Vista - Will it Fly or Fall

[abhijangda]

It will not fly now my friend but after some 3 or 4 months it will fly becuase at that time many people will have vista compatible pc.
__________
It will not fly now my friend but will fall. After 2 or 3 months it will fly because more people will have vista compatible pc.

 

[gxsaurav]

First of all, cut that crap about having used Mac OS X (any version) already. You have never even seen it apart from screenshots on the internet and maybe a few videos.

What, you think you are the only with Macbook or Apple shops there , or is it that you again got nothing proper to write here. Ask your master, you will know.

If it pops up a UAC dialog when a user tries to install Yahoo! Messenger, iTunes, QuickTime Player and even Windows Live Messenger, the user won't bother to read it when he installs a malicious application either.

The Job of UAC is to inform the user when he is installing an application. If an application is digitally signed by Verisign or any other company, UAC in most cases doesn't asks cos well, the application is trusted. I tried installing Outlook 2007 Junk mail filter yesterday with UAC on & it didn't ask me anything.

intel inside, idiot outside.

it is just UAC I am talking about. UAC is useless. You get that? It is completely and utterly useless and it cannot even prevent one person from a virus.

I see desperation by getting pwned, what do you guys see? I clearly mentioned what UAC does & how it can & even prevented me from installing a Virus myself. you got publically pwned. Why don't you try before you talk anything. The points you mentioned of UAC being useless were pwned by the points I gave.

MacOS X has a password feature to prevent system files. Here is the thing, if u remove that password all your system files can be replaced. In Vista, even if you disable UAC you still cannot replace or change or modify system files.

And the UAC feature in the final version does not improve upon RC1 in any way, shape or form.

The you have not installed Vista RTM, I can bet. Plz post a screenshot of Parallels runing in Window mode with about dialog of Windows Vista. Parallels means you don't even have aero. So much for your "I can install any OS on Mac".

You yourself are stating it quite clearly what Microsoft's goal was behind the UAC (mis)feature. This is just a way to wash their hands off. If people start blaming Microsoft for viruses on their system, they intend to give the excuse that UAC warned them about the potential danger of installing that particular application which injected a virus into the system, never mind the fact that UAC goes off hundred times each day with the exact same warning for perfectly safe applications.

Here is the thing. If MS includes an Anti-Virus in Windows, they will get sued. So UAC is the prevention method informing user what he is doing. MS still releses security updates & application fixes. Just a few months ago they relesed an application compatibility patch so that many application can now work properly with Vista.

I don't have high expectations from someone who spells "whether" as "weather" and "wasn't" as "wasen't" at the age of twenty two

the opinion of people who think they are hot shot geniuses when they have a hard time spelling completely ordinary words matters little!

What I see is desparation & a method to again deviate the thread , You really don't know why I do the mistakes boy, don't you.

It will not fly now my friend but after some 3 or 4 months it will fly becuase at that time many people will have vista compatible pc.

People have Vista capable PCs from the days of Nforce 3 & intel 865G. Cos these are the officialy supported chipsets from Intel & nVidia. Don't know about Via & ATI.

 

[aryayush]

Oh look Ma my Rs. 65K (actual price is more) macbook does not come with a DVDRW, only 60GB HDD and no Nvidia or ATi... what a rip-off.. why don't you put couple of benchmark scores then we can compare how it performs with my Rs. 35K laptop. by d way if you want a windows count another 5-6K. still RIP OFF..

You are lying through your teeth. That configuration is not available on HP's website at all.

 

[amitava82]

oh really? may be you don't have the eye or don't know how to navigate a site. here is some link for you:
*h50188.www5.hp.com/Store/storeModel.asp?familyid=1175&gna=Consumer+Notebooks
*www.computerwarehousepricelist.com/

looks like price has decreased to 31990/-. you can call the shop n ask..

 

[gxsaurav]

@ amitava82

It is already proven fact that Mac are a Rip off, no use telling it again to macboys. Back to the topic plz.

