*** Science Or God? ***

[Faun]

Also, many are atheists only during debates, but at home will eat prasad, touch elder's feet, and all that.

What's the point here ?

 

[Anorion]

^it's very impractical to be an atheist, no real benefit from it

 

[theserpent]

Okay please tell me whats the use on spending 50k on a pooja?Instead give the money to the poor/child/old age homes

 

[Anorion]

^it's exactly that, Temple runs many hospitals, schools, orphanages

have nothing against atheism, do your thing, but just don't call believers blind, stupid, ignorant, superstitious, because many people are smart enough to know all this and still believe in god

best science can do is Richard Dawkins? his web site is full of extremist stuff you can find in the cult hide outs. have you ever asked the question if at least some of science is a self sustaining, perfect lie, just like the alleged god? Because, it totally is. Just look at what scientists believed 200 years ago. Religious people are still carrying forward bronze age belief systems, they are relevant even today.

 

[Faun]

@Anorion
are you dead sure that the amount donated is not used for selfish purposes and other illegal activities. Why not help someone who is in immediate reach of yours directly ?

A life without believing in God is good enough for me. I don't see the impractical stuff.

A huge number of believers can be swayed with one word of their religious leaders. Just look at the recent events.

Ignorantly flawed statement.

He (Mr. speedyguy) is just another Indian oblivious of the teachings of other religions and assuming that everything rosy out there. Not his fault for not doing enough research on this subject :sarcasm:

Enjoy~!

 

[speedyguy]

@Rishabh_sharma1990 : You should prefer not to pin point and speak such about a particular religion. You do not belong to that religion and no one gives you such rights to do so in public, we don't want a new topic here. People who are taught like that are not teaching what is written in their holy book Quran. Quran also teaches peace and that is what real muslims follow. People who teach such things are misguiders, not God. Thats my point, in the name of religion, people are taught bad things by wrong people even though the religion does not say that. We are all humans with 2 hands, 2 legs and a face. But we are divided by religions and communities and we assume other communities are the worst of all/our enemies. Your statement clearly speaks how adverse impact religionism has on you. And there are many like you who will ensure peace is not our cup of coffee.
PS: I'm not discussing about a particular religion any more so your statements pointing such things would be ignored by me, no offence.

Secularism, has allowed people from different religions to migrate in India, furthermore has also divided India into different states. Need not mention the adverse impacts of this in our day to day life, especially if you are studying/working in some other state. Feels like a new planet.

@ Anorion: And, who on earth says if you come from a "Yoga teachers" family you are bound to become another Yoga teacher. Every child is born with his own destiny. He/she has his full rights to choose a path of his wish and should be intervened only if he/she chooses the wrong path. They are still not selfish, infact its unjustified act by parents if they push their children to follow them. That I shall say another adverse impact of religion and belief.

Enjoy~!

 

[rishitells]

He is just another Indian oblivious of the teachings of other religions and assuming that everything rosy out there. Not his fault for not doing enough research on this subject.

Expected answer. Well I know you (@SpeedyGuy) have problem accepting the Hard-Hitting facts about Islam which you are unable to disprove, so wrap them in a 'Secular', 'All-One' kinda package and you are done!
Listen man, this is a debate, and I don't feel restricted here for not naming, or not retelling the bitter truths of any group of people (Islam, here). I am sure I will not be stoned to death, or my throat cut in the name of God here. And nobody here will issue a Fatwa against me.
I wish I could do the same for Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism.. but Alas, I can't find even a 'Single' teaching, which you can even 'question'.

The problem and conflict arises in people when they claim 'Exclusivity', as Rajiv Malhotra points out. Islam, Christianity like religions fall in this category where they 'Claim', that theirs is the 'Only-Truth', and everything else is a crap and must be destroyed (The reason Nalanda, Takshila was destroyed).
The fundamental principal of Islam is 'intolerance' towards Non-Believers, or Atheists (Kaafir). They want to covert me into their belief, and that's where I have a problem, and always will be.

