Indians and privacy

[bssunilreddy]

Article 370 should be removed but after winning the hearts of the population, not after putting them on lockdown based on deceit and lies. It's also ironic that the same government is reassuring the states of the sanctity of Article 371 which has largely the same provisions.

I think it was unanimously agreed upon before taking a decision in the parliament.
Some states want special status due to their backwardness but centre is taking too much time in this regard.

 

[Desmond]

Majority of China is Han & they are used to living under a "central emperor rule" much longer than Indians with their numerous communities based on caste,region,religion etc under equally numerous rulers(practically speaking India never lived under a central emperor rule after Ashoka's rule in 230BC,even mughals & british rule cannot be compared to his rule).

I don't think this example applies in the modern day. China has had a communist government that was permissive in the beginning of Mao Zedong's chairmanship. It was after the Tienanmen square incident that the Chinese govt. started suppressing down on their own citizens. I don't think their history has anything to do with their subservient attitude to their government.

That's the thing, India has been largely divided since time immemorial, however none of that excuses the post-independence misgovernance that has plagued this country for decades.

Agreed, even though that we are a fully united republic, we still divide ourselves based on events and traditions from hundreds of years ago. First step to remedy this I think is to first see each other as human beings.

Caste System should be abolished. But this cannot be done without awareness among the massess that Caste does not bring any good to them or to the nation at large.
What is the use of all these advancements in education system if we cannot think that " All men are created equal"

Caste as an identity is okay, I mean you can't really escape your caste, so to speak, owing to your bloodline. Using your caste as an excuse to gain an advantage over other citizens is a different matter altogether.

 

[whitestar_999]

I don't think this example applies in the modern day. China has had a communist government that was permissive in the beginning of Mao Zedong's chairmanship. It was after the Tienanmen square incident that the Chinese govt. started suppressing down on their own citizens. I don't think their history has anything to do with their subservient attitude to their government.

No.Mao was a communist no doubt but his functioning style was not much different from an emperor. Great Leap Forward - Wikipedia
This one is a must read,trust me Four Pests Campaign - Wikipedia

Chinese govt was never permissive,it just didn't start taking action until Tienanmem square probably because by that time it had seen the signs of collapsing USSR & was in a much better economic/military/diplomatic position compared to mao's rule.

Caste as an identity is okay, I mean you can't really escape your caste, so to speak, owing to your bloodline. Using your caste as an excuse to gain an advantage over other citizens is a different matter altogether.

That is a dangerous slippery road.The moment you start using words like "caste identity","bloodlines" is the moment when when you already draw a line between yourself & others based on something you just got by luck(aka born in the right family). If you work to become a billionaire & then comment something negative about not so rich people then it's ok(even if not considerate) but not if you became a billionaire by inheriting family wealth.

 

[meetdilip]

Caste is govt approved. Works at schools, colleges, govt offices etc. You will get benefits for being from certain castes and get penalised for being from some other.

 

[whitestar_999]

Caste is govt approved. Works at schools, colleges, govt offices etc. You will get benefits for being from certain castes and get penalised for being from some other.

It is society approved,any govt just use it to justify their actions. Caste system is deeply entrenched in Indian society,it is capable of distorting even basic human emotions & the reason behind such incidents:
Tamil Nadu girl burnt alive by mother to stop her marrying dalit | Trichy News - Times of India

 

[meetdilip]

Govt says some guys are special some are not. It happens everywhere where govt is involved.

Govt. sets you aside if you are not from a particular caste.

 

[Desmond]

This one is a must read,trust me Four Pests Campaign - Wikipedia

Yeah, I know about that campaign where he started eliminating Sparrows and other pests.
My point is that even if the people want a democratic government, they were powerless to do anything. Not because they have an affinity with for autocracy.

That is a dangerous slippery road.

I didn't mean it as an official identity. I mean that because you were born in a certain caste, and someone asks you what is your caste, you can only answer with the caste you were born under. My point is that you can call yourself whatever you want, but it should not be used as an excuse to gain an advantage over or harming someone of another caste. Getting rid of the caste system is an ideal scenario but practically not possible without radical reforms right now. I think inter-caste marriages need to be de-taboo-ified first.

It is society approved

Agreed.

 

[whitestar_999]

Govt says some guys are special some are not. It happens everywhere where govt is involved.

Govt. sets you aside if you are not from a particular caste.

Govt says it because society demands it.

Society in many places also sets you aside if you are not from a particular caste.

 

[whitestar_999]

I didn't mean it as an official identity. I mean that because you were born in a certain caste, and someone asks you what is your caste, you can only answer with the caste you were born under.

This is what the problem is.Someone should not ask your caste in the first place & neither one should reply about the same. I may sound harsh but that's what the reality also is. As long as one is interested in knowing the caste of another,there will always be evils of caste system present in the society.

Btw what about those orphans/adopted who don't even know the identity of their real parents let alone know the "caste they were born under".

 

[Extreme Gamer]

You see, no group actively supports the withdrawal of privileges they have enjoyed. Japan had the Satsuma Rebellion, Europe had several of its own - the French one being the most famous. Similarly in India if you remove or even hint at removing reservation, the opposition will pounce on it and rile up the affected groups. It's even worse here in that because of the sheer diversity and existing affirmative action programs other communities too want special treatment. Politicians make careers out of these demands.

