Gibbon is still an Ape

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iMav

The Devil's Advocate
Yup im talking about Ubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon ...

First i would like to thank the OSS members here who with a heavy heart decided to help me to setup my ubuntu so thanx a lot for ur help guys and i hope u will continue to help me however i think ubuntu has stolen a lot of thunder and a lot of Vista Should Worry courtesy Gibbon blogs and posts have been floating around so i think i have the right to also write my experience and say what i feel about gutsy gibbon and its "threat" to vista and windows OSs :) soplease read it and tell me if im wrong i will be more than glad to change if im wrong :p

First Impressions:

Linux has improved over the years :p and improved to a great extent they have finally realized that a good GUI is as necessary as security and not all can use command lines for everything they want to do for whatever reasons - some dont know how to and some simply feel its a waste of time (i fall in both categories)

The Goods:

1. Synaptic Manager: I liked the way it searches and installs the library reducing my work of searching and using terminal for every new library i want


2. Compiz Fusion: Its been compared to Vista's Aero and has been said everywhere that aero sucks so much resources and does nothing where as Compiz can do so much the truth is COmpiz is pretty much like Windows FX and is only eye candy - use it to impress ur Girl-Friends and they will go all O ur a genious with Comps and trust me they will say u are Indian Bill Gates :D also u can use it to make ur siblings happy show them some good magic; but most of compiz features also suck out ur comp resources and are actually of no productive use - using these features u will hardly be able to use ur OS blur effects; slow motion all these are of no practical use where as aero is a simple eye candy feature which does not affect or comes in the way of ur work - it gives u a good looking OS and lets u work

3. Office Inbuilt: Yup though its not as good as some other packages available it is still better to have a package than having a trial or none at all, though iv read on this forum itself a member had problems when he created a Open Office ppt and viewed it in Powerpoint - big problems and that too just before his presentation

4. Cant think of anymore

The Bads:

1. A not at all Comparable to Windows out-of-the-box experience: No mp3 for whatever reason; a music player is bundled but mp3 plugins are downloaded for the 'supposed' video player

2. Internet Conx is a Must: If u dont have a net conx u can pretty much do nothing on ur box - no plugins no video no music which i really find funny considering the fact that people have labelled this as the Vista killer OS, u need to download so many libraries; dependencies so much just to make sure that it works

3. User Security: When Vista was launched people cursed its User security option which made u enter ur password before doing certain system specific taks also known as UAC - i was surprised rather more than surprised to find it bugging me in Ubuntu (the same thing is there in OS X Tiger also) - so dont see any reason why VIsta's UAC was so much of a stupid feature even though it gave u the option of dis-abling it unlike ubuntu and tiger

4. Drivers Support: Now let me be clear i dont blame Ubuntu developers for this at all but when u compare urself to something like windows this plays a major role - huge lack of driver support and even though drivers are sometimes avialable there are weird problems while installing it

5. No BSODs/Crash Reason: Now every1 curses bsods calling them stupid MS flaws but for some reason if u come to think about getting a BSOD is much better than having ur machine frozen and u actually not knowing that it has frozen and what caused it to freeze
 

drgrudge

Another Brick in the Wall
I also had a similar experience with my PC. Help me run Gutsy Gibbon in my PC (*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71135). I must say that the Community here is awesome.


I tried various things in my 8 yr old PC and nothing seemed to work. I tried and lot and gave up in the end. "Tried a lot and did all I could. Turned out like the fox that couldn't reach the vine plant and gave up thinking it might be sour."

Now I'm planned to see what's the hype around Ubuntu in my laptop, but then I love OS X Tiger that I didn't install Linux or Windows in my Mac. They say Leopard is better than Tiger and I like Tiger itself very much! :D

My Mac does all I want, then why would I need to install other OS, just for the heck of seeing what's the fuss around?

iMav said:
i was surprised rather more than surprised to find it bugging me in Ubuntu (the same thing is there in OS X Tiger also) - so dont see any reason why VIsta's UAC was so much of a stupid feature even though it gave u the option of dis-abling it unlike ubuntu and tiger
I find that way better than what we have in Windows.
1. In Windows I'll have to type the password before I login. In OS X, no need for that. For most of the Admin related tasks, it'll ask Password.
2. What if you log on to Admin account and then you go off the PC and then someone does stuffs on your PC?


