Meddling the Middle Classes

[iMav]

@iMav -
Do you think IITs and IIMs fill the 22.5% seats that are reserved? FYI, they don't.

if they dont whats the point secondly if its a known fact that they dont then why add another 27% and why not make sure that those 22% are made to 30% and made better use of

 

[The_Devil_Himself]

there is one thing no one cares to put forward,why do we need any fuking reservation at PG and higher levels?Would you like to be operated for any major surgery by a guy who got into just cuz of reservation system,leaving behind a guy 10 times better than him?Gimme a break,there is an end to everything but this reservation sh!t goes as far as Phd\higher specialization levels.All hypocrites.Bottomline is reservation helps no one.Do away with it already.

Vote for me in teh next elections.(I still need to figure out which elections I need to compete in to become PM,Not like Manmohan singh but a real one.).

 

[m-jeri]

hehehhe..yeas those idiots who support this dnt know tht when the bolkes who says 'AYE' to reservation will go to the most expensive hospital abroad or bring them here at idiot indian tax payers expense...

 

[infra_red_dude]

there is one thing no one cares to put forward,why do we need any fuking reservation at PG and higher levels?Would you like to be operated for any major surgery by a guy who got into just cuz of reservation system,leaving behind a guy 10 times better than him?Gimme a break,there is an end to everything but this reservation sh!t goes as far as Phd\higher specialization levels.All hypocrites.Bottomline is reservation helps no one.Do away with it already.

Vote for me in teh next elections.(I still need to figure out which elections I need to compete in to become PM,Not like Manmohan singh but a real one.).

You prolly hafn't read the complete this. SC has said that there would be no reservations at PG level, only upto graduation.

 

[narangz]

Sad day in the history of India.
We don't want our society to be divided by castes.

 

[drgrudge]

You prolly hafn't read the complete this. SC has said that there would be no reservations at PG level, only upto graduation.

Arjun Singh said it would be applicable to IIMs, IITs, AIIMS and IISc too. IIMs have deferred the announcement of their admission list this year.

if they dont whats the point secondly if its a known fact that they dont then why add another 27% and why not make sure that those 22% are made to 30% and made better use of

Ask them. They cite 'quality' of the students is not upto the par. They also won't fill the lapsed seat in general/other categories.

 

[slugger]

implementing the 27 % quota in IISc will be a contempt of court, unless the parl decides to include it in the 9th schedule

as for IITs and AIIMS, they conduct UG courses also, which is where the quota will be implenented

IIMs do not award degrees, the award PG diploma to the students. so mplementation of quota in IIM is being debated upon

There shall be no reduction in the number of seats available for the General category students in these institutes

The Veerappa Moili Committe that has been appointed had categoriacally stated this in no uncertain terms.

It was sum guy called Kancha Elijah who on TV said that the open category students can be thrown out to accomodate the 27.5% students if the infrastructure cannot be increased in time. Fortunately he is no position of power to make this happen

@imav
so the 2 students who burnt their midnight oil should have nothing to worry about

 

[iMav]

its a confusion and arjun singh has said that iims and iits will have to reserve seats, and the clause is in the judgement by one of the judges on the bench

 

[mediator]

Peanut brains. How come a person will still fancy the tag of "educationally backwards" even after graduation?? Poor IIMs!

Incapable government and its fellow polish1tians. Instead of improving their primary education, they thought the best wud be to hold reservations. I guess the tag of reservation will become a subject of verbal abuse in coming times..."Oh look, here comes the incapable reservation privileged boy!!". On one hand they are looting the poor farmers, charging more from us for the crop they grow and paying them less, constructing malls, buildings etc on agricultural and fertile lands, and on the other they r showcasing their pathetic dance of reservation!! On one hand they r making poor poorer and on the other dividing the society on a base which the coming generation was trying to forget. On one hand its democracy and equality to all and on the other hand its reservation.

I guess we really need a dictator to clean up the mess and slaughter the goons who r charging up their pockets and devouring this fine country to satisfy their infinite hunger for power.

 

[infra_red_dude]

I guess the tag of reservation will become a subject of verbal abuse in coming times..."Oh look, here comes the incapable reservation privileged boy!!".

Actually I'd been trying to point out the same in my posts albeit indirectly. I've seen this myself.. not once.. not twice.. not thrice.. but many times. I feel bad about it. And there was nothing I could for that guy The Govt. is only creating a divide amongst us and making them vulnerable to public humiliation/abuse.

