Suggestions for a new PC

[Yamaraj]

Hi there!
This is my first post here, even though I've been visiting this forum for
almost an year. How selfish, isn't it? You bet!

Well, I'm about to assemble a new machine for myself. My younger
brother will claim my current machine, which is described below.

> Celeron D 320 (2.4GHz)
> Intel D865GBF Board
> Kingston DDR400 - 2*512MB = 1GB total [model - KVR400X64C3A/512]; dual channel of course!
> MSI GeForce4 Ti 4400 VTD 128MB - AGP 4x
> Samsung 955b 19" Color monitor - 3 years old
> 3M IN230XL protective screen for monitor - came for 3800/- approx.
> D-Link DFE-538TX 10/100 Adapter - attached to my DataOne ADSL modem
> Samsung SD-616Q DVD-ROM drive - regret buying it; tray issues; RPC1 patched
> HP CD16ri 16x CD-RW drive - BIOS patched to original LITE-ON LTR-16102B
> Seagate 6.4GB HDD - 6 years old; still rocking
> Seagate 80GB HDD - 2MB buffer
> Samsung 1.44MB FDD
> Samsung Stereo Speakers - 35W RMS; 6 years old; ain't replacing anytime soon
> TVS LanUPS 700M - EXCELLENT performance ; 6 years old; Gives 20min backup with current config
> Intex Panther Cabinet with Intex 400W Premium SMPS (okay, couldn't find any better ones locally)
> TVS-E Gold Keyboard & Samsung Optical Scroll Mouse
> 6 additional 80mm fans attached to the cabinet, with 3 in series to blow
external cool air directly over the CPU. Keeps my Prescott Celeron cool at
48c normal and 58-60c at high loads.

Excuse for buying a Celeron - Not keen on "modern technical slideshows"
or "demos", affectionately known as "First Person Shooters". Mostly play
AOE2 and RON series and the like.

My new machine will NOT be used for running DOOM or HL2 slideshows.
However, it should be fairly competent and future-proof to some extent.
I'm currently hanging between P4 HT 3GHz and AMD64 3000+ choice.

I prefer Intel because of their rock-solid performance and hardware
protection features. These CPUs will not burn easily.
I may prefer AMD for their good performance against Intel CPUs. Frankly,
nVIDIA nForce4 series of chipsets have got me excited. I really like the
amount of feature and scope they pack within.

Remember that I won't handover my monitor, keyboard, mouse, my HDDs
and my ADSL CPE. So there we go, start contributing suggestions for
a fairly powerful, but not a gamer's, machine. Wait! Maybe I won't even
let my brother have my 1GB Kingston. So no DDR2 boards either.

Intel
------
> P4 3.0GHz HT LGA775
> Intel D915GAV (easily available, and good performance, on-board video)
Kindly suggest better motherboards from ASUS, MSI and GigaByte. Boards
should not be over priced (more than 8500/-). NO SLi please!

AMD
-----
> Athlon64 3000+/3200+; 939 pins; Winchester core; is Venice around?
Choice of motherboard is a little more complex than anything else, for me.
I prefer nForce4 Ultra chipsets. NO SLi. RAID & Firewire are not important.

(1) MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum / K8N Neo4-FI
(2) GigaByte GA-K8N Ultra-9 / GA-K8NXP-9
(3) ASUS A8N-E

If all fails, I may go for MSI RS480M2 for its on-board video.
You may be wondering why I placed ASUS A8N-E last in my preference
list. Don't laugh! I really hate their choice of color for the PCB of this board.
I prefer a BLACK PCB in case of AMD boards. Intel blues are good too.

Cabinet & SMPS
-------------------
In an ideal situation, I would have liked to own Antec Performance series
of cabinets and a decent NeoPower 480W power supply. However, nothing
is perfect ...and it makes no sense to spend a LOT of money on dumb
cabinets.

I even contacted VIP for their ZB01 Server Chassis with 450W SMPS, but
was told it sells for 7250/- with shipping extra. Now, that's pretty costly.

I'd like to have iBall i701 Server Chassis, or something close to it. It sells
for about 2500/- locally here in Patna. However I'm not impressed with the
400W SMPS it comes with.

I'd also like to have a decent SMPS of at least 450W rating with at least
16A or 18A on +12V rails. My current Intex 400W gives only 10A!!!
Dual +12V are available with Antec, but probably not in India?

(1) Antec - good but tooooo costly
(2) PowerSafe or VIP - don't know much about them. I'm interested if they
meet my requirements (16/18A on +12V) and are reliable.
(3) Any other SMPS better than my current one.

