a macbook that is also running windows xp. But when I asked them for suggestions, they did not know anything as they are not big computer buffs like you all. I am a computer buff, but not when it comes to mac. I want to move out (well not move out, but try other things too) from windows and try other OSs too.

I can't relly afford a macbook pro. Not even the higher version of macbook. 61k should be fine.

But, aryayush, just a few questions. I guess you will know the answers as, you too made a switch like I am planning to.

Here are a list of applications I use most on my XP Pro laptop:
Frontpage, Limewire Pro, Blue J (for JAVA Programming), hell loads of Photoshop CS2, lots of MS Office and a few other software for coverting videos etc etc.

I guess all these applications will not work with Vista for now? So, I guess I should stick with XP until I know Vista will support all these software.

Since I use photoshop a lot, it involves loads of right clicking. How do I right click on a macbook when I am using XP without an additional mouse? Since I do not play games or will not run Vista instantly, do u think an upgrade to 1gb ram is essential? Howmuch cud it be?

Howmuch does Parallels Desktop or Boot Camp cost? What if boot camp expires? How will I use my Windows?

Sorry for so many questions. But, I guess you are the only one who would know as you have experienced the change! Please help me out!

 

[aryayush]

@gx_saurav

Yes, virtualisation of GPU is not possible in the stable released versions of virtualisation software and therefore, Aero is not supported ATM. I never said it was either.
However, very early previews of VMWare's Fusion have shown 3D gaming on a virtual machine and it is coming soon. Parallels will jump in the fray too. The future is very rosy for virtualisation. PC owners, however, will be left behind because both Parallels and VMWare have refused to bring virtualisation solutions for running Mac OS X within Windows.

As for the price, I've posted the price in Kolkata and Sourabh has posted the one in Bangalore. The price is the same as Dell XPS M1210.

I was talking about FireWire 800, which is a lot faster than USB 2.0. However, I didn't realise that the MacBooks only have FireWire 400.

You can use RAM from any other company. I am using Transcend.

As for support, Apple will provide support for the hardware and Microsoft will provide (whatever) support (it can) for the operating system (if you use the legit version). And the reseller you buy your Mac from will help you out with both the hardware and software, no matter what.

 

[nagarjun_424]

Aryayush, please answer the questions from my last post! It will really help me pick a good laptop! I really need your help bro! Sourabh, thanks for the Bangalore price as, I am from Bangalore. I was actually thinking of going up to Forum and aksing for a demo and price.

Aryayush, please help? Answer my last post! Those are my major doubts.

 

[aryayush]

Wow! I had no clue that there was so much to know before I pick up one! Well, 3 of my classmates have a macbook that is also running windows xp. But when I asked them for suggestions, they did not know anything as they are not big computer buffs like you all. I am a computer buff, but not when it comes to mac. I want to move out (well not move out, but try other things too) from windows and try other OSs too.

I had the exact same mentality before I moved. I had used Windows for many years and had given some distros of Linux a try too. I wanted something new. At least you know a few people around who have Macs. I am still only the second person in my city to own a Mac. But that is no problem, because I've had no trouble with it so far. No hangs, crashes, viruses - any sort of problem.

Here are a list of applications I use most on my XP Pro laptop:
Frontpage, Limewire Pro, Blue J (for JAVA Programming), hell loads of Photoshop CS2, lots of MS Office and a few other software for coverting videos etc etc.

You do not even need Windows XP for these and most other software. Here are the Mac equivalents of these software:
1. FrontPage - iWeb (for novice users), Nvu (advanced users) and DreamWeaver (Pro users).
2. LimeWire Pro - LimeWire Pro, Cabos, Acquisition, etc.
3. Blue J - Since I am not interested in this, I do not know of any software for this purpose. On switching to the Mac, however, you might be more interested in Cocoa and Dashboard programming. You can use XCode and Dashcode for that.
4. Photoshop CS2 - Adobe Photoshop CS2 and CS3 beta.
5. MS Office - MS Office 2004. The 2007 version is coming soon and it is better than the Windows counterpart.
6. Converting videos - Lots and lots of applications, free and paid.

There is another application for OS X called Crossover that lets you run Windows software directly on a Mac. I ran Opera for Windows using it and it worked flawlessly. Tally did not work however.

Since I use photoshop a lot, it involves loads of right clicking. How do I right click on a macbook when I am using XP without an additional mouse?

You put two fingers on the trackpad and click the mouse button. You'll get used to it in a while.

Since I do not play games or will not run Vista instantly, do u think an upgrade to 1gb ram is essential? Howmuch cud it be?

If you plan to run virtual machines, it essential to have even more than one gigabyte of memory because you'll be running two or more operating systems at a time. If you use Boot Camp, however, 512 MB should be fine. But because you use Photoshop a lot, I would highly recommend upgrading the memory to one gigabyte. It should set you back by about two thousand bucks. I am not too sure though.

Howmuch does Parallels Desktop or Boot Camp cost? What if boot camp expires? How will I use my Windows?

Parallels Desktop for Mac costs $79.99.
Boot Camp is free and will never expire. Furthermore, it will be bundled with Leopard.

Sorry for so many questions. But, I guess you are the only one who would know as you have experienced the change! Please help me out!

Please do not be hesitant! If you have any more questions, feel free to throw them at me. I would love to help you out.