One thing that I want to tell: OS X pwns Aero in Windows Vista or Compiz Fusion in Linux any day. :twisted:
 

FilledVoid

Who stole my Alpaca!
Great to hear your experiences. The OSS members here have helped me more times than I have cared to count. I was a Windows user (started from DOS to XP) until recently migrated to Ubuntu and I find the experience so far pretty good. Since we are talking about your install lets go into it a bit better.

4. Cant think of anymore

I could think of quite a few but posting that would make my post from the view of a staunch Linux Advocate. Lets take a look at your problems.

1. A not at all Comparable to Windows out-of-the-box experience: No mp3 for whatever reason; a music player is bundled but mp3 plugins are downloaded for the 'supposed' video player

Please take a look at the following. This should explain more than enough Why mp3 support isn't included by default

Most of these drivers are “restricted” because they are not available under a completely Free licence.

In short GNU/Linux and other distro try to follow rule:

1. If something is proprietary, it cannot be included in Linux
2. If it violates United States federal law (most popular distros are manufactured in USA), it cannot be included in Linux
3. Patent-encumbered software etc

The patent holder is not ready to give an unrestricted patent grant, as required by the GPL license. To get mp3 support for your distribution you must use third party repositories (or vendor site) to download application.
Source: *www.cyberciti.biz/tips/why-linux-dont-support-mp3-and-selected-wifi-cards-out-of-the-box.html

As far as I recall unless you are a pirate you paid for the software unlike Ubuntu you got it from your friend or downloaded it or used ship-it or whatever methods necessary.

Internet Conx is a Must: If u dont have a net conx u can pretty much do nothing on ur box - no plugins no video no music which i really find funny considering the fact that people have labelled this as the Vista killer OS, u need to download so many libraries; dependencies so much just to make sure that it works

Only if you want to use software which is not included or installed by default on your computer then yes you need to install it. If you have the DVD install then you could drastically reduce the amount you need to install. Furthermore you dont need to select a dependency. So far I have only had to select the main program from the menu and the dependencies get selected automatically. Most programs in Windows use certain dlls as well as Frameworks as well so I definitely see that Linux having more dependencies argument is not valid at all. Most of their sizes usually range from 10 KB to 500 KB anyway.

3. User Security: When Vista was launched people cursed its User security option which made u enter ur password before doing certain system specific taks also known as UAC - i was surprised rather more than surprised to find it bugging me in Ubuntu (the same thing is there in OS X Tiger also) - so dont see any reason why VIsta's UAC was so much of a stupid feature even though it gave u the option of dis-abling it unlike ubuntu and tiger

Even with UAC Microsoft has done a horrible job of securing its new Operating system. Not to mention I wonder where Microsoft suddenly got the idea of securing system tasks. Id rather have my system a bit secure than not at all.

4. Drivers Support: Now let me be clear i dont blame Ubuntu developers for this at all but when u compare urself to something like windows this plays a major role - huge lack of driver support and even though drivers are sometimes avialable there are weird problems while installing it

I definitely agree with this. Hardware developers don't seem to enjoy providing software which would enable their devices in Linux. However I didn't have to install a single driver for my Ubuntu install. That is everything was recognized as is. Maybe because of the devices I use than yours.

5. No BSODs/Crash Reason: Now every1 curses bsods calling them stupid MS flaws but for some reason if u come to think about getting a BSOD is much better than having ur machine frozen and u actually not knowing that it has frozen and what caused it to freeze

BSODS dont always happen cause of a certain reason. Search google or hell check this forum Im pretty sure that there are numerous instances where the common tech support answer was given "Reinstall......." . Linux have its share of problems as well. Being in tech support Ive seen my share of nasty WIndow Problems so please don't say that there are less bugs in WIndows or MS Software....
Anyway this all is just my humble opinion.

Before I end I just couldn't resist answering this.
however i think ubuntu has stolen a lot of thunder and a lot of Vista

Microsoft built its company on products based on others ideas. Maybe you should check more of that before you just blatantly post it. but wait , I guess thats the norm considering that it is on the "Fight Club" .