 

[DigitalDude]

^^^
according to the above logic we should also stop sending girls to colleges cos they are being teased

so whose fault is it ? the one who abuses ? or the one who is being abused ? or the govt ?

the divide is not being created by the govt. its already there for ages. I would also like that to disappear but that is a very slow process. the present effects of reservation are not so excellent but its long term effects will be desirable. and that is precisely why SC has fixed some time period to review the policy periodically.


@mediator
your phrase "Oh look, here comes the incapable reservation privileged boy!!" seems like thats what you want to call.. not that others are calling

if one is a gentleman atleast a good student, probably they would lend out a helping hand to the fellow classmate who is coming from a not-so-privileged background* through a channel that has been provided to him by the govt , instead of indulging in name-calling.

(*though a few people game the system. but its in all the fields.)


I'm amazed by your concern for poor farmers. very kind of you. where were you when all this was happening from a very long time ago. jumping out suddenly just when the reservation policy is upheld.. a nice drama is being made out of the country's woes, using them as a weapon to argue.

I'm not surprised by your arguments though.. as I dunno whether to be angry at you or pity at your innocence thinking that a dictator would be a honest noble person who is going to save the country single handedly and set right all the wrongs the number of such dictators are less than the number of fingers in your hand


_

 

[mediator]

according to the above logic we should also stop sending girls to colleges cos they are being teased

so whose fault is it ? the one who abuses ? or the one who is being abused ? or the govt ?

the divide is not being created by the govt. its already there for ages. I would also like that to disappear but that is a very slow process. the present effects of reservation are not so excellent but its long term effects will be desirable. and that is precisely why SC has fixed some time period to review the policy periodically.

And how exactly "sending of the girls" is relevant here?? How is 'Teasing of girls' comparable here?

Yes, the divide has been there for ages and IMO was diminishing. I never knew if the guy sitting besides me during the college was any SC/ST or OBC until this reservation crap surfaced. Yes I knew he was poor and sitting and eating with poor isn't a problem for many. To me the world seems to be comprising of rich and poor and I always felt that poor can be helped if they r given financial aid. And then it started dividing into something very absurd!!

IMO, its the fault of the govt. for making us witness this mindless drama. For anti-reservation souls, they want fair treatment and equality. How will u react if a guy standing next to u gets through with very low marks on the basis of this crap?? For us competition means everything. We have seen and grown with it.
Now for pro-reservation souls. Many wanted reservation to be implemented. Please tell how a guy who doesn't even know how to walk can be made to run in the olympics?? Who are financially backwards? Who do u define SC/ST/OBC? Even the SC/ST who r now rich can go via reservation with little effort during the preparation. Many r ruling over us in in the form of power hungry beasts not even knowing their national anthem well! If u know ur ways well, then how can u be "educationally backwards"?? If u don't have the money to fill the forms, then don't u think govt shud subsidise the forms or take proper measures so that 'financially backwards" people can also sit in the entrance exams??

Private companies expect u to be highly knowledgable, so that they can acquaint u with their work easily and get u started ASAP. Do u expect them to teach u proper english first, then all the theories and practicals which u shud have done in primary education and then grant u some job if somehow u seem to be fit?? Do u even know how much loss the company will go through with all of this?

So I guess that wud be the tragic fate of the privileged souls where the term "privileged" will become an abuse and that person all his life might become a subject of mockery. The tag, "inferior", IMO might get attached to them.

A : "What rank did u get?"
B : " 9999"
A : "But the selection stopped at 2000?"
B : "I came thru reservation"
A : "Hmmm, I gotta leave now!"


The is reality, sire! Anyone wud go ballistic, if he comes to know that his rank, competition meant nuthing.

your phrase "Oh look, here comes the incapable reservation privileged boy!!" seems like thats what you want to call.. not that others are calling

U can think wateva u want. I have seen the reality and so have many others who have worked hard and studied like 20 out of 24 hrs just to find out that another person got in with privileges, approach or bribe. Its time for u to wake up to it.

@Grudge told in his posts, that it all started becoz the priests ill treated the poor. I wud make those priests run naked under the scorching sun if I had the power to do so. In this age many don't even have the time to know about cast system. Many are becoming atheists just because they think religions/personal gods bring war and unnecessary hatred. But with this vote bank politics, its all being revived. Fresh hatred and division is being poured!!