 

[aryayush]

oh really? may be you don't have the eye or don't know how to navigate a site. here is some link for you:
*h50188.www5.hp.com/Store/storeModel.asp?familyid=1175&gna=Consumer+Notebooks
*www.computerwarehousepricelist.com/

looks like price has decreased to 31990/-. you can call the shop n ask..

That machine has a Turion processor with a miserable 512 KB of L2 cache. It does not have any operating system pre-loaded. There is no FireWire port. It does not have a MagSafe power adapter, does not come with onsite warranty and is as ugly as it can get. It also does not have motion sensors that can detect the machine falling or a trackpad that works with two fingers. To top it off, it does not run Mac OS X and most people who have used Mac OS X will agree that it makes spending those few extra bucks worth it.

It is in the low-end segment of the market, totally incomparable to the MacBook. Apple does not compete in the low-end market. If you want a dirt cheap laptop, HP is the way to go.
__________
ComputerWorld's take on UAC:

Will users find the ubiquitous User Account Control prompts mind-numbing? I have no doubt about that.
UAC will be self-defeating because it's annoying and mindless. Although you get used to UAC prompts, what you get used to is that they're coming, and you just click right through them. Some UAC prompts make sense. But even after Microsoft streamlined UAC to avoid this problem, it's still overkill. Now that Vista has shipped and my review work is finished, I'll admit it: I turn off UAC on my machines. But here's the most important point: I've never even looked to find the off button for a similar feature on the Macintosh. Why? Because Apple smartly reserved the prompts for the most dangerous things, not everything.

Bottom line: UAC and a few other somewhat invasive security measures are not about protecting customers; they're about protecting Microsoft from negative publicity.

I swear I had never read this little bit before posting my opinion, but as you can see it echoes exactly the same opinion that I hold:

You yourself are stating it quite clearly what Microsoft's goal was behind the UAC (mis)feature. This is just a way to wash their hands off.

Here's a more detailed explanation from the same website but a different reviewer:

UAC is not smart in any way. It doesn't try to discern something that might actually be a threat. It just throws up a prompt about something that might conceivably be exploited. It also doesn't ever relax. You could click the System Control Panel (also called Advanced System Settings in some areas of Vista) 75 times in a row, and it would prompt you with the statement "Windows needs your permission to continue" every time. So basically, it adds an extra click to the process of accessing this tool.

There is nothing inherently wrong with this approach, which has been used by other operating systems before. It's not a new idea, and it's not a bad idea. But the devil is in the details of how it's implemented. As a Johnny-come-relatively-lately to the security bandwagon, Microsoft has embraced security principles fervently. What that means is that, if there's even a small chance that opening a settings dialog box, starting up an applet, or running an installation program could present even a slight security risk, Windows Vista is going to prompt you with some sort of UAC dialog box asking for permission to proceed.

This is a short list of just a few of the processes that require confirmation to initiate:

Opening Disk Defragmenter, System Restore, Task Scheduler or Windows Easy Transfer
Adjusting font size, connecting to a Network Projector (opens two dialog boxes in succession) or accessing Remote settings
Opening these control panels: Add Hardware, BitLocker, Device Manager, iSCSI Initiator, Parental Controls, Advanced System Settings, System Protection or Remote Settings

Additionally, many processes that don't prompt you at launch, such as Windows Defender, Windows Firewall, Ease of Access, Internet Options and a long list of others, do require your permission for specific settings.
Taken one by one, most of the processes that are gated by UAC seem very reasonable. Microsoft rethought a great many restrictions that made little sense between Vista Beta 2 and RC1. But taken as a whole, UAC is going to seem like a burden to many users who are tired of Microsoft and other software makers protecting us from ourselves.

Proponents of UAC claim that after the first several days or weeks after Vista is first installed (or you receive it on a new PC), the experience of constantly being confronted with UAC dialogs slows down. But for some people, UAC numbness creeps in quickly. How long before they stop reading the prompts or considering what they mean and just click OK every time? It can quickly become muscle memory.