If you seriously wanted to post your reviews and not start Random thread 328 about OS1 vs OS2 you could have done it in the review thread any one of the others. Nonetheless get the point.

You like Windows better whooopie ..... So stop beating the dead horse.
 
OP
iMav

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
the reason i posted here was based on my experience any such review thread ends up getting locked and members banned however the fight club has some relaxation by the mods and admins and hence it has been posted here ;)

as far as ur post: i cant play mp3s without having a net conx when i install ubuntu ;) can u :?:
 

FilledVoid

Who stole my Alpaca!
as far as ur post: i cant play mp3s without having a net conx when i install ubuntu can u?

I doubt I downloaded anythig for MP3 but I did only started to play it after I installed all the programs I needed.

I don't see why a person would be banned cause of a review on Gutsy Gibbon as long as the conversation is maintained in a civilized manner.
 
OP
iMav

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
exx_2000 said:
I don't see why a person would be banned cause of a review on Gutsy Gibbon as long as the conversation is maintained in a civilized manner.
well lets just say that this is the best section to post reviews of OSs on thinkdigit ... it just makes sure that the thread isnt locked and no 1 is banned ;) trust me :)

and mp3s i can assure u out-of -the-box they dont work ;)
 

Faun

Wahahaha~!
Staff member
iMav said:
the reason i posted here was based on my experience any such review thread ends up getting locked and members banned however the fight club has some relaxation by the mods and admins and hence it has been posted here ;)

as far as ur post: i cant play mp3s without having a net conx when i install ubuntu ;) can u :?:
U expect to play mp3 ?
Thats not under open source circle, why dont u try sabayon if u only wanted to play damn mp3 format in linux or else get an ubuntu DVD(contains all goodies, no need for net conn).

70% effects in compiz-fusion are for enhancing user interaction and productiviy. Rest 30% are for show off to noobs.

U guys will never see the silver line. Better luck with ur confined workspaces.
 

FilledVoid

Who stole my Alpaca!
You do know that, thats ike saying Windows Vista doesnt play random music file out of box and I dont have an internet connection. With Windows you could possibly get away with this cause you have CDs and DVDs of magazines.
 
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iMav

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
T159 said:
70% effects in compiz-fusion are for enhancing user interaction and productiviy. Rest 30% are for show off to noobs.
i actually found the ratio to be other way round :? besides mp3s is just 1 of the things; 1 thing that i forgot to post is the boot time from the time of os selection to login screen: ubuntu for me is the slowest with os x being the fastest ;) its really slow
 

FilledVoid

Who stole my Alpaca!
i forgot to post is the boot time from the time of os selection to login screen: ubuntu for me is the slowest with os x being the fastest its really slow

I can prove otherwise if you come to #Digit sometime. Using a Windows system and a Ubuntu system. but then again I dont use Vista's boot loader.
 

Faun

Wahahaha~!
Staff member
iMav said:
i actually found the ratio to be other way round :? besides mp3s is just 1 of the things; 1 thing that i forgot to post is the boot time from the time of os selection to login screen: ubuntu for me is the slowest with os x being the fastest ;) its really slow
Mine boots in less than 30 secs.

lol...i back off,
 

Faun

Wahahaha~!
Staff member
iMav said:
u want i can give u a vdo :) its a lot more than 30 for me
no one wants the proof here, shall i gain something out of it, No.

Use the OS which u prefer most, just a matter of personal choice.
 

infra_red_dude

Wire muncher!
Lolz.. from your first post I can see only the first point: Synaptic as the good. Rest of the "good"s are posted as "bad"s!!! :D

I agree with you on Driver support. Companies like Novell, Canonical etc. should put some weight on hardware manufacturers to release OSS drivers.

Second thing, I couldn't understand the comparison between Compiz and Aero! You say Compiz is Aero + x + y + z. Then you say x,y,z is useless and so Aero is better?!!! (Or mebbe I got it worng?) Compiz does everything Aero does and more with less resources. Whatever you don't want can be turned off. I'm confused as to what you wanna say....

UAC is a badly twisted and horribly implemented form of "sudo". Unix and derivatives ask for password only for admin. related tasks not like Vista which asks your "permission" when you move your mouse!! :D (Hehe.. I know its a bit exaggerated but UAC is just like that!)