To be honest I started reading about cast systems only after this reservation topic rose! I also never knew how a 'baniya' is different from a 'brahmin', or which cast does a "Yadav" belongs to and which one does a "Kapoor"!! And if u look deeper into the original meaning of the cast system, then u will know that what today is being followed isn't a cast system at all!!!
With its orginal meaning no one is a "brahmin" or a "shudra" by birth and its not heriditary! Please google for more details.

if one is a gentleman atleast a good student, probably they would lend out a helping hand to the fellow classmate who is coming from a not-so-privileged background* through a channel that has been provided to him by the govt , instead of indulging in name-calling.

Sure everyone wud love to, if he had come via equal means and the same competition level. Why can't the government lend financial aid to his/her primary schooling? I hope u know how much importance is given to the primary skooling! It nourishes and refines the personality of a person. Don't u think so?

I wouldn't make one tiny bit of difference between the people who came via approaches, money power or reservation!! All this shud be banned.

I'm amazed by your concern for poor farmers. very kind of you. where were you when all this was happening from a very long time ago. jumping out suddenly just when the reservation policy is upheld.. a nice drama is being made out of the country's woes, using them as a weapon to argue.

I only feel sorry by the kind of low level statements and thoughts u bring in.

If u think "I jumped out suddenly.....using them as a weapon to argue", then believe me, u need to take a atleast a week vacation and spend 10 hrs a day with cold coffee in ur hand and mind at absolute peace and silence, just to read ALL MY POSTS in FIGHT CLUB in related threads!

I'm not surprised by your arguments though.. as I dunno whether to be angry at you or pity at your innocence thinking that a dictator would be a honest noble person who is going to save the country single handedly and set right all the wrongs the number of such dictators are less than the number of fingers in your hand

Are u telling our democracy is any different? The country is being ruled by a 'selected' prime minister instead of usual 'elected' prime minster pupeteered by a foreign lady, who needs hindi speeches written in English, and a dynasty supported, revered and worshipped by a bunch of goons! A dictator can both be good or bad. Ofcors our views can be different. But if u think a dictator will necessarily be evil then I too pity at ur innocence and request u to come out of ur dreamland.

 

[legolas]

^^^
the divide is not being created by the govt. its already there for ages.
_

Yes, very true, they are just exploiting it and those who benefit from it enjoy while the others try harder... mostly get disappointed.
And yes, this change will not happen over night.
And, the concept of dictatorship -> I am no way accepting to that!!

PS: this forum should incorporate a text to speech converter to read longer posts

 

[mediator]

^ Actually I was recalling my earlier debate when I mentioned "dictator". So its definitely not like Musharaf or Stalin.
So Please read that one so as to save me from repeating!

 

[infra_red_dude]

^^^
according to the above logic we should also stop sending girls to colleges cos they are being teased

You totally missed the point! mediator has explained it in the form of a small conversation about ranks and believe me I've seen it in front of my own eyes and I could do nothing but request them to leave that guy off and not trouble him.

And what mediator said happens exactly! When we are sitting in class I do not know the person sitting next to XYZ is an SC/ST/OBC. Bring in reservation and they instantly get identified and are mocked at. They are called "still backward". Why? Only coz Govt. sticks a label on them "Thru Reservation". Isn't that widening the gap?

 

[Faun]

isn't reservation an added nail to the coffin.

 

[DigitalDude]

Please before posting the next post can you guys take a few minutes* and go through these wikipedia entries
*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_in_India (updated for reflecting the recent judgement)

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action (flagged for neutrality - use common sense )

*en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_class (optional)

so that you would get a better idea of what reservation is and what it tries to achieve.


*hehe jk it takes more than an hour
_________________________________________________________

And how exactly "sending of the girls" is relevant here?? How is 'Teasing of girls' comparable here?

the motive behind that act I mean.. if you feel someone is inferior you start to bully. in that case its more a fault of the person who is bullying/abusing.

racial discrimination is much worse than ragging. just because people are from a backward class and got through reservation it doesnt mean they have to be insulted.

do the same guys have the guts to insult/bully someone who came thru management/CM/MP/MLA/VC/Dean/Industry quota ?? also the highly misused NRI quota ?

Yes, the divide has been there for ages and IMO was diminishing. I never knew if the guy sitting besides me during the college was any SC/ST or OBC until this reservation crap surfaced. Yes I knew he was poor and sitting and eating with poor isn't a problem for many. To me the world seems to be comprising of rich and poor and I always felt that poor can be helped if they r given financial aid. And then it started dividing into something very absurd!!

what is the need for one to know whether anyone is from OBC SC or ST quota ? it is not that OBC SC ST is attached to your register numbers. and even if you came to know what is the problem exactly ? just think that the guy though less privileged and not as talented as others are was given a chance considering his background and he is now able to study with you all and improve his situation. how difficult is that ? let us not show attitude.

why people think that he stole someone else's seat ? its not the case. The Indian government wants more representation of people from a varied social background to be studying in the elite institutions instead of them being just filled up to the brim with people from very privileged societies.