UPS
-----
My current one - TVS LanUPS 700M (700VA/420W max) has performed
extremely well in last 6 years. Never had ANY problems with it, never!
It gives good backup ...in fact very good backup. I get 20mins or more
with my current system, even on full load.

I'll need a similar performing or better UPS for my system, because this
one will go to my brother. So, I'm searching for a 1000VA or 1500VA UPS
from APC or TVS. I do not trust other brands like Microtek, Powercom,
Elnova and countless others. I'll never power on my system running on
a cheap UPS. I've seen disasters because of bad SMPS and/or UPS.

(1) APC 1000VA / 1500VA
(2) TVS LanUPS 1000M (next model is 2200VA, eek!)

Remember, the UPS has to be able to supply power to my 19" CRT too.

Graphics Card
-----------------
I'm not a technical demo runner, you know? Any basic PCI-E (PCI-X) card
will do. I'm also happy with on-board video if I go with Intel 915GAV or
ATI RS480. I may go for 6200TC 256MB* from XFX, Leadtek or others.
* - I know the card comes with 32MB or 64MB total VRAM.

Others
--------
I'll probably go for a BenQ/Lite-On/SONY or Pioneer DVD writer. Kindly
suggest good and widely available models.

Okay, quite a long post for a first timer. I expect to get many suggestions
along with the price information related to my wish-list.

At last, I would like to know if AMD Athlon64 CPUs are able to save
themselves from burning due to overheating like their Intel counterparts,
or not? Some say a few motherboards have this feature implemented.
I'm not sure I'll go for AMD if they sill have overheating problems unsolved.

Regards,
Yamaraj

 

[Deleted member 5901]

Ur list is long !!! So go in for AMD and b happy!!!!


Cheers !!

 

[mohit]

man that was a real looong post , anyways my suggestions are as follows

AMD 64 bit 3000+ (939 pin) ... AMD rocks !! and i myself am using intel but i desparately am waiting to buy an AMD.

ASUS A8N-E (plz ignore the color , this is a very good performer and is also feature packed)

Go for a vanilla 6600 from Gainward/XFX/Leadtek instead of going for 6200.

Go for any decent cabinet according to your choice but just make sure you buy a very very good SMPS (Antec preferred and min.400 W) .. i am using antec smart power and it is priced for around 3300/- ... I dont know much about powersafe but i have heard it is decent.

Go for the APC UPS or you may go for TVS as well since you already own a TVS and say it is very reliable ... and dude pla tell me how much are you getting the TVS Lan ups for ?

Go for a Lite-on DVD-RW ... they are sony OEM's and come at a very very good price

 

[akshayt]

for gaming amd normally is better but for working with apps liek photoshop,3ds max etc intel might be better

winchester don't heat too much while prescott heat

amd 64 supports 64bit and 64bit intels ,do you know the price?

Amd 3200 939 64bit
winchester
venice if you find it ,if you wait then you might be able to buy it
abt 9500 for winchester

asus a8n-e

Cabinet take atx for abt 1000bucks

take antec psu if you can afford it ,400watts or higher
450watts smartpower the one i bought has 25ampers on +12va or somethinh live
sl400 shd cost abt 3-3.5k,towards the later
450 i bought for atleast 4100
they are also sold though might by different shop/delers etc 3900 + tax

approx prices,may differ with place , time,consider them to vary by +-rs 100 in just by interpretation and place,time,shop consider extra.
microtek 800va-2300
1000va-abt 6k

apc 800va abt 4800

don't go for tc or hypermemomory though hypermemory by ati might be better in equavilent model though ,still forget it
remember aoe 3,be prepared for it and what abt the physics egine it will support?
no money:
go for 6200 128mb / 256mb pci-e

some money:
128/256mb geforce 6600 preferably bettr ones,are hynix chips better

enuf money and non-o\intensive gaming and loend graphic card satisfactory for you , then this card is more than enuf
6600gt pcie- 128mb / 256mb

what ever you do only go for 128bit or 256bit memory interface . Don 't take 64bit memory interface and be very very vry of it especially with geforce 6600 and 6200

also see whther your 6600gt is 128bit memory interface and 256bit of graphic interface or something etc

what abt ram
take 512mb X 2 ddr 400 corsair cl=2.5 for 2800 + tax each
if this is too much
take 256mb * 2 and replace it wiyh 512mb * 2 or 1gb *2 when required
do you know 4moduels probs with non-venice etc

isn't benq dvd rw good?

also,how is pioneeer

 

[Yamaraj]

Well ...I need more suggestions and prices, people!

