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Rs 500 and Rs 1,000 notes pulled out of circulation immediately: PM Narendra Modi

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sling-shot

Wise Old Owl
There is something about cash that none of the electronic means have. It is simple, easy to maintain, physically present. Not dependent on battery charge or internet availability. There is generally no third party getting a slice of it. There is no interoperability problem.

I select mode of payment based on my comfort factors. Whatever happens, I never go out of my house without at least 1000 rupees in cash.
 
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sggupta95

Broken In
It is amusing to see people crying about hardships of poor people after this move when everyday 377 people die in road accidents in India.
hey,you know road accidents are misfortunes and the deaths that are being "reported" are murders caused by this demonetisation,and not influenced at all by any other factors right?/s
at least that's what people will have you think.i have even heard some compare it to a "genocide".
but anyway,has anyone used or planning to use UPI?
it's a pretty cool feature of the government.
basically it's a service where you make an alias,and use that to transfer money.you can make payment to any other person irrespective of the bank and without knowing the account details,and it is totally free.there's an mpin required (i think,or something like that to make a transaction
 
D

Deleted member 118788

Guest
And does rural India defines what is good for India(conservative practices,gender discrimination,girl education,gotra/caste system etc). Remember majority is not always right. India is the only country in the world with such a large scale economy & still transact using much more amount of cash than other nations with similar economies. You talk about poor people suffering but they suffer everyday.Why don't they open bank accounts when PM has even launched Jan Dhan Yojna specifically for this purpose? Surely it won't involve more suffering than they are used to.

It is amusing to see people crying about hardships of poor people after this move when everyday 377 people die in road accidents in India.This is what the problem in India is. People become accustomed to a certain way then they insist on continuing with it even if it is not the most efficient or even right way. People in India just don't believe in their financial institutions & that is the only problem. Do you really believe that all those queues in front of banks & ATMs consist of people in emergency need of cash. Most of them are there because they simply don't believe RBI. These are the same people who would queue up in front of ICICI bank branches/ATMs in midnight in 2008 because of a rumor that ICICI bank is going down & they would lose their deposit forcing RBI to release an official statement that all is well as ICICI branches were facing a cash shortage which is to be expected in such situations.

Almost anybody with a mobile & decent awareness(& I am not talking about formal education) knows about paytm & its wallet so why not use it wherever possible.How much cash people spend every day even in rural India?& if they are spending so much cash everyday then how come almost no body is paying income tax.Sure there are genuine people who requires cash everyday & they would have no problem getting it too if not for the majority of people who would withdraw cash even if not urgently required simply for the sake of having their own peace of mind.

First of all, it was a completely ill-planned move taken in rush just for the sake of benefits in UP elections. If Mr. Modi was so against corruption then why no strict actions have been taken against Mining Mafia and BJP's Janardhana Reddy? He is spending 500 crores in his daughter's wedding? If they would have just arrested many ministers of political parties including Sharad Pawar, Gopinath Mundhe, Narendra Mehta, Corrupt officials of BCCI, etc then they would have collected more black money than it is present in the system. As per the raids made by IT dept this year, only 6% of black money is found in the form of cash. They are making everyone suffer for a few percent of cash. Every single rally of Mr. Modi have some wrong facts cited or information cited without any source which is very bad considering he is the PM of the country. How do you expects a trader to do business? Does bank grants every individual credits cards/debit cards with transactions capacity of 50K/1L in a single transaction? Have you ever seen how businesses take place in a whole sale market? How do you expect people with no technical knowledge to operate paytm, debit card or credit card? Don't simply compare India to developed nations where they were grew sawing how to operate credit cards. See TV channels which show ground reality and not TV channels like Zee TV who promotes BJP for their political/business benefits. See NDTV India and the ground reality they show by going into the actual places. Labourers of our country are not able to work as they need to stand all the time at banks and even if they are getting their wages paid by RTGS, they still need to go to the bank to withdraw.