IMO, its the fault of the govt. for making us witness this mindless drama. For anti-reservation souls, they want fair treatment and equality. How will u react if a guy standing next to u gets through with very low marks on the basis of this crap?? For us competition means everything. We have seen and grown with it.

The govt is always at fault for a variety of reasons, but I have to accept that the reservation policy is being fully exploited by each and every politicial party to gain full mileage for their vested interests. though some good is being surfaced in this whole drama.

and the drama was properly cleaned up by the Supreme Court verdict. (referring to creamy layer, periodic re-evaluation etc)

Fair treatment and equality is a noble thing. who doesnot want it. the anti-reservation souls should realise that reservation is precisely being carried out to ensure fair treatment and equality to the less privileged and oppressed sections of the society.. unfortunately they constitute the major percentage of India's population. Only when these social and economic conditions of these people are raised to a more acceptable level, the so-called Fair Treatment, equality, unbiased policy making, can be ensured.

Now for pro-reservation souls. Many wanted reservation to be implemented. Please tell how a guy who doesn't even know how to walk can be made to run in the olympics?? Who are financially backwards? Who do u define SC/ST/OBC? Even the SC/ST who r now rich can go via reservation with little effort during the preparation. Many r ruling over us in in the form of power hungry beasts not even knowing their national anthem well! If u know ur ways well, then how can u be "educationally backwards"?? If u don't have the money to fill the forms, then don't u think govt shud subsidise the forms or take proper measures so that 'financially backwards" people can also sit in the entrance exams??

"doesn't even know how to walk can be made to run in the olympics??"
can we call it an exaggeration?? running in the olympics is the pinnacle for an athlete. if I have to potray in real life, what you are saying in the above sentence, it will be like this "randomly selecting a KG school student and making him the CEO of a mega corp" let us refrain from making unnecessary exaggerations and come to reality.

SC/STs situation cannot be explained in very short sentences. I clearly dunno how to speak about this situation prudently.

and for the rest of the statements in the above quote this is my reaction

Private companies expect u to be highly knowledgable, so that they can acquaint u with their work easily and get u started ASAP. Do u expect them to teach u proper english first, then all the theories and practicals which u shud have done in primary education and then grant u some job if somehow u seem to be fit?? Do u even know how much loss the company will go through with all of this?

as I said in my above statement let us not exaggerate plz. private companies teach you nought. its the employee who learns. I know many reserved class students who are working in a variety of companies performing very well. these companies dont give any special preference to them while recruiting. they also go through the common pool. so ineffect reservation has won here. those underprivileged students got in to my campus through reservation, and got out through a common system the private companies follow

I have even seen these students get placed in Dream companies, who are ruthless in the selection processes.

and No I dont know how much loss the company goes through.. but I know how those companies wring out the last drop of work from you before paying.
maybe one day if I start a company I will know better

So I guess that wud be the tragic fate of the privileged souls where the term "privileged" will become an abuse and that person all his life might become a subject of mockery. The tag, "inferior", IMO might get attached to them.

A : "What rank did u get?"
B : " 9999"
A : "But the selection stopped at 2000?"
B : "I came thru reservation"
A : "Hmmm, I gotta leave now!"


The is reality, sire! Anyone wud go ballistic, if he comes to know that his rank, competition meant nuthing.

hmm this 'subject of mocery', 'target for abuse', 'inferiority tag', etc are just scare terms and dont carry much weightage. Imagine in a class, will half of them gonna be playing a game of mocking the other half ??

your dialogue above maybe suitable for a comic strip

A : "What rank did u get?"
B : " 9999"
A : "But the selection stopped at 2000?"
B : "I came thru reservation"
A : "Hmmm, I gotta leave now!"
B : "bb" *who cares*

and then it is understandable that people would go ballistic once they know they have lost the chance. but they have to realise this is the law and theres a big picture behind it. every year lakhs of people go ballistic after CAT results (I'm one of them ) so what can be done

U can think wateva u want. I have seen the reality and so have many others who have worked hard and studied like 20 out of 24 hrs just to find out that another person got in with privileges, approach or bribe. Its time for u to wake up to it.

