Corsair VS450

[Nerevarine]

Even Antec VP450p also uses CapXon capacitors, the only low end PSU that doesnt use CapXon capacitors is Seasonic ones and the older VX series of Corsair an d maybe Gigabyte PSUs not sure
*wccftech.com/review/antec-vp450p-psu-review-power-on-a-budget/

The secondary stage provides power to the PC. The outputs of the transformers are rectified and filtered before being passed on. For the all important +12V +5 and +3.3V rails Schottky rectifiers are used. The capacitors on the secondary side are from various manufacturers but primarily Capxon.

and another source
*www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Antec-VP450-Power-Supply-Review/1487/5

IMO, maintain PSU properly by proper grounding etc.. That is a very important thing that people must understand.. Im pretty positive OP will have no issues with VS450 running that GPU.. Even if he does, Corsair RMA is very good
Another cheaper option is VP350p if OP doesnt want to upgrade his stuff, but know this that VP350p and VP450p are from 2 different OEMs, read review before buying

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Another very good PSU if you can find it is Gigabyte PoweRock 400W..
It was selling on ebay a few months back for the same price as VS450.. The PSU OEM is CWT and it has got good reviews

 

[bssunilreddy]

Corsair VS450 is completely fine as I myself use VS550 and its awesome.

 

[rijinpk1]

Corsair VS450 is completely fine as I myself use VS550 and its awesome.

what awesomeness do you see there?

 

[harshilsharma63]

^ rofl, awesome man...

 

[gta5]

Hello bumping this thread again .. owners of VS450 [MENTION=132417]hitesh[/MENTION] [MENTION=110244]Nerevarine[/MENTION] [MENTION=57860]thetechfreak[/MENTION]

please reply regarding this VS450 compatibility with UPS i came across 2-3 reviews on amazon about the active PFC being not compatible with non pure sinewave ups ( i have apc 600va ) and resulting in pc restart when switching to battery mode during fluctuation, power cut etc.. some reported the same here as well.. 1 with vs 550

Amazon.in: Nilesh's review of

*forum.digit.in/power-supply-cabinets-mods/192326-ups-psu-apfc.html

Is this compatible with non pure sinewave ups ? i am confused ? or has there been a change in model ?

hoping for a reply
Thanks

 

[chimera201]

Hello bumping this thread again .. owners of VS450 @hitesh @Nerevarine @thetechfreak

please reply regarding this VS450 compatibility with UPS i came across 2-3 reviews on amazon about the active PFC being not compatible with non pure sinewave ups ( i have apc 600va ) and resulting in pc restart when switching to battery mode during fluctuation, power cut etc.. some reported the same here as well.. 1 with vs 550

Amazon.in: Nilesh's review of

*forum.digit.in/power-supply-cabinets-mods/192326-ups-psu-apfc.html

Is this compatible with non pure sinewave ups ? i am confused ? or has there been a change in model ?

hoping for a reply
Thanks

I think there is a wrong notion about sine-wave thing. If it is actually incompatible with a non-sinewave UPS then PSU would either not start at all or be very unstable i.e. it would not remain on as long as there is power after the restart. If the PSU restarts and continues to work normally then the problem is that the hold-up time of the PSU is very low.

Hold-up time is a very important PSU characteristic and represents the amount of time, usually measured in milliseconds, a PSU can maintain output regulations as defined by the ATX spec without input power. In other words, it is the amount of time the system can continue to run without shutting down or rebooting during a power interruption. The ATX specification sets the minimum hold-up time to 17 ms with the maximum continuous output load.

According to the ATX specification, PWR_OK is a "power good" signal. This signal should be asserted as high on the 5V rail by the power supply to indicate that the +12V, 5V, and 3.3V outputs are within the regulation thresholds and that sufficient mains energy is stored by the APFC converter to guarantee a system's continuous operation for at least 17 ms. Conversely, PWR_OK should be de-asserted to a low state, 0V, when any of the +12V, 5V, or 3.3V output voltages fall below the under-voltage threshold or when mains power has been removed for long enough to guarantee that a power supply isn't operating anymore. The AC loss to PWR_OK minimum hold-up time is set to 16 ms, which is less than the hold-up time described above, but the ATX specification also sets a PWR_OK inactive-to-DC loss delay that should be higher than 1 ms. This means that the AC loss to PWR_OK hold-up time should be lower than the PSU's overall hold-up time to ensure that the power supply doesn't send a power good signal once any of the +12V, 5V and 3.3V rails are out of spec

*www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Corsair/RM650i/6.html

Hold up time of Corsair VS450 is less than 10ms which is very low.
*www.corsair.com/en-in/vs-seriestm-vs450-450-watt-power-supply
Download PSU Specification Table from downloads section.