The average Vista user will have little idea about the rationale behind UAC prompts. To that person, UAC may seem scary at first but quickly became a petty annoyance. How long before people realize they can turn off UAC in the User Account Control Panel?

This is the worst problem about UAC. Has Microsoft overbalanced it, and turned it into something that will actually defeat its purpose? There's a very real possibility of that.

This is the opinion of professional tech writers and reviewers, and I do not need to remind you that it is not your opinions that matter most, it is theirs.

And don't expect me to post another reply to the useless comments you are going to post countering this.

 

[gxsaurav]

This is the opinion of professional tech writers and reviewers, and I do not need to remind you that it is not your opinions that matter most, it is theirs.

Who are again computer users, who were once normal users like me & you. Which means mine & yours point of view does matters now. Welcome to Web 2.0 which constitutes of user generated content.

UAC and a few other somewhat invasive security measures are not about protecting customers; they're about protecting Microsoft from negative publicity.

In MacOS X & Linux the installer package is in the form of .dmg or .mo .rpm or .deb, while the real application is in the form of .bin (usually). In Windows there is a problem. Both the setup & executable have the same extension .exe. Now MS tried to solve this problem using .net 2.0 & Windows installer 3.0 which many companies have adopted. The setup package is .msi while the executable is .exe, but still there are many old applications & setup so MS cannot completely remove the backward compatibility resulting in UAC giving a prompt whenever you try to install software. Nothing wrong with that, if you find it annoying than disable it. Vista still protects you from screwing your computer by restricting user modification to system files & by using windows defender, IE 7 (Phishing filter) & DEP.

I myself said above, UAC needs some modification like "Remember my settings" check box. It is not bad & it is required. The text you copy pasted says this too.

There is nothing inherently wrong with this approach, which has been used by other operating systems before. It's not a new idea, and it's not a bad idea. But the devil is in the details of how it's implemented.

And don't expect me to post another reply to the useless comments you are going to post countering this.

So my points are always useless justifying why Vista is stronger & better while your points which are baseless & just got pwned are not useless..., I really don't expect you to post anything here, cos you don't have anything proper to say anymore. If there is no Mac-bashing, you don't have anything to say & I no longer bash Mac here cos it's beyond the scope of this thread. The only thing you have knowledge about is Mac & Apple centric, why don't you try Vista properly for 1 week before saying anything. Most of the application you use on Mac are also available on Vista already. Just remember...

1) Your primary computer is Mac, so do not use outlook express\Windows Mail. Cos then how will u transfer mails to your Mac Mail.app

2) Transfer your firefox or opera preference & bookmarks.

3) Transfer your iTunes playlists & songs.

Back to the topic, like I said before that despite the somewhat annoying implementation of UAC, it is not the show stopper. 61 users have so far voted that Vista willl run.

 

[tarey_g]

Awesome quote of the day , and its true from business point of view

"If they're going to pirate somebody, we want it to be us rather than somebody else." -- Microsoft Business Group President Jeff Raikes

atleast don't fight over this , the whole thread is full of fanboy crap already.

 

[amitava82]

i like this one.. and its true. if you apply little common sense, u'll get to know the strategy behind this. surely those guys know how to run a business...

 

[gxsaurav]

Well, with the advancement & shrinking of technology, it's becoming a part of our lives. Computer will no longer be Geek boxes, they will be just another consumar device, & the day is not far when it will be in the drawing room with TV or game console. Actully they are already there.

Here is the thing, Vista provides a much better UI then Windows XP. For users using the Windows XP Lune interface, the Aero Glass is really a "Wow". There day to day tasks are easier to perform now just because of new UI in Vista. Most important, it runs on the same hardware people are using already. Rest of the features are under the hood & people hardly care for it. Average Joe wants his new OS to give him the Wow, to run on his existing hardware, to work with all the 3rd party hardware out there & most important to run faster then the previous OS.