Internet connection is a must: Only if you use "restricted" software and codecs or if you don't haf the DVD version or a distro like Mint!

How can you compare a "700MB" Ubuntu install to a full blown "2.53GB" Vista install?

IMHO these are the "bads" (not of any specific distro but a Linux system as a whole)

1) As I said companies like Novell (who make desktop oriented distros like SLED) are not doing enough to get the hardware manufacturers release Linux drivers.

2) No standard messenger service with Voice and Cam support (I know Gyach supports it but it has a long way to go)

3) Better out of box font support

4) More user friendly Bluetooth configuration

5) Better interface for OpenOffice (We don't want more features but improve the interface)

Can you think of any other "real" bad???
 

Faun

Wahahaha~!
Staff member
infra_red_dude said:
Lolz.. from your first post I can see only the first point: Synaptic as the good. Rest of the "good"s are posted as "bad"s!!! :D

I agree with you on Driver support. Companies like Novell, Canonical etc. should put some weight on hardware manufacturers to release OSS drivers.

Second thing, I couldn't understand the comparison between Compiz and Aero! You say Compiz is Aero + x + y + z. Then you say x,y,z is useless and so Aero is better?!!! (Or mebbe I got it worng?) Compiz does everything Aero does and more with less resources. Whatever you don't want can be turned off. I'm confused as to what you wanna say....

UAC is a badly twisted and horribly implemented form of "sudo". Unix and derivatives ask for password only for admin. related tasks not like Vista which asks your "permission" when you move your mouse!! :D (Hehe.. I know its a bit exaggerated but UAC is just like that!)

Internet connection is a must: Only if you use "restricted" software and codecs or if you don't haf the DVD version or a distro like Mint!

How can you compare a "700MB" Ubuntu install to a full blown "2.53GB" Vista install?

IMHO these are the "bads" (not of any specific distro but a Linux system as a whole)

1) As I said companies like Novell (who make desktop oriented distros like SLED) are not doing enough to get the hardware manufacturers release Linux drivers.

2) No standard messenger service with Voice and Cam support (I know Gyach supports it but it has a long way to go)

3) Better out of box font support

4) More user friendly Bluetooth configuration

5) Better interface for OpenOffice (We don't want more features but improve the interface)

Can you think of any other "real" bad???
nicely explained + and - points
 

drgrudge

Another Brick in the Wall
Why is there a fuss for the MP3 playing capabilities? I would like to know if Vista can play XViD (or some other codecs) out of the box?


Regarding relaxing rules in this section. That's a myth. I'll close this thread or ban any user, if things gets out of hand in fight club as well. :)
 
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iMav

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
drgrudge said:
Why is there a fuss for the MP3 playing capabilities? I would like to know if Vista can play XViD (or some other codecs) out of the box?
abey woh koi os nahi chala sakta ... os x and windows have mp3 playback and hence i kept it to mp3 in my post ...

and for relaxed rules in fight club:

an excerpt from my discussion with raaabo when i was banned

raaabo said:
It's about you looking to start arguements in forums other than fight club,
now what do u make of this statement :rolleyes:
 

drgrudge

Another Brick in the Wall
iMav said:
abey woh koi os nahi chala sakta ... os x and windows have mp3 playback and hence i kept it to mp3 in my post ...

and for relaxed rules in fight club:

an excerpt from my discussion with raaabo when i was banned

now what do u make of this statement :rolleyes:
Most of the users will want to play XViD as well and not restrict to MP3 alone. Just because they don't have a net connection, it might not mean they won't look for ways to play the files or term it as OS's limitation.


I don't know in what context Raaabo posted that. Also allowing arguments doesn't mean that rules are not in place. Whatever be the case, what I said will hold true. :)
 
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iMav

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
grudgy please i dont want any 1 banned ... we all know what happens when an OS is reviewed ... :)
 

praka123

left this forum longback
I think imav wants OS X,Ubuntu and all other Operating systems in the world to be like Windows :lol: dude!first unlearn ur windows ways.may be i can help u if u read below link:
*linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
Linux is NOT Windows!
 
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