 

[Sourabh]

Guys, I am from Mumbai formerly Bombay. Got no clue about the prices in Bangalore. Should be similar, give or take 2-3k.

I would suggest to go for the better MacBook, it makes your deal really good. I say this because in that extra 10k you get a lot of things which matter a lot in the real world and make the difference in the long run. Firstly the biggest difference, the core 2 duo processor on the higher priced macbook has 4MB cache (the real core 2 duo)as opposed to 2MB in the other, thats a difference in computing power. The 80GB hard drive, extra 512MB and the dvd writer? Sounds really good and make more sense!

After purchase boost up of 512MB DDR2 667MHz of Memory will in itself cost you 3.5k at least if all goes well and the new RAM is compatible with the one in your MacBook. Ask aryayush about his fling with Transcend memory on the MacBook Pro.

 

[aryayush]

No compatibility problems to date.

 

[nagarjun_424]

Guys, I dont know how to thank u all! Aryayush, thanks for the amazing advice man! Really helped me... I only hope I can convice my father for 10k more so that I can get the better macbook!

If I have anything else, I will ask you before I make a decision! Thanks man!

 

[gxsaurav]

Yes, virtualisation of GPU is not possible in the stable released versions of virtualisation software and therefore, Aero is not supported ATM. I never said it was either.
However, very early previews of VMWare's Fusion have shown 3D gaming on a virtual machine and it is coming soon. Parallels will jump in the fray too. The future is very rosy for virtualisation. PC owners, however, will be left behind because both Parallels and VMWare have refused to bring virtualisation solutions for running Mac OS X within Windows.

I know about fusion, & it is not capable of emulating DX10 as said in the drafts now, check their documentation. So, well...weather it can virtualize DX10 is not sure right now, so making a decision of buying a Macbook based on VMWare virtualisation in the future is not justified. Go for features which are available right now, & right now Parallels & VMWare can't run vista with aero, whats the point of MBP then? cos non Aero Vista will run fine on macbook too

As for support, Apple will provide support for the hardware and Microsoft will provide (whatever) support (it can) for the operating system (if you use the legit version).

Nope, this is where i m going to do job now boy, MS doesn't support hardware problems (driver etc) on macbook

@ nagarjun

Do you study JAVA in college? if thats the case then make sure u get an equivalent tool for MacOS. Also get atleast 1 GB RAM if u plan to use vista natively or 2 GB if u plan to virtualize it. However, like i said above..virtualising an OS is not recomended right now. You will have to pay $79 for Parallels, while you can pay $30 for bootcamp which is a better option

by the way, i wonder why you want to replace your existing Toshiba laptop if u intend to use Windows XP on Macbook too, whats the point.

You put two fingers on the trackpad and click the mouse button. You'll get used to it in a while.

Arya, plz state weather this is supported in Windows XP/Vista too or not?

 

[aryayush]

Apple provides the drivers with Boot Camp and you do not need to run to Microsoft. If there is any hardware issue while running Windows, the reseller who he buys the machine from will provide support for it. I am speaking from experience here.

For Java development, you can use BuoyBuilder. There must be other applications too, but I know of only this one. A topic on any Apple-centric forum is all you need to know more of these.

Windows XP runs absolutely fine on Parallels as long as you do not plan to game on it. If you want to do gaming, you can always restart the machine and log into Windows. Aero in Windows Vista is at present not supported with either Parallels or VMWare. But Vista runs just fine sans the Aero interface. One great thing is that you can install Windows XP via Boot Camp and then use Parallels to log into the same XP installation while running OS X simultaneously. It is amazing.

while you can pay $30 for bootcamp which is a better option

Boot Camp is free to boot. You can download it from here right now if you wish to. And it is not the better option unless gaming is a primary requirement. And since you are buying a low-end laptop and have mentioned nothing about wanting to game a lot on it, Parallels is your best bet. In fact, Parallels combined with Boot Camp (as I explained above) is the best win-win solution.

by the way, i wonder why you want to replace your existing Toshiba laptop if u intend to use Windows XP on Macbook too, whats the point.

Because he wants to try out another operating system and he's got common sense enough to see that it is not heavier on the pocket.

Arya, plz state weather this is supported in Windows XP/Vista too or not?

It IS for Windows XP and Vista. On Mac OS X, you do not even need to press the button. You simply tap on the trackpad with both fingers to invoke the secondary click. While using Parallels, you can do the same thing. But in Boot Camp, you have to place both fingers on the trackpad and click the mouse button.

nagarjun_424, my first advice still stands true. Please wait for Leopard's release. If you purchase a machine at that time, you'll get Apple's latest operating system, the notebook will fully supports Windows Vista (it already supports it well), Parallels will be tightly integrated with Leopard and will most probably have updated their software to allow 3D hardware acceleration on a virtual machine. The future is only going to be better.

And you need not really worry about running Windows at all. I am sure once you've used Mac OS X for a week or so, you wouldn't want to go back.

 

[gxsaurav]

Since your hardware is already selected, no use giving u better options. Here are a few things

1) Macbook with 64 MB GMA 950 will not run Vista Aero

2) You will not get driver support for your hardware of macbook from Apple, if there isn't any right now, you will have to wait for them to make it

3) Runing a virtual machine requirs a lot of RAM, make sure u get atleast 2 GB.