Android One set for India debut in September; Micromax, Karbonn ready to launch smartphones

[rish1]

lol how did i miss this thread

while i do agree with you on other points but i disagree here...

Running 8 cores together will consume no more power than running 4 cores together because of the dynamic underclocking and limiting the number of cores being used.

that statement is both true and false.. the processor will shut off the cores for all applications except benchmarking apps.. so it won't have much effect on battery but while running benchmarks it will obviously consume more battery .. what you are talking about is thermal throttling all phones will do that even quad core phones as well..

That statement by intel was dismissed by devs as a poor excuse by intel to defend their single/dual core soc's.A lot of anroid apps especially heavy games, browsers and video players effectively use the multicore architecture amd hence will see better performance on the 8 cores.

Multicore yes !! but most are optimized for dual core only with a handfull of games and apps for quad core... there are next to No apps that utilize 8 cores except maybe few converters or benchmarking apps..

In fact it is the GPU which is underused, having a faster GPU is of little advantage because not many apps would be able to utilize it to its full extent.

totally wrong ... its the CPU which is overpowered in today's devices , GPU is seriously underpowered ... why ? because of the stupid PPI race .. putting 1080p and 2k display on a mobile phone that's why there isn't much development in gaming because all the extra GPU power gained by newer GPU is utilized in pushing unnecessary pixels .. if a game developer makes a great game which will utilize good GPU power it will lag on high end devices ... thats why developers have to restrict themselves in making sure that game does not utilize much GPU .. but soon by next year this PPI race will stop and GPU power will increase then there will be lots of great games and they will lag on today's devices.. CPU doesn't run games..

 

[Anorion]

I met a guy who owns a company that does contracted VFX, 3D work for companies outside India
he picks up an expensive phone, and says this is waste of money, you can buy two tvs or a laptop in this much money

I wanted to say you cannot put two tvs or a laptop in your pocket, but I shut up and nodded

that is the mentality, does not matter how much money you have. not only are people unwilling to buy, they try to pull down others who do buy.

 

[srkmish]

When my 4k phone can perform nearly every function . albeit with a lil hiccups from time to time, why should i bother getting a 40k phone. And i have seen top end phones in action. That there is no lag is a myth. If you start putting any android smartphone through its paces, it will show its laggard nature, Samsung first

 

[Anorion]

Spoiler

*i.imgur.com/X4N4Q7f.jpg

 

[rish1]

why are you guys debating ??

everyone needs are different..

some people buy it to show off, status symbol
some people buy it for specs and performance
some people buy it because they have extra cash and don't know anything about tech influenced by big Advertisements
some people buy it because other relatives or friends have bought it
some people buy it for the experience of owning a top end phone
some people buy it for the top end camera + all in one device
some people buy it because of habit of changing phones like clothes
some people buy it because of trying and experimenting with new things ( tech enthusiasts )
some people buy it for gifting
some people buy it to spend black money, they have won a lottery or windfall gain
some people buy it for posting reviews ( bloggers mostly )

there are 100 other reasons , nobody is wrong or right as long as the buyer is happy

 

[Anorion]

^agreed, but then there should not be questions on justifying a (relatively?) cheap or expensive purchase, which happens all the time, even in casual day to day talk outside the tech forum

the review pieces are circulated among bloggers by the companies themselves

 

[rish1]

^agreed, but then there should not be questions on justifying a (relatively?) cheap or expensive purchase, which happens all the time, even in casual day to day talk outside the tech forum

yes but justification depends upon the need like i mentioned before

if somebody's need is to buy it for the high end specs, then that need can be fulfilled by cheaper alternatives like xiaomi etc.. but if the person's need is to buy a reputed branded phone and a great ASS only then no xiaomi , or one plus one will satisfy the need of the buyer... then a person buying it for status symbol will totally hate any cheap less reputed phone..

same thing is with apple and high priced branded clothes , cars, jewellery,headphones etc .. the underlining question is , is the buyer happy and if his need is fulfilled or not ? different people , different needs , different justifications

 

[Anorion]