Then there is Hinduism, Buddhism and eastern philosophies which are based on the belief of 'Vasudhev Kutumbakam', i.e. "all the world is a family". Thousands of years, and Indian-Civilization is still alive. It's just because of the respect towards each and every element of universe we people have. And I again point out, it is only because of the Majority of Hindus, Sikhs that you have 'Secularism'.
Name me ANY Islamic 'Secular' country, where you can preach Hinduism, Christianity or anything.

What I basically want to point out, that 'Do Not Generalize' everything. There is a Fundamental difference between eastern and western philosophies, and teachings. It doesn't mean West has not had any Great Teacher, or East has always been 'Rosy', but that only means 'there is difference', just as you and me are different, just as sun and moon are different from each other, just as two galaxies are different. Hope you are getting the right meaning. Difference is in our Nature, and this difference has led to the the creation of various groups of people, religions, philosophies in humans.

Problem is in 'Exclusivity', when you are not willing to respect the other, just like 'you' people are not willing to respect 'God-Believers' (Yes, that is also a kind of Extremism)

@SpeedyGuy It's not religionism man. You people are so fast in categorizing people, and then you blame religion for dividing? If you have a problem in reading 'Pointed-Out-Hard-Facts', then please for God's sake.. err.. for Science' Sake , do not participate in this 'God vs Science' debate, which is more 'Religion vs Science'.
But anyway, rest assured, this was the last time I pointed out the 'Religion of Peace'. I do not want any Fatwa against me

 

[speedyguy]

@Rishabh_sharma1990 : Thanks for your advice but no thanks, I don't need your decision on participating in this debate or not. If you can't handle it just say it as it doesn't matter whatever your personal perceptions are. And yes, you still continue to show the adverse effects of "religionism".

The most fatal wars these days are only due to ethinic clashes. These are just because people belong to different ethinicity and hardly you find people who actually understand and respect other religions.

Enjoy~!

 

[Faun]

Expected answer.

My comment was directed towards Mr. speedyguy. Amended my post to remove confusion.

I know the difference between abrahamic exclusivity and dharmic non-exclusivity. I was the one reading a lot into religious scriptures a couple of years back.

The most fatal wars these days are only due to ethinic clashes. These are just because people belong to different ethinicity and hardly you find people who actually understand and respect other religions.

Enjoy~!

May be if you read up more on the subject.

Enjoy~!

Problem is in 'Exclusivity', when you are not willing to respect the other, just like 'you' people are not willing to respect 'God-Believers' (Yes, that is also a kind of Extremism)

I don't have problem with other people's belief as long as they keep it to their individual spheres and not turn into an organized raging army of drones.

It's not like I don't give respect to my mom because she is a God believer. She never forced this religious mumbo jumbo on me and I respect her for that and for reasons far more than this.

 

[speedyguy]

I don't have problem with other people's belief as long as they keep it to their individual spheres and not turn into an organized raging army of drones.

It's not like I don't give respect to my mom because she is a God believer. She never forced this religious mumbo jumbo on me and I respect her for that and for reasons far more than this.

Good Point.

Enjoy~!

 

[Anish]

A great preacher told "One who doesn't believe in himself is called an atheist!" and "If you have love as one of your qualities, you do not need to follow any religion and all of the religion tries to teach to be lovable!"
It can be clearly inferred from the above sentence that all that matters is self-confidence and love towards other beings.!
And this ultimately narrows down to one thing: Man had tried from age old days, to unite his species by various ways

 

[rhitwick]

ok will say how this prayer brainwave came about to me
on a trek. there was a steep incline, fort on top, and path leading to the fort. I was on top of the fort, watching a group come up the path. One oversmart guy thought he could skip the path, and just go straight up the incline to the fort... where I was seeing him from. None of his group members had the sense to stop him. See him coming up fast, and it's easy to go up a steep slope, but it's a one-way road, once you start like that you can only slide down. But he made it almost to the top, about five meters from the edge of the fort wall, he stopped at a particularly steep area, difficult to go on. Then he saw behind him how steep it was. Then he went sideways to try a slightly diff route, and slipped. Donno if he panicked and then he slipped, or he panicked after he slipped. He slipped for a little distance and grabbed the hill side with his fingers used like claws. Then he started looking around helplessly, and I saw him praying. No folded hands or anything, but you could clearly see him wishing he was out of that place. He turned around, sat down, wiped sweat from face and looked skywards. This was not a conscious motion, but a very animal-like one. And then after about two-three minutes, he slowly and carefully, looking around at the terrain made it to the wall of the fort, and walked along the edge till he found a broken bit he climbed over.

this incident made me think specifically prayer and maybe religion has some natural aspects to it, that we have become very separated from.
you can say it was his own self control. does not stop from prayer being a component of it.