 

[ankitj1611]

I am using rx 460 4gb gddr5 with i3 6100 with vs450 .....is it ok? Does my config draws a lot power?

 

[Nerevarine]

I am using rx 460 4gb gddr5 with i3 6100 with vs450 .....is it ok? Does my config draws a lot power?

It does not, you are totally fine, go for a better PSU, if you need an upgrade

 

[sumit05]

How is Corsair CX430 guys.

 

[gta5]

I think there is a wrong notion about sine-wave thing. If it is actually incompatible with a non-sinewave UPS then PSU would either not start at all or be very unstable i.e. it would not remain on as long as there is power after the restart. If the PSU restarts and continues to work normally then the problem is that the hold-up time of the PSU is very low.

Hold up time of Corsair VS450 is less than 10ms which is very low
VS Series™ VS450 — 450 Watt Power Supply
Download PSU Specification Table from downloads section.

Thank you very much for replying.. hmm .. but the whole cx series also has a hold up time of 10ms but cx 430 runs fine with all types of UPS ? difference of better caps ?

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I am using rx 460 4gb gddr5 with i3 6100 with vs450 .....is it ok? Does my config draws a lot power?

your pc won't draw more than 200-230w at full load.. Does your psu works fine with ups ?

 

[chimera201]

Thank you very much for replying.. hmm .. but the whole cx series also has a hold up time of 10ms but cx 430 runs fine with all types of UPS ? difference of better caps ?

Well CX do have better hold-up caps than VS series so they will last longer. And those values are from Corsair. The real values might be different. That is why I said "less than" 10ms. Unfortunately there aren't any reviews of current models of CX and VS series for credible source. Also need to see the other side, if the response time of the UPS is good enough it won't be a problem.

- - - Updated - - -

How is Corsair CX430 guys.

Depends on your system specs.




Also I noticed that Corsair discontinued the older VS series models: VS350, VS450, VS550, VS650. Replaced with VS400, VS500, VS600. There must have been a lot of RMAs for the older models to get discontinued so fast

 

[ankitj1611]

Thank you very much for replying.. hmm .. but the whole cx series also has a hold up time of 10ms but cx 430 runs fine with all types of UPS ? difference of better caps ?

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your pc won't draw more than 200-230w at full load.. Does your psu works fine with ups ?

Oh only 200-230w???thanks... So its ok.between the gfx is sapphire oc edition 4gb 6pin connector ...

I am using a inverter and no ups.the inverter is sinewave lyminous annd no problem occurs when their is power cut.inverter picks the load of my desktop immediately

This desktop i assembled just 2 months back

 

[gta5]

Well CX do have better hold-up caps than VS series so they will last longer. And those values are from Corsair. The real values might be different. That is why I said "less than" 10ms. Unfortunately there aren't any reviews of current models of CX and VS series for credible source. Also need to see the other side, if the response time of the UPS is good enough it won't be a problem.

Once again thanks for the reply

The topic intrigued and is a necessity for me so i have been searching about it and came across this info, hopefully it will benefit other readers.. (Please correct me wherever there is an error , this is just collection of info from other sources .. i am not an engineer/knowledgeable person )

Corsair VS 450 employs a very low capacitance "180uf" from aishi..
Cx 430v2 uses Samxon "180uf" .. in budget builds we are only going to find these cheap caps but 180uf is a very low value for cheap caps.. higher the uf value , higher is the hold up time... aishi /samxon /capxon are ok if one is not stressing the machine but they have to be of higher uf value .. "230uf+" for good hold up times for a 400-450watt psu ..

