Browser War - Take your pick

[gxsaurav]

Somebody ones said that other may innovate but it is MS who knows how to make it easy to use & make money out of it.

If FOSS is so good then Y isn't the server division of Red hat, novell & ubuntu more rich then windows server division despite of being used more then windows in servers.

 

[praka123]

@infra: I was a nice guy. not any more .First CTC by 2 M$ boys.then let me see!
banned or not ,is not the matter.when persons lost their sanity by irritating others(FOSS supporters esp) , then we too have to voice. no worries.I can stop here.even I apologized.but the lunatics are strict that as if their dog funded them a booze.

 

[Faun]

^^how come the money crept in.

lol...richness is not by money all the time

 

[gxsaurav]

@infra

I just came back to delhi today, was getting bored so doing timepass & proving him wrong

 

[praka123]

yeah ,it is timepass for you ? to prove sane things wrong.
I am doing my best to let winblow$ users to know how they are inside a vendor-lock(M$).
freedom is more important.you can earn money.but there is something called ethics.

Let a FOSS based software world come!

 

[kumarmohit]

WTH voted for Flock?

Its just Firefox with some unwanted social networking bloat!

@ Praka, Calm down, dude!
I do not agree with your definition of free coz I think that freedom only comes when something is public domain. I do not try to force my belief down the neck of other people. Nor do I think distorting names is going to prove anything. I put it in my siggy and leave at that.

Calm down and look around yourself! The world is a beautiful place. FOSS people breath the same air that MS employees, Gates and Ballmer breath. They drink the same water. IE and FFx teams collaborate on standards. The scenario is a lot better than what is posted in blogs by fanboys and all!

 

[infra_red_dude]

I've reported both your posts (GX and Prakash)... and would SINCERELY REQUEST THE MODS TO BAN BOTH OF YOU!

MS - FOSS wars were once interesting topic to debate, discuss, argue and fight. But not any more... Just become an overdose.. WHEN SOMETHING BECOMES TOO MUCH YOU FEEL LIKE PUKING... Everything is good only till a certain limit... don't cross that.. frankly there is nothing fancy is MS - FOSS wars anymore... people fighting are fools.. bloody fools... sheesh.. I'm ashamed of being a part of such forums...

 

[RCuber]

STOP THE WAR

 

[Indyan]

Please, can we get back to the topic and discuss browsers?

only firefox will have to bear the consequences
why don't people at opera do this, is someone paying them to hold on or there is some code break to occur when doing this

anything thats community driven survives even after developers stop supporting it

I agree. Its something I have been championing for a long time.
I have brought this issue up many times in forums, blogs and irc chats.
Somehow they have a mindset that its going to compromise with the security. Even many old time opera users oppose it on the grounds that its going to make Opera Fx(in a bad sense - with memory leaks etc).
Some opera employees like Tim Altman are in favour of it, but a lot of them are not. And I dont think it would be implemented anytime soon (I think JVT had said something to this effect).


Opera is my primary browser but alongside it a window of fx is always open. I use Opera because I love it's interface. Comparatively I find Fx's interface clunky and a speed breaker.

Opera sued MS in terms of monopoly & non-standard compliency, but they didn't sue Apple for Safari's monopoly, Y?

Firefox is doing well but they didn't sue MS, Y?

MS is making IE8 Standard complient, still opera sued them, Y?

I am quoting Haavard (Opera employee)

One thing that has surprised me is the seemingly one-sided focus on one of the two proposed remedies, namely the unbundling of MSIE. People seem to forget about the second proposed remedy - forcing Microsoft to adhere to Web standards, which is even more important in my opinion. The first is just a way to prevent Microsoft from having the power to continue its practices. Both are about giving people an actual choice...

The complaint doesn't mean that Windows must be stripped of all browsers. What matters is that there is actual choice.

Currently, Microsoft is bundling their browser with the dominant desktop operating system. This would not have been a problem in itself if Microsoft did not actively undermine open standards.(My insert - explains why Apple was not sued) Basically, Microsoft's position in the browser market allows it to lock people to their proprietary technologies.

With this two-pronged approach, Microsoft would be forced to adhere to standards, and at the same time they would not be as well equipped to repeat their actions in the future because their browser would no longer be as dominant.


Q: But Opera is bundled on various devices. Doesn't that make Opera Software a hypocrite?

A: Bundling software in itself is not the problem. The problem with Internet Explorer is that Microsoft has used its strong position in the market to stifle competition.

Q: But Apple bundles Safari/Ubuntu bundles Firefox, etc.?

A: See above. Bundling in itself is not a problem, but it becomes a problem when a dominant player in the market uses bundling in combination with other tactics to prevent others from competing in the market.

Please note that Safari and Firefox are very good at standards compliance. If they didn't have to deal with MSIE compatibility, they (and Opera) could have spent even more time on improving their standards support.

Related
Microsoft sabotaging CSS too?
Microsoft stiffling ECMAScript in order to prevent competition
Btw, this lawsuite may have already helped the web. I suspect that it did influence MS' decision to use the standards compliant engine as default in IE8.