You know, I was wondering, what happened to you?! You have posted in this thread but never in this tone. I was wondering if you encountered any miracle yourself or got a visit from any god. But, well, this will do too.

And, the incident explains nothing. He prayed. You have never mentioned if he was an atheist and prayed when in danger.

Being an atheist is not a style statement, its not same as wearing a "Che Guevara" T-shirt to scream to world you are a rebel, its not also being a rebel. Being an atheist is a responsibility to be with logic always. ALWAYS. (Now obvious question if I follow the same? I do, yes I do. But I've never prayed since the day I'm on the path of atheism. Though I've not come to a situation like falling off mountain cliff but I've encountered workplace disasters; server kaput 1hr b4 client demo, code not working way beyond deadline...these are IT nightmares. But i never prayed. I know there is none to help me and I've to clean the mess I did)

If you ask me to learn Yoga, and I don't then that's not selfish. But if I come from a family of Yoga Teachers, or say mridangam players, and I don't turn out to be a Yoga Teacher or a Mridangam Player myself, just like my ancestors, would call that at least a lil bit selfish.

How is this being selfish? Whereas your parents kept an open mind to not force you into family tradition, you are feeling guilty for not being in family tradition. Be a mridangam player or a yoga teacher or whatever you want but saying that you are doing this because your ancestors did it is wrong. Its like you are doing a favor to them and they should be thankful to you. In your mind you would always knew you could have been anything but you "chose" to be a yoga teacher. Choosing your family tradition is your option, don't make it a sacrifice.

And, if I generalize your comment a bit more, this whole debate on castesism is pointless. In your line, everyone should follow what their ancestors did.

There are many, many benefits of belief and religion.

You have used "many" twice, now i really like to know all those benefits, may be after listening I might turn into a believer!

Atheists, simply throw all these away as irrational, superstitious, and stupid, another way to assert their independence.

Atheists do not throw things away just because the thing is attached to some God related issue. The basic funda of atheism is questioning. We question all ideas. We crave for logic, reasoning and facts. If an incident can be measured in these yardsticks we will accept it but if it can't be well be happy with your beliefs but spare me.

There are extremists in Atheism too. There are few who makes it their responsibility to force people to convert. Convert to non-believer from a believer. Those are over-enthusiastic and knows little about "why"s of God and science.
Once I was one of them too. But, now I've understood one thing, peace is important, irrespective of which way it comes. If someone is doing good to mankind and believes in God, I no more see any harm in him/her. But I hate people who claims things. They should not do that. If you claim, I'll question you and you have to give an answer which can be measured in these parameters: facts, logic and reasoning.

Also, many are atheists only during debates, but at home will eat prasad, touch elder's feet, and all that. Wudn't call them hypocrites.

A prasad is a food too, and at time very delicious one. We just fall prey to our very basic primate instincts and eat 'em.

You strictly can practice religion for it's community benefits (Christmas, Ganesh Utsav, eg), even without believing in or God

Exactly!

 

[theserpent]

@Anorion
are you dead sure that the amount donated is not used for selfish purposes and other illegal activities. Why not help someone who is in immediate reach of yours directly ?

A life without believing in God is good enough for me. I don't see the impractical stuff.

A huge number of believers can be swayed with one word of their religious leaders. Just look at the recent events.



He (Mr. speedyguy) is just another Indian oblivious of the teachings of other religions and assuming that everything rosy out there. Not his fault for not doing enough research on this subject :sarcasm:

Enjoy~!