here is the hold up time of Corsair cx 430v2 with samxon.. under 10ms

Efficiency and Hold-Up Time | bit-tech.ne

the new Cx 430 v3 known as cx430 uses a "Panasonic" "180uf" cap one of the best.. and maybe this is why they increased the price

hold up time is around 31 msec which is great.. and this explains why there have been no problems reported with this psu

Corsair Builder Series CX430 im Test: 80Plus Bronze für 40 Euro (Seite 8) - ComputerBas

so either get a good manufacturer cap or a cheap cap with higher uf value

hold up time of VS 450 must be even lower than the cx430v2 and that explains why this isn't good for some people

Now Coming to UPS part.. UPS switch time increases a lot during voltage fluctuations as compared to normal total power off/blackout ( under 8 sec for apc) .. so 1 may not experience pc reboot during a power cut but may see a lot of reboots during fluctuations , so hold up time becomes even more important here .. the only solution is to get a PSU with a higher hold up time ..

just going by brand and recommending higher watt psu is not enough an assurance of better hold up times..

For eg - Antec Vp450p is using a "270uf" capacitor and have excellent hold up times , no restart problems reported from users as well..

But it's big brother Antec VP550p is also using the same "270uf" capacitor .. which is very low for a 550 watt psu and that is reflected in hold up time of less than 10ms in the above bit tech test.. and you can find people experiencing reboots on google with ups when gaming with this psu...

Also I noticed that Corsair discontinued the older VS series models: VS350, VS450, VS550, VS650. Replaced with VS400, VS500, VS600. There must have been a lot of RMAs for the older models to get discontinued so fast

You are bang on , Vs450 must have experienced problems from lot of people regarding pc restarting and now they have changed the Primary cap to Teapo rated at "270uf" .. now there will be great hold up times and also teapo is considered a tier ever above capxon/samsxon/aishi..

Đánh giá nguồn máy tính Corsair VS400: Chỉ 400W nhưng "cân" 2 chiếc RX480

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There is no consensus regarding the next part so not sure but this is important info so posting here in hopes somebody more knowledable will come here and explain it..


1) Modified Sinewave being imcopatible for APFC is a cause of concern only to us with 240v as input and it is safe for people in Usa with 120v input.. so most likely we'll never get to hear about these problems on web because it is safe for them and they hardly use UPS

2) Most caps used by psu are rated at 400v .. even seasonic 520 has a 400v rated cap.. when there is a switch over to simulated sinewave the "inrush" voltage output by UPS ( this is for apc ) is in dangerous area of 400v for Active PFC and during this "inrush period " active pfc psu draws it's "full watt" this is what causes the humming sound/incompatibility issues and ups going into overload mode.. never ever use it for extended periods.. If the PSU unit does not have OVP or the protection fails .. this would result in a big bang

square output UPS vs. bulk capacitor voltage - Badcaps Forums
Active PFC Power Supply and NON true sine wave UPS. - jonnyGURU Forums
*forum.digit.in/hardware-q/84667-corsair-psu-query.html

---------------------------

The review posted by [MENTION=92220]rajan1311[/MENTION] regarding Antec Bp450ps shows that this non active PFC PSU uses 2 Capxon caps rated at 680uf at 250 v each .. so total 1360 uf and 500v .. this is way way way higher than any of the psu far above it's price range , i am wondering with this much capacitance it won't even require a UPS at all ? lol .. this looks like an excellent budget psu.. i hope ripples on this psu are not too bad..

*forum.digit.in/reviews/189869-antec-bp450ps-450w-power-supply-review.html

Learned members thoughts/comments ?

And i would request Moderators / PSU experts here to start a new thread on this topic and make it sticky.. there are a lot of threads on this problem and having a main thread for listing compatibility between UPS and PSU of different models based on members feedback would be really helpful for everybody.