Apple is not some luxury brand that charges a premium for just slapping on a logo, and not all their buyers get it for show off or bling. Apple are actually the leaders in design or Xiaomi wouldn't have imitated them so much, in UI, product names, and right down to their CEO dressing like Steve Jobs.

and whoever using any phone for showing off is doing it wrong. phones are not meant to be used in public at all
How to Practice Cell Phone Etiquette: 12 Steps (with Pictures)

people don't resent expensive clothes, cars or jewelery, but they instantly resent an expensive phone. Why?
Even the ones having the aforementioned expensive clothes and cars will seethe at an expensive phone and pass comments like "you will get two tvs or a laptop for the price of that mobile".

 

[AbhMkh]

lol how did i miss this thread

while i do agree with you on other points but i disagree here...



that statement is both true and false.. the processor will shut off the cores for all applications except benchmarking apps.. so it won't have much effect on battery but while running benchmarks it will obviously consume more battery .. what you are talking about is thermal throttling all phones will do that even quad core phones as well..


Multicore yes !! but most are optimized for dual core only with a handfull of games and apps for quad core... there are next to No apps that utilize 8 cores except maybe few converters or benchmarking apps..



totally wrong ... its the CPU which is overpowered in today's devices , GPU is seriously underpowered ... why ? because of the stupid PPI race .. putting 1080p and 2k display on a mobile phone that's why there isn't much development in gaming because all the extra GPU power gained by newer GPU is utilized in pushing unnecessary pixels .. if a game developer makes a great game which will utilize good GPU power it will lag on high end devices ... thats why developers have to restrict themselves in making sure that game does not utilize much GPU .. but soon by next year this PPI race will stop and GPU power will increase then there will be lots of great games and they will lag on today's devices.. CPU doesn't run games..

Oh God ! , not another of you guys !. I already finished educating one.

Thermal throttling is a completely different thing.Let me explain to you how the Exynos 5422 Octa core SOC works.If you open cpu z or any other proccy monitoring app you will notice that any given time all 8 cores are active, in an idle state(just browsing through the UI) the Cortex A7 cores clock at just 800 mhz while the Cortex A15 cores clock at 500mhz.Now under load, first the 4 cortex a7 cores are selected and clocked to their max 1.3 ghz speed and if more power is required the the cortex a15 are utilized.

If you aren't aware of this, Cortex A7 is the one used inside phones like Moto G and consumes very less power whereas the Cortex A15 are power hungry, high performance cores.So through dynamic underclocking and core selection battery consumption is reduced.

The quad core chip of the SD801 also saves battery by underclocking the cores but all its cores are the high performance-power hungry cores.

For more info, I encourage you to read up on HMP and ARM's BIG.little architecture.


The MALI T628MP6 inside the exynos 5422 produces 109 Gflops whereas the Adreno 330 inside the SD801 Gflops produces 145 Gflops(30% more) but even the most high end games run equally smooth on both GPU's. The Adreno 330 has nothing to show for with its 30% extra processing power.

While an argument can made for future proofing , the same can be said for quad core vs octa core.


The SD801 has more GPU power to spare whereas the Exynos 5422 has more CPU power to spare.Game physics is run on the CPU

A cpu will never be under utilized because everything from navigating through the interface to opening apps or watching a FHD movie requires the CPU.

 

[rish1]

people don't resent expensive clothes, cars or jewelery, but they instantly resent an expensive phone. Why?

hmm good question , thing is expensive clothes , cars and jewellery have been around for century so people are used to it.. expensive high end smartphones is only a decade old thing , before that expensive phones were there but it was only about utility like able to take a pic , play music and video something people have not seen before ..

and in these past 2-3 years the price of expensive phones has shot up too much as well .. 3 years ago standard flagship price was 30k now it is 50k

a general user would browse,make call,sms,whatsapp,take pic listen music and video play 1 or 2 casual game .. a 10,000-15,000 rs phone from a reputed brand with great ASS can do these things beautifully and have same screen size and looks as a flagship premium phone that is why many people which are general users resent spending on expensive phone because their need is fulfilled by 10-15k phone.. secondly the same expensive phone one buys for 50,000 will drop to 25,000 in a year, these things loose money way too fast.. what will be the resale value only 15-17k for a 50k phone bought a year ago ..