 

[chandru.in]

U abuse MS & Bill Gates when they r the only reason U R able to work on a 20K PC at home.

When on earth will u realize the reality. Tell me one contribution which came from Microsoft for the first time and is the major reason for the wide spreading of PCs. The real reason PCs gained market is the hardware shrunk and became more powerful at the same time.

Now mobiles are gaining popularity for the same reason. Thank God there is no monopoly there or else ppl 5 years down the lane will call company X as the reason for mobiles' uptake and hail its founder as the God.

 

[The_Devil_Himself]

FF3 rules!

I like the way it uses my system's memory in high amounts which isn't used otherwise,thats value for money spent on the memory sticks.
On a serious note:FF3 is amazingly fast,and its the extensions which really puts it way ahead of opera,no third browser is anywhere near them.safari is a poor excuse on the name of a browser,IE-lets just not talk about it.Another reason-opera doesn't shows digit forums correctly with images off for me,.

 

[ThinkFree]

U abuse MS & Bill Gates when they r the only reason U R able to work on a 20K PC at home.

If MS hadn't been there, the PC would have costed Rs.16000 only as if a user buy genuine copy of Windows, he has to shell out at least Rs. 3000

 

[MetalheadGautham]

@Prakash

Did Microsoft kicked U out of campus selection when U were in collage? I mean, I don't find any other reason for U to get so angry . Hack, U R a FOSS Terrorist & U don't even contribute to FOSS whose songs U sing.

U like Piracy
U hate North Indians
U hate hindi
U abuse MS & Bill Gates when they r the only reason U R able to work on a 20K PC at home.
U R an Indian but hate other Indians

Why should we even allow U on this forum?

Several good points there.

But when it comes to Bill Gates, HE and HE ALONE is the reason behind a PC, not MS. It was Billy's clever thinking. MS now is not at all as inspirational and good as it was once upon a time. MS-Ballmer sucks.

But I must agree, using the language prakash uses makes the reading quite difficult. And a bit annoying, because I HATE spelling mistakes from someone other than me.

I guess only you so worried about his unban . Moreover this is fight club and he regret for his post already.

Opera sued MS in terms of monopoly & non-standard compliency, but they didn't sue Apple for Safari's monopoly, Y?

Firefox is doing well but they didn't sue MS, Y?

MS is making IE8 Standard complient, still opera sued them, Y?

The day U give proper logical answers to these, I will agree that MS is a monopoly, despite of the fact that Windows platform is full of 3rd party apps

@prakash

I m one of the most senior member here but even I M having enough. I don't like slang language but now U R provoking me to use Hindi abuses (cos U won't understand them )

your posts & love for FOSS is justified only if U contribute to FOSS which U don't. Hack, even zeeshan likes MS but still he contributed to FOSS by porting gigasmilies to Linux. What have U done for FOSS other then degrading the status of FOSS as those who r jealous of MS & can't stand Windows being so popular

Somebody ones said that other may innovate but it is MS who knows how to make it easy to use & make money out of it.

If FOSS is so good then Y isn't the server division of Red hat, novell & ubuntu more rich then windows server division despite of being used more then windows in servers.

Keep that part out. This is not the right place to discuss about revenue generated by lies, cheating. blackmailing and bribing. MS DOES have a history.

As for the ease of use part, well ease of use is a RELATIVE TERM. Linux is made keeping particular people in mind, and they are a hell lot satisfied. Today, even the other population can be satisfied from linux thanks to the hard work of Red Hat, Novell and Canonical. But it takes time to get market share if you want to do it without spending a lot on advertisements and marketing. Linux folks prefer spending money over development and productive work rather than advertisements, which are basically a set of lies you tell to attract people. Ads are for MS, Tata, Sony, etc.

I've reported both your posts (GX and Prakash)... and would SINCERELY REQUEST THE MODS TO BAN BOTH OF YOU!

MS - FOSS wars were once interesting topic to debate, discuss, argue and fight. But not any more... Just become an overdose.. WHEN SOMETHING BECOMES TOO MUCH YOU FEEL LIKE PUKING... Everything is good only till a certain limit... don't cross that.. frankly there is nothing fancy is MS - FOSS wars anymore... people fighting are fools.. bloody fools... sheesh.. I'm ashamed of being a part of such forums...

+1

All this trash talking by both guys makes little sense. I have honestly NO idea why anyone would bother with these wars, when it makes little or NO DIFFERENCE to the outside world. Perhaps if they were in an important dicision making body in the government, their views may be of a lot of significance. But you have two ORDINARY GUYS here. Whats the point then of arguing ?

 

[iMav]

@Indyan: Everyone knows that it was within weeks of MS announcing that IE 8 is Acid Test compatible & going to adhere to "web standards" that Opera filed the case. And let's be honest man, we both know for a fact that the only reason Opera sued MS was because it has more market share, it did not sue Firefox even though Firefox is a default on most Linux Distros, if they were to sue FF they would have destroyed any good will they had & suing Apple for Safari makes no difference what soever to their actual purpose of gaining more eye balls and making sure that Windows gets more and more crippled.