I think Hold up time/compatibility with ups is far more important for indians than 5-10 % better efficiency.. especially for areas where there are bad power problems

 

[chimera201]

Yeah it would be great if some professional actually existed in India that would explain to us how all these stuff works and test them in 230V. Sadly all the professional reviewers are from USA testing on 115V grid. And the few European reviewers write articles in their native language and are not that very professional

Corsair VS 450 employs a very low capacitance "180uf" from aishi..
Cx 430v2 uses Samxon "180uf" .. in budget builds we are only going to find these cheap caps but 180uf is a very low value for cheap caps.. higher the uf value , higher is the hold up time... aishi /samxon /capxon are ok if one is not stressing the machine but they have to be of higher uf value .. "230uf+" for good hold up times for a 400-450watt psu ..

I may be wrong but I don't think uF value directly translates to Hold-up time. It is a factor but there could be something else in the circuit too.

hold up time is around 31 msec which is great.. and this explains why there have been no problems reported with this psu

Corsair Builder Series CX430 im Test: 80Plus Bronze für 40 Euro (Seite 8) - ComputerBas

I have a hard time believing that it's 31ms. It can't be. It should be around 10ms according to Corsair themselves.

Now Coming to UPS part.. UPS switch time increases a lot during voltage fluctuations as compared to normal total power off/blackout ( under 8 sec for apc) .. so 1 may not experience pc reboot during a power cut but may see a lot of reboots during fluctuations , so hold up time becomes even more important here .. the only solution is to get a PSU with a higher hold up time ..

If there are voltage fluctuations just use a decent voltage regulator even if the UPS manual says not to connect anything else between it and the wall socket.
The ideal setup would be:
Wall socket --> decent voltage regulator --> APC SmartUPS --> Tier 1-3 quality PSU

If you live in a city where the voltages are stable and power cuts are rare then its better not to use a UPS at all. The occasional power cut isn't going to damage the PC (with a good PSU) .


Even jonnyGURU doesn't know much about UPSes. jonnyGURU works for Corsair now

 

[The Sorcerer]

Power Supplies and many components would be coming under BIS certification. I am not sure if this would keep away substandard power supplies from India, but having a standard is something to look forward to.

 

[gta5]

Yeah it would be great if some professional actually existed in India that would explain to us how all these stuff works and test them in 230V. Sadly all the professional reviewers are from USA testing on 115V grid. And the few European reviewers write articles in their native language and are not that very professional

yeah i guess the tools that PSU require to properly test them cost a lot , it also doesn't help that people don't pay attention to PSU in india .. Mostly don't look beyond Watts on a PSU even many gamers..

I may be wrong but I don't think uF value directly translates to Hold-up time. It is a factor but there could be something else in the circuit too.

From what i have read and analysed uf value is the major contributor of hold up value.. i was able to find a few anomalies but by and large it is the uf values that determines Hold up times.. i think secondary caps play a smaller role here but they do influence the results though not to a large extent

Tomshardware even names the big primary cap as a "hold up cap" where it lists specs

Corsair CX650M PSU Interior Component Analysi

higher the capacitance value , higher the ability of capacitor to store power and higher the amount of stored power, longer will be the hold up times.. more stored fuel in tank , more mileage

This post is from member "Jon" taken from here

UPS fast Switching than inverter

All PC SMPS supplies have big filter capaciors at Input. These Capacitors hold charge from 25 ms to 45 ms on load of 300 to 500 watts. When the mains power goes off relay switches battery power to inverter and inverter gets on, generating its own mains supply. And this happens with in 20 to 25 ms which is much shorter than capacitors holdup time of SMPS. Hence PC has contineous supply hence PC doesnt reboot. try changing the two 3300uf capacitors of SMPS to lower value of 1000uf. and then try it with your Lineinteractive or offline UPS, your PC will surely reboot. if you use online UPS this experiment will fail as online UPS doesnt interrupt power to output and its inverter is always ON.

same thing said by a senior member "mariushm" on badcaps ..

Recapping of Corsair VS450 - Badcaps Forums

Now let us verify this info with the tests done by bit-tech.net

Efficiency and Hold-Up Time | bit-tech.ne

Antec Vp 550p - 12v - 8ms , 5v - 11 ms Cap rated at "270uf" with another 550W PSu
Antec HCG 550 - 12v - 13ms , 5v - 30ms cap rated at "390uf"

Corsair vx 430v2 - 12v - 10ms , 5v - 9ms Cap rated at "180uf" with another 430W PSU
Thermaltake 430 - 12v - 16.5ms , 5v - 17.3ms Cap rated at "330uf"

Thermaltake 530 uses the exact same cap as 430 at "330uf" - and it has less hold up time than 430w model.. the seaonic one is using a 440uf rated cap but it had less hold up time on 5v for some reason, probably because maximum alloted Amp on 5v rail less than other 2 models..