Exactly.
Suppose say i launch a product i want it to go viral..What should i do.Wait let me think....
Let me say that if you buy this product and drink the water everyday and chant the name of god you will live for 100 years.
100000'S of people belive this
You'll should listen to talks of *en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narendra_Nayak

Some of his words
Sages put some chemicals in your hand which they call as holy powder.
In some peoples hand they put two chemicals which..change color.
So the people,whose hand changes to red.They say your effected by EVIL.
Pay Rs.X and get this thing.
You'll be free from evil

 

[rishitells]

My comment was directed towards Mr. speedyguy. Amended my post to remove confusion.

I know the difference between abrahamic exclusivity and dharmic non-exclusivity. I was the one reading a lot into religious scriptures a couple of years back.]

May be if you read up more on the subject.
.

Thanks for removing the confusion brother. And my reply too, was directed towards SpeedyGuy

 

[theserpent]

A Group Of Travelers teaming up to educate villagers on Holy Miracles - YouTube

*www.youtube.com/watch?v=R52pcyKEFAQ

 

[mediator]

Quran also teaches peace and that is what real muslims follow. People who teach such things are misguiders, not God.

On one hand you think others shouldn't talk about a "particular religion" and then you are fancying with Islam.


O you who believe, take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends of each other. And whoever amongst you takes them for friends he is indeed one of them. Surely Allåh guides not the unjust people. (Quran 5.51)


“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger [i.e., Muhammad], and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter. ( Quran 5.33)”


Fight those who believe not in Allåh, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which Allåh and His Messenger have forbidden, nor follow the Religion of Truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgement of superiority and they are in a state of s subjection (9.29)


Quran not only talks about a particular religion, but calls to destroy those who do not believe in Islam. Perhaps, you should tell the maulanas that Quran should not talk about "Jews and Christians" and infidels. The above source is from muslim.org. I have quoted the same old thing many times in the past, but many people with the same mentality that "All religions are the same", busy tagging themselves into the foolish definitions of theists and atheists which are based on Abrahamic framework and not Indian could neither provide me an alternate translation let alone disconnecting it from the ignorant idea of "Islam teaches peace". The above is just a salad. If you think it is flawed, then I request you the same to find me alternate translations for it which do not talk of killing jews, christians and infidels.




@Rishabh has told you some wonderful concepts. The Indian thought is neither about some religion or god or atheists or theists. It is much beyond these limited and childish taggings, the fancies of an immature mind which people in this thread have still not graduated from. The Indian thought is neither about the impressions you recieve from the TV shows and serials where the devi-devtas are busy conspiring, marrying and leading a life like that of humans. If you are speaking about secularism, then do understand where, how and why it came into being in Europe.


The Islam speaks about judging the taggings of Jews and Christians and killing the people tagged under such banner. Can you tell if any of the Indian texts like Guru Granth Sahib, Upanishads etc speak about killing and judging someone called "Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist etc"?


The Quran speaks about attachment to a name Allah : la ilaha il-alaha, mohammed urrasool allah, whereas the Indian texts speak about nameless : Ekam satviprabahuda vadanti, where the infinite is nameless yet called by various names like brahman, purusha (not purush i.e guy if you think) etc, formless yet manifests into various forms like different waves from the same ocean, where that "ideal ocean" is infinite and its essence, the central binding force, immutable, whereas the waves are finite and mutable some marked with a sense of "I" and some not! To be explicit, I hope you understand the metaphor. Many people I discuss this, esp. atheists, think I'm talking about oceans literally. No wonder, they cannot understand the Indian shrutis.

When a man liberated, free from attachment, with his mind, heart and spirit firmly founded in self-knowledge, does works as sacrifice, all his work is dissolved. Brahman is the giving, Brahman is the food-offering, by Brahman it is offered into the Brahman fire, Brahman is that which is to be attained by samadhi in Brahman-action. ( BG 4.23-24)

If you understand any of the above distinctions, then proceed to this for further details : Theism and Vedas | The Chakra News




If you understand that, do read Aurobindo's : The secret of Vedas. It is available freely with pdf format. Trust me, you'll laugh yourself at the average understanding of the Indian philosophies which we see in this thread alone which is not even intellectual in nature, let alone being intelligent!