How much do the MSI and GigaByte nForce4 Ultra boards cost, and how
well they compared against ASUS A8N-E? Believe me, I would have
gone for A8N-SLi primarily for its PCB color, but I dont need fancy gaming
stuff.

And, what other P4 LGA775 boards are rated higher than the Intel ones?
I'll prefer 915G/915P chipsets, in case I decide to get a P4 system.

As for cabinets, I don't think Antecs are priced very well. They are usually
overpriced and way overrated. However, their PSUs are good, if not the
best. As said earlier, any good full tower cabinet will do, like iBall i701.

I'm a little confused when it comes to decide which SMPS/PSU to choose.
At least 450W is what I'm looking for, currently. Are other brands like
ToPower, Thermaltake and Zalman available in our country? Can someone
please confirm the rating of amperes on +12V rails in PowerSafe/VIP PSUs
ranging from 450W to 500W? Additional SATA/AUX and 6-7 molex power
connectors will do good for me.

I've not yet decided which UPS to get - APC or TVS. Please post your own
good/bad stories about your own UPS? My 6 years old LanUPS 700M cost
me approx 12750/- then in 1999. I bought it from Delhi.

akshayt,
I don't have any plans to buy any Microtek product, ever! And, I'll need a
UPS with power rating of at least 1000VA to 1500VA.

6600 sounds good, but 6200 (with or without TC) will do. I may opt for
6600 once the prices start to fall a bit more, or if I manage to save some
money on other components.

akshayt, you didn't read my post properly, it seems. I don't have to buy
any RAM for my new system. I already have Kingston 1GB DDR400 in my
current system, which will get installed in the newer one.

I'm not sure about the performance of BenQ (formerly Acer?) DVD writers
but the Pioneer, Lite-On and SONY seem to perform very good. LG seems
to have support for the DVD-RAM which currently not many (or not any)
drives have support for.

Suggestions are invited.

Regards,
Yamaraj

 

[mohit]

@ yamaraj
man i think u seriously hate asus for the color ... lol. newaz gigabyte has availability probs and is not alwaz available. msi boards will have a price similar to asus boards. maybe little difference. u can go for msi also as its boards are known for rock solid perfomance. the asus a8n-e board costs around 7.5k and i dont know the msi prices. but it will be somewhat similar only.

for intel processors also there are better boards than the intel originals .. for eg there is a msi 915 combo board which has both ddr n ddr 2 support. there are similar models from asus also. but i prefer intel as these boards are made by intel themselves and i have a liking for the intel express installer which comes with intel orig boards.. its a breeze!!!

for you cabby and power supply .. get any cabinet you like but make sure you buy a smps from antec or vip or powersafe. antec is the best available in india i guess and ya no doubt they are over priced. but it is better to be safe then sorry.

for the UPS i dont know why are you asking for suggestions ? u have had a wonderful experience with your TVS and why dont u want to go for it again ? it is an indian company and definitely makes its products according to indian needs. go for tvs and stop thinking. apc is also a very good brand. just choose either from apc or tvs. apc will be more expensive though.

 

[akshayt]

go for asus a8n-e if you don't want sli and have limitd budget.
read gigabyte is not too good with mobos in indis except in higher stuff or something.
ask others if this statement is true or not.

just go for asus

go for antec psu if you can afford it that is
i paid abt 4100 i think for 450watts smartpower
you may find 400watts smart power for 3-3.5k
what is required is ratings on diff lines,try to stay with antec 450 or higherask others if i am correct please don't blame me later for anything

geforce 6600gt

abvoid hypermemory or turbocache

 

[Yamaraj]

@ mohit
Yeah, I'm serious about the color of PCB. I hate A8N-E for its PCB color.
I've also heard that ASUS is replacing sounthbridge fans on its SLi board.
They may also have problems with A8N-E, I'm not sure. Besides, MSI's
Neo4 Platinum is attractive and performs almost equally well if not better
than ASUS A8N-E. I just need prices for all these ASUS, MSI and GigaByte
boards. So far, I'm aware of only A8N-E and A8N-SLi prices.

Antec PSUs are good; I don't see anything bad in them except the
exceoptionally high prices. Besides, I need 450W or better, and an Antec
450W or better costs a life. PowerSafe or VIP may be good, but I don't
know about their power rating. What's the ampere rating on their +12V
rails? And, how good/bad is Zebronics?