 

[kaz]

I think going for the flagships makes sense...You need the best of everything...You can have a 10-20k phone, but then they are not perfect...Even the 50k ones are not perfect but still far better..
You buy a middle or low end phone, then if it has a good hardware it lacks camera or battery or if has a good camera it has poor hardware and also some consider dev support also(local manufacturers gets kicked here + other dual sim phone which rules the 20k price bracket)... Buy a low end device use it for 2-3 years and selling that won't even fetch you even 2-3k

I am not asking to sell kidneys to buy an iPhone or a Vertu, but if you have the money and you are willing to spend then nothing should stop...

 

[rish1]

Oh God ! , not another of you guys !. I already finished educating one.

hmm not sure if we have chatted before..

Thermal throttling is a completely different thing.Let me explain to you how the Exynos 5422 Octa core SOC works.If you open cpu z or any other proccy monitoring app you will notice that any given time all 8 cores are active, in an idle state(just browsing through the UI) the Cortex A7 cores clock at just 800 mhz while the Cortex A15 cores clock at 500mhz.Now under load, first the 4 cortex a7 cores are selected and clocked to their max 1.3 ghz speed and if more power is required the the cortex a15 are utilized.

If you aren't aware of this, Cortex A7 is the one used inside phones like Moto G and consumes very less power whereas the Cortex A15 are power hungry, high performance cores.So through dynamic underclocking and core selection battery consumption is reduced.

The quad core chip of the SD801 also saves battery by underclocking the cores but all its cores are the high performance-power hungry cores.

For more info, I encourage you to read up on HMP and ARM's BIG.little architecture.

bro we are on totally different page here .. you are talking about Big little here and i was talking about a general quad core vs octa core .. like mediatek quad A7 vs mediatek octa A7 or Sd 410 vs SD 615.. secondly if you are comparing big little then compare it against dual cluster vs quad cluster .. for normal tasks obviously A7 will have higher battery than 801.. cortex A15 is too power hungry and will eat up battery on full load more than Sd 801 .. comparison isn't right here.. you need to compare Sd 810 vs upcoming exynos for a fair comparison..

The MALI T628MP6 inside the exynos 5422 produces 109 Gflops whereas the Adreno 330 inside the SD801 Gflops produces 145 Gflops(30% more) but even the most high end games run equally smooth on both GPU's. The Adreno 330 has nothing to show for with its 30% extra processing power.

While an argument can made for future proofing , the same can be said for quad core vs octa core.

like i said before games aren't utilizing Gpu power in order to support a large no of devices.. regarding octa .. octa core is overkill for a phone and mostly for advertisement.. the best case for octa core is Big.Little and even then it is because the other 4 cores are primarily intended to save battery, they are not made to run full 8 cores at full power for a single application... secondly even in the case of HMP the low power cores will carry out low priority threads, like some background process when all 4 main cores are on full on use.. it will not utilize full 8 cores at full power exclusively for gaming( i am assuming it here as there is no game that uses 8 core to fully test it.. ) so your point of future proofing isn't valid here that it will allow you to run games better in future, and before the time comes where your all 4 main cores are used fully by a game your GPU will most likely bottleneck you by then.. there will be hardly any apps that will utilize full 8 cores . even most laptops don't have 8 cores

The SD801 has more GPU power to spare whereas the Exynos 5422 has more CPU power to spare.Game physics is run on the CPU

A cpu will never be under utilized because everything from navigating through the interface to opening apps or watching a FHD movie requires the CPU.

well theoretically true that CPU will not be under utilized in that way.. but practically it will make very less difference .. as those tasks aren't much cpu intensive for today's processors.. in instance of opening an app the cpu will shoot to maximum but for what only 0.02 secs ? and then will run underclocked most of the time unless it is a game/benchmarking app .. regarding watching FHD movie .. it is primarily done by GPU there are 2 types .. hardware based decoding is done by GPU and if the hardware based isn't supported then it can be emulated by CPU which is what software based decoding is.. but saying watching FHD movie primarily requires the CPU then that is not correct..