Like Zakir Naik speaks in inferior words : In Islam everything is "God's" (with an apostrophe s, which is the whole central point of discussion in this thread i.e Modern Science Vs God, who is actually Abrahamic and not Indian devi or Devta) where as in Hinduism everything is God (In Hindi it means divya and divya is not the same as God. These devi-devta are the different powers of the infinite, like air/wind, water, intellect, mind, supermind which are called by terminologies like vayu, varuna, indra, Vishnu etc in the Vedas, Shakti and Shiva in the Tantras, purusha and prakriti in the Gita etc . From divya comes the sanskrit offsprings like deva and even Maya is a devi. There is a similar analogy to the Greek philosophy as well). He, Zakir, surely doesn't know how he himself is making a mockery of Islam! IMO, he is speaking the truth.


I can see that your thoughts are noble, but there is still an immense amount of conditioning where your views, both positive and negative, are based on abrahamic thought and not Indian at all. It is the story of most of the Indians today who assume on Indian texts based on the perceptions from TV shows and movies like Jaani Dushman, Freddy Vs Jason etc, instead of reading the texts and behave in the exact way that the missionaries like Max muller, Griffith, Bloomsfield wanted them to, the missionaries who mistranslated many of the Indian works like Vedas through their degraded understanding based on the same taggings like Theism, Atheism, Religion where they saw Vedas to be speaking about Gods figting and worshipping different animals like Cow, Horse etc and drinking liquor called Soma . If you are thinking of tagging me into some words like theist, atheist, religionist etc, then feel free. I'd only ask you to rise beyond these childish terminologies!








Some excerpts from Secret of The Vedas -----


The word go means both cow and light and in a number of passages evidently meant light even while putting forward the image of the cow. This is clear enough
when we have to do with the cows of the sun — the Homeric kine of Helios — and the cows of the Dawn. Psychologically, the physical Light might well be used as a symbol of knowledge and especially of the divine knowledge (Page 43) { i.e cow is the metaphor of light or wisdom/knowledge recieved}


Indra is invoked as the maker of perfect forms to drink the wine of Soma; drinking he becomes full of ecstasy and a “giver of cows” .... A study
s of the Vedic horse led me to the conclusion that go and asva represent the two companion ideas of Light and Energy, Consciousness and Force, which to the Vedic and Vedantic mind were the double or twin aspect of all the activities of existence. (Page 44) { i.e mind is illumined when by the sheer amount of knowledge, the eternal bliss, the truth and thus "giver of cows" by which we can act objectively and wisely }


Agni for the ordinary worshipper may have meant simply the god of the Vedic fire, or it may have meant the principle of Heat and Light in physical Nature, or to the most ignorant it may have meant simply a superhuman personage, one of the many “givers of wealth”, satisfiers of human desire. How suggest to those capable of a deeper conception the psychological functions of the God? The word itself fulfilled that service. For Agni meant the Strong, it meant the Bright, or even Force, Brilliance. So it could easily recall to the initiated, wherever it occurred, the idea of the illumined Energy which builds up the worlds and which exalts man to the Highest, the doer of the great work, the Purohit of the human sacrifice. (Page 56) { i.e Agni is the will power, the force which is one the first devtas who is invoked by Indra i.e mind/itelligence. Obviously this is true in any case. If you want to learn guitar, your mind will automatically increase focus. }


This wine of Soma represents, as we have abundant proof in the Veda and especially in the ninth book, a collection of more than a hundred hymns addressed to the deity Soma, the intoxication of the Ananda, the divine delight of being, inflowing upon the mind from the supramental consciousness through the Ritam or Truth. If we accept these interpretations, we can easily translate the hymn into its psychological significance. (Page 74) { i.e The awakening as experienced by the mind, metaphorically written in the form of drinking of soma by Indra. }