I'm inviting opinions and suggestions on UPS choice only because TVSE
doesn't have a 1500VA model in LanUPS category. The model jump is
straight from 1000VA to 2200VA. Other than that, I've full faith in TVSE.
The piece I've owned for last 6 years, hasn't blinked once without asking
me. Rock solid, really! I need prices for TVSE and APC models.


@ akshayt
SLi means nothing to me. I hate spending fortunes on meaningless games.
A8N-E is good, but I think MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum and GigaByte GA K8N
Ultra9 and GA K8NXP-9 are better boards. But, I don't have their prices
and don't know where to get them from.

Antec is good for PSUs. See what I've written in reply to mohit.

Man, you seem to be advertising the GeForce 6600GT. 6600GT is for die-
hard gamers, who just don't have enough money to spend on 6800s.
I just want to know if 6200 is available without TC, with 256MB or not.
I'm sure the non-TC version of 6200 will outperform the TC version, right?
Whatever, I just need a not-so-expensive-graphics-soluation that will
perform better than my existing GeForce4 Ti 4400 128MB.

PRICES needed people, respond!!!

Regards,
Yamaraj

 

[akshayt]

i would rather take asus if i can rather than msi or gigabyte.

wasn't msi sued , once for not using quality parts or something?

also,msi neo 4 platinum might not oc as well and may cost more

if you can take asus why would you consider gigabyte?


in a psu what is important is power rating and there is 25 A on +12va line of antec 450 smart power that i have bought
also,see whther the psu has quality capacitor and try to see if it is heavier than the others or not.
also,isn't powersafe same as L&C and in the not recommended list of tomshardware or something?

try to take antec

geforce 6200(don't take TC of nvidia/hypermemory of ati) shd be better for future games than geforce 4 ti as atleast it would be supported even if thre is no performance hike.

but you can ask others abt performance it might be in competion to ti 4400.

but remember this though you might have the visual they need a more poerful system and for istance if 4 ti uns in dx 8.1 and geforce 6200 in dx 9 then the performance may be ...

 

[mohit]

@akshayt
u r seriously advertising for asus and 6600 i guess. plz suggest not force. if he wants msi let him take msi as they are not bad either. infact msi boards are very very good. and again if he wants gigabyte let him take gigabyte man .. he has just asked us for the prices and availability. and plz post details about when msi was sued for using sub standard components.

and ya

but remember this though you might have the visual they need a more poerful system and for istance if 4 ti uns in dx 8.1 and geforce 6200 in dx 9 then the performance may be ...

what do u mean man ??? just be clear and simple instead of trying to use jargon and confusing us. i think u meant that 6220 supports dx 9 and 4 ti supports dx 8.1 so 6200 is much more future proof ? is that what u meant ?

@yamaraj
dude i will be getting the price of the msi platinum board by evening. ill post it then and ya the geforce 6200 is available in 128 and 256 mb versions from xfx. but both these models have 64bit memory interface. instead of these u can go for the vanilla 6600 from xfx which also comes in 128 and 256 mb versions and has 128 bit memory interface. it shud cost around 7k approx. now the choice is all urs.

 

[Yamaraj]

@yamaraj
dude i will be getting the price of the msi platinum board by evening. ill post it then and ya the geforce 6200 is available in 128 and 256 mb versions from xfx. but both these models have 64bit memory interface. instead of these u can go for the vanilla 6600 from xfx which also comes in 128 and 256 mb versions and has 128 bit memory interface. it shud cost around 7k approx. now the choice is all urs.

Now this is something worthy of a reply!
Is the 6200 non-TC 128-bit 128/256MB available in India? Which brand?
6600 plain seems good because 6200 non-TC is very close in pricing.

Please get prices for MSI and GigaByte boards, and also for APC 1000VA,
1500VA and TVSE 1000VA/2200VA. See if you (or anyone) can find if
the PowerSafe or VIP SMPS comes with more than 16A/18A on +12V.