even most of today's low end GPU can decode 1080p videos anyways natively . and in SD805 it can playback 4k h.265 video through GPU hardware directly..
.
you are debating CPU vs GPU point with me but why ? both are totally different with different usages

 

[AbhMkh]

hmm not sure if we have chatted before..


bro we are on totally different page here .. you are talking about Big little here and i was talking about a general quad core vs octa core .. like mediatek quad A7 vs mediatek octa A7 or Sd 410 vs SD 615.. secondly if you are comparing big little then compare it against dual cluster vs quad cluster .. for normal tasks obviously A7 will have higher battery than 801.. cortex A15 is too power hungry and will eat up battery on full load more than Sd 801 .. comparison isn't right here.. you need to compare Sd 810 vs upcoming exynos for a fair comparison..


like i said before games aren't utilizing Gpu power in order to support a large no of devices.. regarding octa .. octa core is overkill for a phone and mostly for advertisement.. the best case for octa core is Big.Little and even then it is because the other 4 cores are primarily intended to save battery, they are not made to run full 8 cores at full power for a single application... secondly even in the case of HMP the low power cores will carry out low priority threads, like some background process when all 4 main cores are on full on use.. it will not utilize full 8 cores at full power exclusively for gaming( i am assuming it here as there is no game that uses 8 core to fully test it.. ) so your point of future proofing isn't valid here that it will allow you to run games better in future, and before the time comes where your all 4 main cores are used fully by a game your GPU will most likely bottleneck you by then.. there will be hardly any apps that will utilize full 8 cores . even most laptops don't have 8 cores



well theoretically true that CPU will not be under utilized in that way.. but practically it will make very less difference .. as those tasks aren't much cpu intensive for today's processors.. in instance of opening an app the cpu will shoot to maximum but for what only 0.02 secs ? and then will run underclocked most of the time unless it is a game/benchmarking app .. regarding watching FHD movie .. it is primarily done by GPU there are 2 types .. hardware based decoding is done by GPU and if the hardware based isn't supported then it can be emulated by CPU which is what software based decoding is.. but saying watching FHD movie primarily requires the CPU then that is not correct..

even most of today's low end GPU can decode 1080p videos anyways natively . and in SD805 it can playback 4k h.265 video through GPU hardware directly..
.
you are debating CPU vs GPU point with me but why ? both are totally different with different usages

We were comparing the two chipsets that the Galaxy S5 comes with, Exynos 5422 and SD 801. I don't know how you got on to quad/octa core A7's

The whole point of this discussion was that despite having the capability of running all 8 cores together, the Exynos 5422 matches the SD801 in battery life, even under heavy load.

View attachment 14707


Now, it cannot be said that applications in future would not be able to utilize all the cores or not.A few games have already been optimized for 8 cores and the industry trend is moving towards 8 core chips for eg Qualcomm's latest and greatest, the SD 810 is an octa-core chip.The devs WILL have to optmize games and other heavy apps for octa core chipsets in the future, if not now.

Modern Combat 5 to be specially optimised for MediaTek's MT6592 octa-core chip - Tech2

When it does happen, the Exynos 5422 will have an advantage over the SD 801. The same can be said about the extra processing power in the Adreno 330 of the SD 801.(if in the future the devs decide to use its extra processing power)

So, clearly neither of the two chipsets being offered in the SGS5 is better than the other.Each has its advantage's and disadvantage's.

The Exynos 5422 however wins a few points in my book for using a Wolfson Micro DAC.The SD801 on the other hand uses a pathetic Qualcomm DAC.

 

[rijinpk1]

Oh God ! , not another of you guys !. I already finished educating one.

I stopped because because of too many off-topic posts and not because of your 'tuition' and i knew this was not going anywhere and proceeding further will be a waste of time for both of us

 

[$hadow]

This thread should be in fight club instead of tech news. Everyone seems to be flaming at some one.

 

[ankush28]

This thread should be in fight club instead of tech news. Everyone seems to be flaming at some one.

+1 even offtopic section would be nice