What can these rivers be whose wave is full of Soma wine, full of the ghrta, full of urj, the energy? What are these waters that flow to the goal of the gods’ movement, that establish for man the supreme good?....Obviously these are the waters of the Truth and the Bliss that flow from the supreme ocean. These rivers flow not upon earth, but in heaven; they are prevented by Vritra the Besieger, the Coverer from flowing down upon the earth-consciousness in which we mortals live till Indra, the god-mind, smites the Coverer with his flashing lightnings and cuts out a passage on the summits of that earth-consciousness down which they can flow. Such is the only rational, coherent and sensible explanation of the thought and language of the Vedic sages. (Page 113)


This matter of the lost herds is only part of a whole system of connected symbols and images. They are recovered by the sacrifice and the fiery god Agni is the flame, the power and the priest of the sacrifice; — by the Word, and Brihaspati is the father of the Word, the Maruts its singers or Brahmas, brahmano marutah, Saraswati its inspiration; — by the Wine, and Soma is the god of the Wine and the Ashwins its seekers, finders, givers, drinkers. The herds are the herds of Light and the Light comes
by the Dawn and by the Sun of whom Pushan is a form. Finally, Indra is the head of all these gods, lord of the light, king of the luminous heaven called Swar, — he is, we say, the luminous or divine Mind; into him all the gods enter and take part in his unveiling of the hidden light. We see therefore that there is a perfect appropriateness in the attribution of one and the same victory to these different deities and in Madhuchchhandas’ image of the gods entering into Indra for the stroke against Vala. Nothing has been done at random or in obedience to a confused fluidity of ideas. The Veda is perfect and beautiful in its coherence and its unity. (Page 144)








Vedas : Mind is the chief controller of all the senses, of the breaths in the Human being (inhale, exhale, life breath etc) which we see as "devraj Indra". It is the mind which is always wavering with positive and negative thoughts and yields to the self for the guidance which we see as "Swargaloka always wavering and being attacked by Demons and presided over by devtas and Indra running to Vishnu for guidance".


Shiva and Shakti : Where Shakti is the individual jiva (when perceived at human level) always trying to achieve the state of perfect knowledge i.e Shiva which we see in serials loosely as Shakti always trying to seek Shiva and how consciousness continues seeking even after death e.g Sati to Parvati where the desires are part of the nature of the body, but one has to control over those desires or detach from those desires. This Shiva is residing on the top of Mount Kailash which is metaphor of the human body itself and the super-mind, the top of Kailash which is beyond all the dualities of life, where space and time cease to exist, where past, present, future all become one, which are nothing more than the division created or perceived by the mind only.




-----------------


Some quotes from Aurobindo's : Kena and other Upanishads's


If God is everywhere, He must be in the food we eat. Not only is God the eaten, but He is the eater and eventually, says the Vedanta, when you come to the bottom fact of existence there is neither eaten or eater, but all is God. (Sri Aurobindo, Kena and Other Upanishads, Page 166)


What is the use of avoiding the word “God” and speaking always of the Supreme as “It” simply because the Sanscrit usually, — but not, be it observed, invariably — employs the neuter gender? The neuter in Sanscrit applies not only to what is inanimate but to what is beyond such terms as animate and inanimate, not only to what is below gender but to what is above gender. In English this is not the case. The use of “It” may therefore lead to far more serious misconceptions than to use the term “God” & the pronoun “He”. (Sri Aurobindo, Kena and Other Upanishads, Page 169)


“Now the Mind in dream revelleth in the glory of his imaginings. All that it hath seen it seemeth to see over again, and of all that it hath heard it repeateth the hearing; yea, all that it hath felt and thought and known in many lands and in various regions, these it liveth over again in its dreaming. What it hath seen and what it hath not seen, what it hath heard and what it hath not heard, what it hath known and what it hath not known, what is and what is not, all, all it seeth; for the Mind is the Universe.
But when he is overwhelmed with light, then Mind, the God, dreameth no longer; then in this body he hath felicity.
(Prashna Upanishad, translated by Sri Aurobindo, Pg 186 of Kena and Other Upanishads)


Therefore as all these flowing rivers move towards the sea, but when they reach the sea they are lost in it and name and form break away from them and all is called only the sea, so all the sixteen members of the silent witnessing Spirit move towards the Being, and when they have attained the Being they are lost in Him and name and form break away from them and all is called only the Being; then is He without members and immortal. Whereof this is the Scripture.
(Prashna Upanishad, translated by Sri Aurobindo, Pg 191 of Kena and Other Upanishads) { i.e the waves merging back into the nameless ocean }


