U.K. standards body taken to court over OOXML

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Cyrus_the_virus

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The British Standards Institution has been taken to court by a group of Unix users in an attempt to get the standards body to recant its approval of Microsoft's Office Open XML document format.

The UK Unix & Open Systems User Group said on Thursday that the British Standards Institution's controversial decision to vote for approval of OOXML in a recent International Organization for Standardization ballot followed a flawed decision-making process.

The UKUUG is also folding in many other complaints about Office Open XML (OOXML), such as unresolved patent issues and a lack of completion in the specification's documentation, and is calling for the High Court of Justice to force a judicial review of the BSI's decision. The UKUUG is hoping a judicial review would find the BSI decision to be flawed and reverse it.

OOXML is Microsoft's answer to the OpenDocument Format (ODF), an established ISO standard based entirely on open specifications. OOXML is also theoretically open, but central to the UKUUG's legal action is ISO's fast-tracking of the format into standardization without properly addressing its many unresolved technical flaws--an issue exacerbated by OOXML's extraordinary length as a specification, at 6,000 pages.

Following a highly contentious vote among national standards bodies, ISO announced on April 2 that OOXML was to become an official standard. There is, however, a two-month window following that date, during which the process can be derailed if one of the national standards bodies makes a formal appeal.

Serious objections have been raised within the decision-making community about the approval vote--notably in Norway, by the head of that country's technical committee--but none yet has come officially from any country's national standards body.

The UKUUG has been in existence for 32 years and is, according to Mark Taylor, the head of the Open Source Consortium (OSC), a "venerable organization of men with long grey beards."

"It is a testament to the feeling of injustice here," he told ZDNet UK on Thursday. "This is the first time they've done something like this."

Speaking to ZDNet UK on Thursday, UKUUG head Alain Williams said his group's objection was that ISO and the BSI were "trying to put forward something that is not fit for purpose."

"Microsoft is trying to game the standards process because they don't want a standard that can be implemented by other people," he said. "If they had wanted that, they could have gone with the ODF format (but), if they adopt something like that, they begin to lose their stranglehold on the desktop."

"Something that had that high a level of contention is not suitable for fast-tracking," Williams added.

Williams claimed the official backing of OOXML would harm not only the UK IT industry, by virtue of perpetuating Microsoft's "monopoly," but the country as a whole by not using an open standard that is guaranteed to be usable into the distant future. "If you're talking about reading documents in one or two hundred years' time, you would have great problems in doing it (with documents based on OOXML)," he said.

The OSC's Taylor told ZDNet UK that the UKUUG's action carried with it "prima facie evidence that the BSI's processes have not been complied with or done in a very strange way."

"A lot of us believe there are questions to be answered," said Taylor. "The remedy that is being sought is a mandatory order to withdraw the BSI's vote approving (OOXML). The BSI hasn't followed its own processes. For example, the (claim) that it was unanimously decided to pass (OOXML)--it wasn't. People will be called as witnesses to show there are serious problems with the BSI's processes."

Taylor, however, did not express confidence in the ability of the action--if successful--to reverse the ISO vote without similar actions being launched in other countries. "I don't believe the BSI on its own would be sufficient to pull the vote back, but it would certainly make a dent in it," he said. "Should there be others, it would certainly change the percentages (in the ISO tally)."

The BSI had not commented on the UKUUG's legal action at the time of writing.

Source: cNet
 

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
i don't know MS taking legal action against any country tht voted against the standard :lol: sore losers
 
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Cyrus_the_virus

Cyrus_the_virus

Unmountable Boot Volume
i don't know MS taking legal action against any country tht voted against the standard :lol: sore losers

That's because there is no grounds to do that on i-meow:rolleyes: No legitimate reason :lol:

and thanks to your ignorance, you missed this:
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83644
 

hellknight

BSD init pwns System V
OOXML sucks man, ODF is better. Thank God India voted against OOXML format. But I hate Infosys, NASSCOM, Wipro, TCS etc who voted for OOXML. These companies don't really care for national interest.
 

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
That's because there is no grounds to do that on i-meow:rolleyes: No legitimate reason :lol:

and thanks to your ignorance, you missed this:
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83644
dude filing a complaint with a governing body and the court :? i don't think that is the same :rolleyes:
 
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Cyrus_the_virus

Cyrus_the_virus

Unmountable Boot Volume
dude filing a complaint with a governing body and the court :? i don't think that is the same :rolleyes:

you can't file a case in the court when you're the one who's doing the wrong and when you have absolutely no evidence to back it up, that's why they protested with the governing body, because their cause has no genuine reason. :lol:
 

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
you can't file a case in the court when you're the one who's doing the wrong and when you have absolutely no evidence to back it up, that's why they protested with the governing body, because their cause has no genuine reason
that's a rubbish statement, when ur doing wrong, what do u mean doing wrong, what wrong has MS done considering the fact that it is now a Standard already, if it was so freaking wrong why would it win? I don't think people are so freaking dumb or desperate, considering the trumpet that OSS blows that is this and that and yet is no where wen compared to Windows and people aren't even freaking bothered to hack into Linux even after finding a vulnerability

and being in india you making such a statement is quite funny :lol:
 