Also No/Passive PFC units generally have higher rated caps , whereas APFC usually employs lower rated caps..

CM Elite 400/460 - 560uf x 2 , Antec Bp 450 - 680uf x 2

I have a hard time believing that it's 31ms. It can't be. It should be around 10ms according to Corsair themselves.

it's better not to trust manufacturers when it comes to PSU even big brands like Cooler master lists that CM elite has OCP protection and in reality it does not.. even seasonic listed some protections and hardwaresecrets found out lacking some.. This is more so for budget PSU , as manufacturers try to cut costs.. and i think they just list these specs for the sake of listing it .. they mention standard 10 ms as a hold up time for whole of their CX series , in reality so many models cannot have the same hold up time .. i just checked 1 randomly and CX 650 has a hold up time of 17ms as tested by Tomshardware.. far above than what corsair lists..

Corsair CX650M PSU Load Testin

Models are revised Frequently and official specs are not updated

Like Corsair Cx 430 has 3 versions .. but in that sheet only 1 version is listed..

Corsair Cx 430 and Corsair Cx430v2 indeed have 10ms as they use cheap caps like Samxon rated a low capacity 180uf.. Cx 430 received a lot of backlash if you google ,

now the latest CX 430 , version 3 is using a Panasonic Cap.. This is one of the "Best/High tier" cap only found in PSU costing more than 5-6k .. and even though it is only "180uf" it is posting 30ms because it is from panasonic ... Like the difference between backup up time of local batteries vs exide batteries of same AmpH

If there are voltage fluctuations just use a decent voltage regulator even if the UPS manual says not to connect anything else between it and the wall socket.
The ideal setup would be:
Wall socket --> decent voltage regulator --> APC SmartUPS --> Tier 1-3 quality PSU

Unfortunately this doesn't work where there are frequent fluctuations.. because standard automatic voltage stabiliser also takes some time in switching relays and regulating output if the input voltage is not constant and changes rapidly.. like going from 180v to 150v and then to 170v and back to 180v in a span of 1 second.. and this delay many times confuses UPS as it also has a voltage regulator of it's own inbuilt resulting in longer switch times and sometimes overload beep ..
as a result my pc would not restart most of the times when there was a power cut or if i pulled out the plug from wall socket directly "during steady input voltage" but it would when there were fluctuations ... i was using a crappy psu back then and didn't knew this was the culprit
after changing 3 different ups and enough frustration i just gave up and switched to laptop.. i was looking to buy a psu and then came across VS450 exhibiting the same behaviour

Servo Stabilisers though output a steady voltage , so it is not a problem with them but then they cost a lot the last time i enquired..

If you live in a city where the voltages are stable and power cuts are rare then its better not to use a UPS at all. The occasional power cut isn't going to damage the PC (with a good PSU) .
yeah

Even jonnyGURU doesn't know much about UPSes. jonnyGURU works for Corsair now

ohh didn't knew that

thanks

 

[chimera201]

From what i have read and analysed uf value is the major contributor of hold up value.. i was able to find a few anomalies but by and large it is the uf values that determines Hold up times.. i think secondary caps play a smaller role here but they do influence the results though not to a large extent

BWG550M PSU Interior Component Analysi
Corsair CX750M PSU Interior Component Analysi

Both have the exactly the same Hold-up cap: 1x Nichicon (400V, 390uF, 2000h @ 105°C, GG)
Bitfenix 550W 14.2ms
Corsair CX750M 9.3ms

Another example with same wattage,
SilverStone ST85F-PT PSU Interior Component Analysi
TPG-0850D-R PSU Interior Component Analysi

SilverStone Strider Platinum ST85F-PT : 1x Nippon Chemi-Con (400 V, 680 uF, 2000h @ 105 °C, KMR) --- 10.4ms
Thermaltake Toughpower DPS G RGB 850W : 1x Nippon Chemi-Con (400 V, 560 uF, 2000h @ 105 °C, KMR) --- 15.68ms

So something else is at play here.