I'm not thinking whatever I want. studying in a govt engg coll in chennai I have had pretty good exposure to the reservation issues and spent a lot of time with all kinds of friends but never in my coll life we had this kind of selective treatment of friends cos of reservation. I have also held a lot of responsibilities.

and you never disappoint me in the exaggeration dept. getting in with approach or bribe is another serious issue. let us not digress. but the guy who got in thru reservation probably spent more time than you and worked harder but ended up with less cos he is not as smart as you are and/or do not have the kind of exposure that a lot of us enjoy.

Sure everyone wud love to, if he had come via equal means and the same competition level. Why can't the government lend financial aid to his/her primary schooling? I hope u know how much importance is given to the primary skooling! It nourishes and refines the personality of a person. Don't u think so?

I wouldn't make one tiny bit of difference between the people who came via approaches, money power or reservation!! All this shud be banned.

'equal means' depends on a various factors for such a diverse country like India. as I have said just a few statements above, educational background, the kind of exposure, family background, networking among the relatives, coupled with financial and social status makes a lot of difference when you are comparing with people who have a lot less/Nil of any of the above.

I know how important is primary schooling No doubt. but the cost of spending to aid the poor in primary schools is a very huge one and the sheer number of beneficiaries add to the complexity.

yes giving importance to college level education than to primary level is unbalanced policy.. but as time progresses and India develops it is bound to happen just like this 60000cr loan waiver (motives behind that may be different but it is commendable)

there IS a world of difference between people who get through via money power/influence etc and people who come via reservation. you have to understand that. the former is FAR serious issue but as I said earlier that totally different let us open a new FC thread for it

I only feel sorry by the kind of low level statements and thoughts u bring in.

If u think "I jumped out suddenly.....using them as a weapon to argue", then believe me, u need to take a atleast a week vacation and spend 10 hrs a day with cold coffee in ur hand and mind at absolute peace and silence, just to read ALL MY POSTS in FIGHT CLUB in related threads!

I sincerely apologise for this and retract my statements. As I'm not the one to frequent the FC, I was unaware

Are u telling our democracy is any different? The country is being ruled by a 'selected' prime minister instead of usual 'elected' prime minster pupeteered by a foreign lady, who needs hindi speeches written in English, and a dynasty supported, revered and worshipped by a bunch of goons! A dictator can both be good or bad. Ofcors our views can be different. But if u think a dictator will necessarily be evil then I too pity at ur innocence and request u to come out of ur dreamland.

In democracy we have a constitution by which govt functions. In dictatorship whatever the dictator says is the constitution . Given the present world scenario if you think that there are bound to be benevolent dictators ready for a country like India, then Its not me who is in the dreamland.

You totally missed the point! mediator has explained it in the form of a small conversation about ranks and believe me I've seen it in front of my own eyes and I could do nothing but request them to leave that guy off and not trouble him.

And what mediator said happens exactly! When we are sitting in class I do not know the person sitting next to XYZ is an SC/ST/OBC. Bring in reservation and they instantly get identified and are mocked at. They are called "still backward". Why? Only coz Govt. sticks a label on them "Thru Reservation". Isn't that widening the gap?

Nope I did not. I clearly understand what you guys mean. But I'm just asking why do we show such an indifferent attitude to students who qualify through reservation. refer to my discussions above

"Identifying and mocking" I will suggest an amendment to the anti-ragging act to include provisions for punishing students in college who are bullying fellow students by mocking them for qualifying through reservation


PHEW! could have written a blog post or two

@legolas bro
you don't want any text to speech converter.. really.. I have tried it and it sucks


p.s. a few places I might be appearing to be rude but am not. I intended to use smileys but I cant use much

_

 

[eggman]

calling this quota implementation unjustified would be the understatement of independent INDIA. they said ours was a fractured democracy, now its actually disabled. its one of those cases where the system you live in goes one step ahead of you and screws you like hell! no constitution in any country of the world can justify replacing economic subsidy with anti-merit reservations. i have never felt so violated.

 

[..:: Free Radical ::..]

I was working with Y4E. I went to the Mandal II hunger strikes too.
I put my hopes in SC. We could only do so much.

We have an impotent leadership being held to ransom by an incompetent majority. We won't make it far.

Nah, I'll make my own road with my blood and sweat and toil.

Goodbye India. This is where we part ways.

 

[eggman]

I hope Mandal III never gets implimented!!