My brother is in Delhi right now, and he's getting prices for everything
he can find. He told me MSI RS480 is available for 5300/- only.
He also mentioned that ASUS Star Ice cooling fan comes free with A8N-E.
Silly me, I forgot to ask him the cost of A8N-E. Other prices he mentioned:

ASUS Star Ice - 1800/- (Also, free with A8N-E; Nehru Place info.)
AMD 3000+ - 7400/-
AMD 3200+ - 9400/-
AMD 3500+ - 15000/- (All 939 pins)

Antec 350W - 3800/-
Antec 400W - 4500/-

Regard,
Yamaraj

 

[supersaiyan]

well my advice to u is to get a 6200tc if u don't want harcore gamin. and amd for sure. also get a cheap cabinet but an antec power supply to save moneyn

 

[mohit]

@yamaraj
hey dude you are getting really good prices for all the stuff. i am sorry but i havent yet recived the reply to my email which i sent to the dealer for the msi board's pricing. will let u know as soon as i receive it. btw why dont u get it from the same place where you got the price for the rs480 ?

and ya xfx 6200 non tc has 128/256 mb versions available both as pci-e and agp 8x. i saw this in the rashi peripherals may scheduler. the model numbers for the pci-e versions are

1. PV-T43V-RAF7 128 MB
2. PV-T43V-UAF7 256 MB

as i said earlier both these cards have a 64 bit mem interface. check with a local rashi dealer but rashi does not have a branch in patna , the nearest for u will be ranchi i guess. email them at ranchi@rptechindia.com and get the details.

 

[pimpom]

plz post details about when msi was sued for using sub standard components.

Large companies are being sued all the time for one reason or another, but what akshayt heard about was probably the case where MSI was sued for using sub-standard capacitors on their motherboards.

But it was many, if not most, major motherboard manufacturers and not just MSI who used those capacitors. There are two versions of the story : (I can't quote the source because I read these quite some time ago and they were from many different sources).

Version 1 : A disgruntled employee stole his company's formula for the electrolyte used in capacitors and sold it to another company. But the formula was incomplete (a stabilising component was missing), and the other company, knowingly or unknowingly, manufactured capacitors with the imperfect formula. Since they did not have to spend anything on research, the company could sell them at a low price.

Version 2 : A Taiwanese company was on the brink of going bankrupt and, in order to save money, they manufactured capacitors without the proper stabilising chemical.

Whichever version is the correct one, many manufacturers unsuspectingly bought millions of those defective capacitors and used them in their products. The defect showed up only after the motherboards had been in use for periods ranging from a few months to more than two years.

Many manufacturers tried to hush up the matter and either denied that they used sub-standard components or quietly replaced any defective motherboard returned to them.

But MSI decided to be honest, openly announced the mistake and offered to replace all motherboards from that batch. And they got sued for their pains. It's ironic that AFAIK, they are the only company who faced a major lawsuit over the matter. They really have my sympathies.

 

[mohit]

@pimpom
thanx for the info dude. and hey man akshayt this means that msi is a better option than asus .. atleast they offered replacement. next time u quote this incident somewhere plz post the whole story.

 

[Yamaraj]

Today I went to a TVSE dealer here in Patna to ask for UPS prices.
You won't believe, TVSE LanUPS 1000M model has a retail price of 15k.
Somehow, the dealer offered me a price 12500/-. But I think it's too
expensive. Even though I bought my LanUPS 700M model for 12750/-
total (on 12/7/99, quoting from invoice), the price for 1000M still seems
unjustified. On the other hand, APC BackUPS 1500VA comes for less than
11k, but I don't have the actual price.

Another option is to go for TVSE StartUPS series, that have a modified
sivewave output, worse than the LanUPS series. I think APC would be a
better solution in this situation. If LanUPS 1000M was priced somewhere
around 8-9k, it would have been my first choice.

So tell me people, does APC perform upto its name? Share your very own
experience. Their BackUPS series provide sinewave output which is good.

How good is Powercom? Prices?

@ mohit,
I asked my brother about the Neo4 Platinum, and he replied that the
dealer didn't have any other MSI board for AMD64 939s. However, I'm
sure he's trying his best there and will report back soon.

If only 64-bit 6200s are available here, I'm not going after them. As I said
before, I need a DX9 card with a performance at least 1.5x better than my
current Ti4400 one. 6600 looks good, but I'm reluctant to paying that
much for graphics card. It makes me feel like a gamer, which I don't like.

And, what about SMPS people, has anyone got any information on VIP
or PowerSafe yet? No Antec please, I'm beginning to hate this brand.
Just need a 450W/480W reliable peice with more than 16A on +12V rails.
Any Vantec, ThermalTake, Enermax , ToPower will do, but no Antec!
Willing to pay not more than 3500/- for an SMPS unit.

Regards,
Yamaraj

 

[akshayt]

powersafe 400watts may have 17A on +12va line but it is in not recommended list,shd be abt 1.5-2k.