Sat, Chit and Ananda are in this Highest, but He is neither Sat, Chit nor Ananda nor any combination of these. He is All and yet He is neti, neti, He is One and yet He is many. He is Parabrahman and He is Parameswara. He is Male and He is Female. He is Tat and He is Sa. This is the Higher than the Highest. He is the Purusha, the Being in whose image the world and all the Jivas are made, who pervades all and underlies all the workings of Prakriti as its reality and self. It is this Purusha that Aswalayana seeks. (Page 289, Sri Aurobindo, Kena and other Upanishads)


it is in another passage stated to have two sides, obverse & reverse, Vidya and Avidya, Science and Nescience. Nescience eternally tends to envelop Science,
Science eternally tends to displace Nescience. Avidya or Nescience is Parabrahman’s power of creating illusions or images, things which seem but are not in themselves; Vidya or Science is His power of shaking off His own imaginations and returning upon His real and eternal Self. The action and reaction of these
two great Energies doing work upon each other is the secret of Universal activity. (Page 378, KOU) { Essentially talking about Purusha and Prakriti and Maya as one of the powers or forms of Prakriti }






Like I stated, the Indian thought is neither the Vedic rituals you see these days nor the presentation of Indian TV shows. It is neither some reduction into childish terminologies like theists, atheists, religion etc.

 

[Anorion]

K. Be aware of forum rules.
No religion is not unique in claiming exclusiveity. Hindus do that too. Hare Krishnas call nobel prize winners asses and rascals. This is a total rotten scene in the west where people lose their beloved family members and friends to this bizarre cult... we have some spiritual conquests if not some military ones (back to that later). But all this argument is kid stuff. Not that srs. Not what most ppl actually blv and practice(outside these cults - now these cults may have some entirely diff benefit of their own within them). But without any burden, it still feels good to hear an echo of jai shree ram no matter where you utter it. some gods are nothing more than ideal humans. For most people, it makes no diff one way or another, whether or not we believe in god, we are gonna live our lives the exact same way. Mostly because even if we reject ritual and tradition in theory, we follow it in practice. we have absolutely no idea what else to do.

now, about some things that were not put into textbooks, don't ever get the illusion that we are innocent
there are incidents where we have massacred helpless women and children of foreign nationalities, in our own homeland! We didn't even need to go outside to do such atrocities. Nana Sahib, just look up Bibighar Massacre, we didnt read it in 8th std textbooks where it wud totally fit in

as long as someone organises Dandiya, me haz no prolem.

 

[rhitwick]

it still feels good to hear an echo of jai shree ram no matter where you utter it. some gods are nothing more than ideal humans. For most people, it makes no diff one way or another, whether or not we believe in god, we are gonna live our lives the exact same way. Mostly because even if we reject ritual and tradition in theory, we follow it in practice. we have absolutely no idea what else to do.

Again, you have posted the tip of the iceberg. You obviously have a lot of observations and theories in your mind but posted only the conclusion. Now...go detail.

@Mediator, liked your post. Always a pleasure reading your posts.

 

[rishitells]

@Mods I would request you to please inform before or after Deleting a post, or give a warning. I no longer see my first post on this page, and I can't figure out why. Same happened with my very 'clean' post in 'Girls attacked in Manglore' thread. I don't know if it's a forum bug or what. But please take this into consideration.

 

[skeletor]

'La ilaha ilallah' was the easiest way out for the socially boycotted. And again the easiest way out from our own failings is to say all the social evils existant today are because of invasions/Marxist historians and misconceptions because of missionaries etc.

It is better to be concerned with our own actions or someone else's actions rather than being concerned with a hilarious pile of text. Be concerned only with actions.

The country would do with some Indian nationalists.

Name me ANY Islamic 'Secular' country, where you can preach Hinduism, Christianity or anything.

Turkey as it stands. Socially and culturally superior to India in every way possible.