Power users are not affected by such tactics, they buy whatever they find the maximum bang for money. Why do you think nVidia Geforce mainstream series sales more then the high-end series.?

MS knows what piracy means. Piracy is what made Windows so popular. Desktop lavel piracy doesn't affect MS much & they know offices & professional can't use Pirated OS anyway in there production pipeline. However, a pirated Windows help people in learning computing, helps students in learning programing, CAD & what not which results in people going up & growing up to buy & use the other services MS gives & that is something MS wants. Windows Live services are going strong.

 

[shantanu]

*www.marrathon.com/whymac.html

Today i got some reasons why to have a MAC

 

[Richardwu]

Hello to everyone,

As the debate was going on, i also would like to participate in this.Windows Vista is surely an outperforming operating System, Which gives its users a great feel of performance. Its the first ever Os which is not BIOS dependable,
It does not require a BIOS in system to run, In coming future the motherboards will only contain a EFI chip and a TPM solution for security, Without a BIOS Windows vista will self initialize the components and gives enhabced accelleration to the system, With it limited release now the PC user community is experiencing onyl 50% of vista performance, In the upcoming years we will have more compatiblity for vista & it will surely take over the market.
Every OS has its own positive points which are to be counted, Macs ,linux are both outstanding platforms to work upon, but after reading all the posts i dont even find a single correct answer given either by gx_saurav or by aryayush, just commenting upon a topic does not make a debate, you should have some backing in what you say,

Now about features of Windows Vista, Yes UAC is still in development and after some more enhancements Windows Vista will UAC and Windows defender and Walls of Security, which are another nice step.

Just dont comment without gathering complete information.

 

[mediator]

@Richard : Welcome to the forums! Best of luck for ur participation in the debate . As for aayush and saurav, they r kinda best friends n have been chatting for a long time with enough links on their side as far as I can remember their happy conversations right!!

 

[gxsaurav]

Hello to everyone,

As the debate was going on, i also would like to participate in this.Windows Vista is surely an outperforming operating System, Which gives its users a great feel of performance. Its the first ever Os which is not BIOS dependable,
It does not require a BIOS in system to run, In coming future the motherboards will only contain a EFI chip and a TPM solution for security, Without a BIOS Windows vista will self initialize the components and gives enhabced accelleration to the system, With it limited release now the PC user community is experiencing onyl 50% of vista performance, In the upcoming years we will have more compatiblity for vista & it will surely take over the market.
Every OS has its own positive points which are to be counted, Macs ,linux are both outstanding platforms to work upon, but after reading all the posts i dont even find a single correct answer given either by gx_saurav or by aryayush, just commenting upon a topic does not make a debate, you should have some backing in what you say,

Now about features of Windows Vista, Yes UAC is still in development and after some more enhancements Windows Vista will UAC and Windows defender and Walls of Security, which are another nice step.

Just dont comment without gathering complete information.

Glad to hear your reply . I have used Vista since beta 1 days & I can say how good it has evolved. Here is the thing, I have used MacOS a lot too from the days of OS 9, got access to it in my institute here as a Mac mini (for education purpose only) so I can say where both of these systems lack & prevail. I gave reasons why Mac is not so better, & when Arya asked "What features vista gives over XP" & gave the feature list & after that there was nothing he could say.

@Richard : Welcome to the forums! Best of luck for ur participation in the debate . As for aayush and saurav, they r kinda best friends n have been chatting for a long time with enough links on their side as far as I can remember their happy conversations right!!

abe tu mar kahega , we are not friends from any angle. I do realise that he is just a kid & needs to learn what computing is & he has to understand that Computing is much more then Apple mac. the thing is his arrogent attitude which usually is common with kids of his age (don't worry, even i was like this once , check my ATI vs nVidia posts from 3 years back)

 

[mediator]

^Cmon man, there's no reason for why u shudn't be friends with him/anyone. To me, u two guys seem to be the "bestest" friends on earth always making this forum a lively and happening place.