And using a voltage regulator works fine without interruption. If you have a crappy UPS and crappy PSU obviously it won't work. And if the UPS is old then the battery might need to be replaced.

- - - Updated - - -

Power Supplies and many components would be coming under BIS certification. I am not sure if this would keep away substandard power supplies from India, but having a standard is something to look forward to.

Certifications doesn't mean much. Even 80Plus Cert doesn't really tell the quality of a PSU, just the efficiency and that too at 30 C temperature. Besides organizations can be bribed. *ahem* Maggi noodles. What we need is at-least 3 different individual professionals that review electronic products independently and make money through ads or something.

 

[Nerevarine]

Kind of offtopic but Maggi noodles, could you elaborate in brief ?

 

[chimera201]

Kind of offtopic but Maggi noodles, could you elaborate in brief ?

How did the Health Ministry give approval to Maggi in 2011? | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysi

 

[gta5]

BWG550M PSU Interior Component Analysi
Corsair CX750M PSU Interior Component Analysi

Both have the exactly the same Hold-up cap: 1x Nichicon (400V, 390uF, 2000h @ 105°C, GG)
Bitfenix 550W 14.2ms
Corsair CX750M 9.3ms

Another example with same wattage,
SilverStone ST85F-PT PSU Interior Component Analysi
TPG-0850D-R PSU Interior Component Analysi

SilverStone Strider Platinum ST85F-PT : 1x Nippon Chemi-Con (400 V, 680 uF, 2000h @ 105 °C, KMR) --- 10.4ms
Thermaltake Toughpower DPS G RGB 850W : 1x Nippon Chemi-Con (400 V, 560 uF, 2000h @ 105 °C, KMR) --- 15.68ms

So something else is at play here.

Hey thanks again for replying .. please don't think of it as a debate or something lol.. i am just trying to understand how these things work myself

Your first example is in line with what i said.. Cx 750m is a 750w psu vs the 550w hence less hold up times even though they both have same cap ..
like the example .. "330uf" for both Thermaltake - Thermaltake 530 ( lower ) vs Thermaltake 430 (higher ) .. 5 litre petrol will burn faster if you run your car at 100kmph , vs 5 litre of petrol will burn slower if you run your car at 50kmph all other things being constant

second example i am not sure what's at play here.. the results aren't divided in 12v vs 5v .. as the allotment of amps (watts ) on 5v are different for both
if you check the breakup of both .. the main one .. which is
Ac loss to "Power ok" is roughly the same for both and it is infact higher for silverstone..
12.8s vs 11.8s
The main results are different because the second value is in minus seconds ( ? )

ofcourse other things like "Secondary Capacitors" that aren't visible in pics must also play a major part and to a lesser extent circuitry..
but if you are approximating results .. the Major factor is "Primary cap" otherwise why would tom's call this as HOLD UP CAP ?

like i said before i was able to find a few weird cases myself but out of 8-9 cases that i checked 6-7 cases were behaving in line with uf values.. and then the main thing - explanations given by many old timer knowledgeable people at various technical forums

And using a voltage regulator works fine without interruption. If you have a crappy UPS and crappy PSU obviously it won't work. And if the UPS is old then the battery might need to be replaced.

I had tried this with top 2 UPS - APC and Microtek ( top in indian brands ) .. both brand new purchased by me .. even tested on 0 load, no monitor etc..
on steady input pc would only restart 1-2 out of 10 times .. but on fluctuations it would restart 6-7 out of 10 times with a good heavy stabiliser installed at mains that takes input from as low as 90v... maximum available in market

the psu was ofcourse crappy but then corsair vs450 seems to be exhibiting the same behaviour of low hold up times

Amazon.in:

Nilesh's review of

*www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2276139/restarts-ups-backup-mode.html

*www.flipkart.com/reviews/f9bc41ea-16f8-4948-aea9-f06154b08d25

and a few other same reviews at various other places i read..

Thanks once again