@infra: I did not provoke him, I give a damn about him, he is the one who chooses to refer to us as gays & morons. He is the one who uses abusive language in all his post, fcuk this that, moron, gay, sh!t and what not. Some mod bans him but then he is un-banned again. What does he do once un-banned, back to abusing other members by calling them morons, idiots, using the same abusive language.

 

[chandru.in]

It is nice to see that even staunch MS fans can't argue about any MS innovation with authentic proof.

Nudge, nudge! This is Fight Club after all!!

 

[Indyan]

And let's be honest man, we both know for a fact that the only reason Opera sued MS was because it has more market share

Read, what Haavard stated. MS was sued because it had a massive market share and it was creating problems.
Fx and Safari didnt create any problems, because first of all they are very good interms of adhering to standards.
And even if they didnt adhere to standards they dont have a dominant market share - so they wouldnt have been any question of abusing their position.
With power comes responsibility.

 

[iMav]

And MS was taking steps towards being responsible. IE 7 much better in rendering sites than IE 6, IE 8 it was announced before the case that IE 8 passes Acid Test and adheres to "standards" all of this was public knowledge, yet they went and sued them.

They want to sue, then they say we don't want Windows to be shipped without IE but we want a version without IE that is at a lesser cost.

I mean cmon dude, it is a company can't it sell their product. Windows without IE, Windows without WMP. What rubbish is this? What standards were when Real sud MS for WMP, nothing it was just to get eye balls and publicity. That is what Opera is trying to do.

Honda can't sell it's car with bridgestone tires? Makes sense? I can't sell my Gas detectors with my own sensors? Makes any sens?

 

[infra_red_dude]

And MS was taking steps towards being responsible. IE 7 much better in rendering sites than IE 6, IE 8 it was announced before the case that IE 8 passes Acid Test and adheres to "standards" all of this was public knowledge, yet they went and sued them.

They want to sue, then they say we don't want Windows to be shipped without IE but we want a version without IE that is at a lesser cost.

I mean cmon dude, it is a company can't it sell their product. Windows without IE, Windows without WMP. What rubbish is this? What standards were when Real sud MS for WMP, nothing it was just to get eye balls and publicity. That is what Opera is trying to do.

Honda can't sell it's car with bridgestone tires? Makes sense? I can't sell my Gas detectors with my own sensors? Makes any sens?

Its not about IE7 being better in rendering sites than IE6. Its about IE7 being able to render sites which follow the W3 standard.

If you read what Pallab posted.. you can actually relate this to Peter Parker! He had a large "market share" if he starts abusing his powers to make things go his way isn't it unfair? For that matter, a person who is relatively less dominant can't demand anything. Its about taking advantage of their market share to make people code specifically for IE even when standards exist. This is wrong. And afaik, Opera sued MS when it had only announced that IE8 will be more standards-compliant, not let ppl test themselves. I maybe wrong here; correct me if I am.

Lets consider an analogous hypothetical incident. Everyone know Ubuntu is the most widely used distro. Tomorrow if Ubuntu forces the kernel developers to change something in the kernel according to their wish and then demand that all other distros should adopt it, then its wrong.. I hope you get my point.

 

[iMav]

afaik, Opera sued MS when it had only announced that IE8 will be more standards-compliant, not let ppl test themselves. I maybe wrong here; correct me if I am.

Beta 1 was released very soon after that for all the "ppl" to test it themselves.

What makes this whole thing interesting is the fact that Firefox did not choose to sue MS, wonder why? 'coz they have enough users and also have the distros bundling Firefox. Opera, no. Opera had no choice, MS was an easy target. Sue firefox the whole internet will fall on you, because it is "open source". Opera was no where, it could not sue Firefox, it had to sue MS before IE 8 beta was out, otherwise they would lose the smallest bit of ray of hope that would give them some support, ie. IE's incomplete adherance to "web standards". That is the whole problem. Heck, Apple came out with Safari for WIndows, they even cheekily bundled it with iTunes uypdate. They could have sued MS for IE. They did not, 'coz Safari has it's share of OS X users. It was Opera who was no where on any of the platforms, even though it is as good as members here claim it tobe. It was no where in terms of usage. MS was an easy target, they were being investigated, so the easiest and safest solution that will get you good will and some support - Sue MS.

 

[praka123]

not only Internet exploder , M$ windows itself is a monopoly.this monopoly forced hardware vendors to give drivers only for window$ ,without considering better Operating Systems like GNU/Linux ,mac etc.

Luckily , with Vi$ta ,this monopoly is slowly nosing down .
M$ is responsible for the current ecosystem ,where only window$ is used by world countries ,may be except CHINA .what Governments should do is to concentrate on "eradicating" reliance on Window$ and M$.this way ,we can have a sane ecosystem ,where all OS competes each other ,unlike current M$ monopoly,DRM and more.

also ,the $$$$'s which can be saved by not using/buying window$ License is huge!thing !
IMO , GNU/Linux is ready for Desktop user.provided his IQ must be above 80