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Cyrus_the_virus

Cyrus_the_virus

Unmountable Boot Volume
that's a rubbish statement, when ur doing wrong, what do u mean doing wrong, what wrong has MS done considering the fact that it is now a Standard already, if it was so freaking wrong why would it win? I don't think people are so freaking dumb or desperate(I wonder where shantanu is and why he doesn't find this objectionable when MS fanboys say it), considering the trumpet that OSS blows that is this and that and yet is no where wen compared to Windows and people aren't even freaking bothered to hack into Linux even after finding a vulnerability

and being in india you making such a statement is quite funny

:lol: can't stop laughing at your ignorance man. :lol:

*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=792700&postcount=21
*www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=805044&postcount=42

Should you have read this? Forget it man, understanding what really went on is only for intellectual people, for others, you fall into the trap of the smoke glass that MS has!

iMeow and saying something against MS no matter even if god says it's wrong, aren't we expecting too much of him guys? :lol:

Various threads have already discussed the pathetic state of OOXML, don't attempt to turn this thread into one of them, if you have no idea about what OOXML really is, then please read the threads or go google it, don't waste our time trying to prove it over and over again.

If you want to discuss something, stick to the news, and don't attempt to deviate the topic. Atleast use some of your useless time to read what is actually written in the posted news. It becomes an ISO standard only after the one month appeals time is over.:rolleyes:
 

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
ya ya and ya and you think that all those links are gonna change anything :) the fact is that people who drive India's growth support it, deal with it and if ... baaah forget it, i don't wanna get banned.

just remmeber don't spam the boards with use linux links man, i don't see any1 spamming the OSS section with any links that show linux in bad, so i request you not to do the same please

and that comment was neither general nor targeted towards any forum member i was saying that people who voted for OOXML are not dumb neither are they desperate :)
 
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Cyrus_the_virus

Cyrus_the_virus

Unmountable Boot Volume
just remmeber don't spam the boards with use linux links man, i don't see any1 spamming the OSS section with any links that show linux in bad, so i request you not to do the same please

:confused::confused: And why in the world are you talking about linux? who is talking about OSS or linux here? Here is your problem iMav, even when someone talks about a product, you think they are biased because they are comparing it to OSS or linux:lol::lol: and you're mentally so inclined to create everything MS has to do with windows vs linux :lol:

God and iMeow alone knows where LINUX and OSS came into this thread :lol:

Anyways, can you show me which links I have posted has anything to do with Linux or OSS? what links are you talking about? BTW, there is no section as such that you should post only linux and only windows, this forum is not your property, so yeah, live with it.. live with the links.. although I don't know which links.. :lol:
 

iMav

The Devil's Advocate
The British Standards Institution has been taken to court by a group of Unix users in an attempt to get the standards body to recant its approval of Microsoft's Office Open XML document format.

The UK Unix & Open Systems User Group said on Thursday that the British Standards Institution's controversial decision to vote for approval of OOXML in a recent International Organization for Standardization ballot followed a flawed decision-making process.
and that was my last post in the thread
 

gary4gar

GaurishSharma.com
On topic:
Okay I accept OOXML as a ISO standard but still there are few issues that need to be sorted out. i would be happy if MS takes care of them

1) Currently there is not implementation which is 100% Compatible
2) The specification is incomplete & has lot of bugs, wonder how is managed to Pass through ISO. Microsoft is really powerful i must say. Perhaps others should learn from it
 

infra_red_dude

Wire muncher!
IMHO neither ODF nor OOXML deserve the being an ISO standard. ODF lags behind OOXML while OOXML is very buggy and not at all an independent entity.
 
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Cyrus_the_virus

Cyrus_the_virus

Unmountable Boot Volume
1) Currently there is not implementation which is 100% Compatible
2) The specification is incomplete & has lot of bugs, wonder how is managed to Pass through ISO. Microsoft is really powerful i must say. Perhaps others should learn from it

100% true, only if everyone:rolleyes: could understand it.

IMHO neither ODF nor OOXML deserve the being an ISO standard. ODF lags behind OOXML while OOXML is very buggy and not at all an independent entity.

@infra, ODF was discussed thoroughly and became a standard only after it passed through ISO after 2-3years of approval process. It was not fastracked and lobbied and ballot stuffed by anyone and discussing a 600 pages document over 2-3 years is not hard.

On the other hand, OOXML being 10times more complicated, and more and 6500 pages was fastracked within a year's span and not all the issues found in the 6500 pages were discussed. Lot of ballot stuffing, lobbying by NGO's and an undisputed corrupt voting process(a very good example being norway's vote). This all simply doesn't give credibility to the ISO'ing of any format.

So, whether you like it not, OOXML will never be seen as credible format after the illegitimate passing of it at ISO. ODF has gone through the process of ISO they way it is supposed to and hence no shawdow of doubt can be cast over it's approval whether you like it or not. So, just because you think ODF lags behind OOXML and hence it should deserve ISO'ing is foolishness. :lol:

BTW, no one is against OOXML from becoming an ISO, the only problem is, if it is worth becoming an ISO on it's own technical merit then, it should have gone through the normal approval process without all the dirty lobbying and hidden patent traps.

Why push something if it's good to stand on it's own????? Does it make sense? The technical community is not foolish to push something away if it's good, rather they will try to use it. But if you try stuffing it down their throats saying it is good when it has atleast 1 unresolved flaw found in every 2 pages of the 6500 pages document, then this is exactly what you get!
 
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praka123

left this forum longback
IMHO neither ODF nor OOXML deserve the being an ISO standard. ODF lags behind OOXML while OOXML is very buggy and not at all an independent entity.
....that I dont know the innards of these so called open formats :p .one thing -that Gnome guys were supporting ooxml(de Iqaza and others) :D
 
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