 

[whitestar_999]

You see, no group actively supports the withdrawal of privileges they have enjoyed. Japan had the Satsuma Rebellion, Europe had several of its own - the French one being the most famous. Similarly in India if you remove or even hint at removing reservation, the opposition will pounce on it and rile up the affected groups. It's even worse here in that because of the sheer diversity and existing affirmative action programs other communities too want special treatment. Politicians make careers out of these demands.

Indian caste system is unique in the world,in some ways it is even worse than discrimination against blacks & similar situations. Reservation was originally meant for only SC/ST communities & it was supposed to be for 10 years initially but it keeps getting extended & not without reasons as you can see the news link(mother burning her daughter & then trying to commit suicide) above which is just the tip of the iceberg. It is the Mandal commission by V P Singh govt & their 27% OBC reservation which sparked this reservation cauldron. All these jats,patiyadars etc movements demanding reservation is for this OBC category only(you can rest assured that no influential/decently developed community will demand itself to be incl in SC/ST category).

 

[Extreme Gamer]

Exactly. OBC is a bane upon society. It eats away into opportunities for the tribals and dalits who face discrimination. Also add religious reservation to the mix and damn.

 

[meetdilip]

Even if we don't ask caste to each other, I never did to anyone in my life, govt has been asking it in every application. And giving preference to some people based on it. Society wants to stop corruption, is govt doing it as efficiently as giving goodies to people based on in which family they are born ?

 

[whitestar_999]

Even if we don't ask caste to each other, I never did to anyone in my life, govt has been asking it in every application. And giving preference to some people based on it. Society wants to stop corruption, is govt doing it as efficiently as giving goodies to people based on in which family they are born ?

Just because you don't ask doesn't mean others too don't. Just watch Article 15 movie to get a rough idea. You seems to be confusing reservation to SC/ST(given by authors of Indian constitution) with reservation to OBC(given by V P Singh govt in 1980). What you call "goodies" may be true for OBC but for SC/ST it may be a difference of life & death.

 

[meetdilip]

It is not just for caste. In most states, they give on the basis of religion too. If person A is from a particular religion, he gets a lot of goodies like some castes. If person B has more marks/higher rank in a selection exam, he will be thrown out in favour of person A just because he was born into another religion. If you want an example, I know 2 people, one with rank 3k and another with 16k getting an entry for the same post in a national level exam. This is official and legal by the constitution and govt of India. No corruption, no donation, no capitation fee, no chacha-bathija relationship. Just based on religion.

 

[whitestar_999]

It is not just for caste. In most states, they give on the basis of religion too. If person A is from a particular religion, he gets a lot of goodies like some castes. If person B has more marks/higher rank in a selection exam, he will be thrown out in favour of person A just because he was born into another religion. If you want an example, I know 2 people, one with rank 3k and another with 16k getting an entry for the same post in a national level exam. This is official and legal by the constitution and govt of India. No corruption, no donation, no capitation fee, no chacha-bathija relationship. Just based on religion.

There is no religion based reservation in India,some states' govt tried but the Supreme Court ruled against it.
Reservation on basis of religion

Which exam is this,whether it was conducted by state(which state) or central govt,what post? You must be missing some details/clarification regarding this.

 

[meetdilip]

I don't want to argue on this. I was telling the truth. You can believe or skip it. Your choice.

 

[whitestar_999]

I don't want to argue on this. I was telling the truth. You can believe or skip it. Your choice.

?? I prepared for some govt exams & read Indian polity & Constitution in detail. I am telling you there is no religion based reservation in constitution though some state govt have tried to implement this in an indirect manner by implementing it within the OBC quota & such decisions are always challenged in Supreme Court.
Reservation in India - Wikipedia

There is no reservation granted on the basis of religion in the Central educational institutions at the national level, although reservation has been extended to religious minorities in some states. The Tamil Nadu government has allotted 3.5% of seats each to Muslims and Christians, thereby altering the OBC reservation to 23% from 30% (since it excludes persons belonging to Other Backward Castes who are either Muslims or Christians).[29]

The Government of Andhra Pradesh introduced a law enabling 4 percent reservations for Muslims in 2004. This law was upheld by the Supreme Court in an interim order in 2010 but it constituted a Constitution bench to look further into the issue.[30][31] The referral was to examine the constitutional validity of quotas based on religion.[32] Kerala Public Service Commission has a quota of 6% for Muslims. Religious minority (Muslim or Christian) educational institutes also have 50% reservation for Muslim or Christian religions. The Central government has listed a number of Muslim communities as backward Muslims, making them eligible for reservation.

 

[Desmond]

Someone should not ask your caste in the first place & neither one should reply about the same.

The thing I said about "cannot escape your caste" was because even if no one asks your caste, they can determine your caste from even your surname. So to truly escape your caste, you will have to change your surname to something else. Until then you will always be shackled to it.

 

[whitestar_999]

The thing I said about "cannot escape your caste" was because even if no one asks your caste, they can determine your caste from even your surname. So to truly escape your caste, you will have to change your surname to something else. Until then you will always be shackled to it.

And that is exactly what many SC/ST people do(at least in North India),using common surnames like kumar etc. As long as this caste system exists,India can forget about ever becoming a "superpower" because no country with such hollow society can ever rise to great heights.