To the topic : Vista May fly. There r too many factors that govern this! So can't say much!

 

[Richardwu]

Thanks to you Mr.mediator!
its very strange to know that you guys dont put up your names on the forum board,
Coming to topic,
gx_saurav, Use of mac and or windows is based upon our personal experience, its very nice to know that you are using Vista from its beta phase, were you involved in the beta testing of the operating system, Beta and Droo phase were just beginning of Vista's kernel, and all the development started after that, Yes , vista has evolved with a great apperance and feature content and makes the future of computing very wide and reliable, making and deploying vista was the greatest challenge for Microsoft Corporation inc. in its history of software development, there are many features which are still hidden from users like you, which will come up after some time of development and with coming time and technology, Vista makes another change in UI which is to present 64 bit color depth in next one year, with BluRAY & HD coming in reach for technology enthusiast, computing will change its way to a very different outsourced world, Vista is surely better at times and right now the most Advanced Platform to work upon.
Whereas Mac is not very behind, its also coming up with more options in future for their users, Mac gives extra potential and grace to its users, you say that you are a MAC user from a long time , so you must be knowing the simplicity of MACs.
They were quite better than Xp, but then also they lacked some fields which XP had, and Xp lacked some UI which MAC had, so the thing is you cannot say which is better, Every day technology changes and makes difference, today MAC are better , so tomorrow Vista.

 

[gxsaurav]

were you involved in the beta testing of the operating system

Yup, Official Windows Vista beta tester.

64 bit color is already there in the graphics card from DirectX 9a time. But not in desktop UI. With Vista it will be unleased. It's true that to the average Joe vista will just feel faster then XP on the same hardware & a better UI cos he doesn't care how things works.

Macs are indeed simple. i don't have a problem with MacOS X or Apple hardware, they are some of the best designed machines out there. But I do have a problem with arrogent Mac users, who for no reason think of themselves as the only users who know how to work on a computer. i do have a probelm with there arrogent marketing techniques which binds you to the hardware & makes it really hard to to upgrade on your own, resulting in very low 3rd party hardware support. Comon man, It's just another PC, for gods sake open up the system.

Two reason which I forgot to mention before, another First in Vista

1) HD Audio & it's features

2) Enhanced I\O performance with SATA\HHD resulting in much better harddisk performance then just DMA.

 

[Richardwu]

So , it was nice meeting you here MR. gx_saurav, its another good news that you are a beta tester for Microsoft , i think from beta phase as you say, not in Droo Phase,
As i said before Vista makes many positives and that we should only discuss after a perfect information gathering,

The 2nd features is not Vista Exclusive, you have them in Windows Xp also,
the first feature is a Dual variety enhancement made to vista, thats true in every sense,
Whats makes you feel you are a perfect windows user ?
and a request : can you provide me with your connect ID.

 

[gxsaurav]

i filed my name for Windows Vista beta testing before Beta 1 was relesed. Got selected as an official one when Beta 2 was relesed. Don't ask how I got access to beta 1 (the old fashioned way) .

The 2nd feature of Cache in HD is there in XP 64bit only, which never catched up.

Whats makes you feel you are a perfect windows user ?
and a request : can you provide me with your connect ID.

Who said I m a perfect Windows user richard. I just don't talk about a feature or flaw of my OS weather it is Linux or Vista or XP without looking myself. There are many things I still don't know about XP, ask Vishal Gupta, he has littrally torned apart Windows XP & disected it . He can very well be Dr. of XP

& Sorry, I m not comfortable with giving my connect ID . Good night.

 

[Richardwu]

I tossed up a question to you ! that what it is that makes you feel you are a perfect windows user, i would have written as essay over it, i just asked your Personal opinion ? i didnt doubt as you capabities,

and its very fine if you are not comfortable.