It was the responsibility our PM to ensure that ATMs were upgraded first to accommodate newer notes and handle such load. Majority of banks have their ATM outsourced and only reply they are giving to general public is that the ATM is outsourced and it is not our responsibility to maintain them. PM should had ensured that all new currency notes were printed first and equivalent replacement should have been available from Day 1. In the end, PM have failed the country.
 

Inceptionist

Journeyman
And does rural India defines what is good for India(conservative practices,gender discrimination,girl education,gotra/caste system etc). Remember majority is not always right. India is the only country in the world with such a large scale economy & still transact using much more amount of cash than other nations with similar economies. You talk about poor people suffering but they suffer everyday.Why don't they open bank accounts when PM has even launched Jan Dhan Yojna specifically for this purpose? Surely it won't involve more suffering than they are used to.

It is amusing to see people crying about hardships of poor people after this move when everyday 377 people die in road accidents in India.This is what the problem in India is. People become accustomed to a certain way then they insist on continuing with it even if it is not the most efficient or even right way. People in India just don't believe in their financial institutions & that is the only problem. Do you really believe that all those queues in front of banks & ATMs consist of people in emergency need of cash. Most of them are there because they simply don't believe RBI. These are the same people who would queue up in front of ICICI bank branches/ATMs in midnight in 2008 because of a rumor that ICICI bank is going down & they would lose their deposit forcing RBI to release an official statement that all is well as ICICI branches were facing a cash shortage which is to be expected in such situations.

Almost anybody with a mobile & decent awareness(& I am not talking about formal education) knows about paytm & its wallet so why not use it wherever possible.How much cash people spend every day even in rural India?& if they are spending so much cash everyday then how come almost no body is paying income tax.Sure there are genuine people who requires cash everyday & they would have no problem getting it too if not for the majority of people who would withdraw cash even if not urgently required simply for the sake of having their own peace of mind.

WHAT THE F

Jesus Christ this comment is so full of sociopathy and elitism I don't know where to even begin.

Great mods we have here. No wonder this forum has gone down the drain.
 

Vyom

The Power of x480
Staff member
Admin
Great mods we have here. No wonder this forum has gone down the drain.

I am happy mods here are not politically correct and believe everyone is free to express their views.
I welcome to put forth your own views and try to counter the opinion through arguments, rather than being personal.

In this regard, reply written by Geek-With-Lens is good.
 

Zangetsu

I am the master of my Fate.
Honest Self-Employed people are very less who actually pay Tax loyally.

Class doesn't matter here as Tax evasion is done by Middle class people also.
 

maheshn

Journeyman
Did you even saw the queue at banks? There are many problems going on. How do you expect people to wait at banks in time of emergency? If they wanted to make such an action then they should have planned it properly. Union bank in our area used to have 4 counters open before regularly and now they only have 2 counters. This is we are talking about cities. The situation is much worse in rural areas. Read this. Why ATMS are Struggling Under The Pressures of Demonetisatio

I for one strongly disagree with the views mentioned...

I live in a Tier III city (not a metro or anywhere near one) and I haven't faced any difficulty in exchanging old currency for new, depositing old currency into banks or obtaining new from banks and ATMs. Let me tell you some personal experiences since 9/11.

-First day 10th - knew there would be crowds. Didn't go anywhere near the banks.
-Second day - visited 4 atms till a functioning one was found and minimal cash was obtained. Mind, I don't even own a two-wheeler despite being 40, married and employed(!). It was one bus ride and the rest walk around the town.
-Third day - deposited all the old notes in (1) The post Office and (2) bank having my salary a/c. Both were open. It was hassle free and took only an hour or so in each case.
-Sunday - 11th - went to the same bank, withdrew 10000/- for household expenses.

All it took was some small effort.

(And before jumping on hospitals/sick people etc bandwagon, I'm also a recovering heart attack survivor undergone surgery 1 1/2 years ago.)

Later, I've seen and stood in ATM queues several times to get change (the banks give only 2000/- notes whereas ALL active ATM's were giving 100s and 50s). In spite of the crowds, all the people were polite and well behaved, and there was no mob scenes or storming the banks.

This may be because I live in South India. I have no idea what it's like in the north and other areas.

Overall there is inconvenience, yes, but never to the extent made out by the "popular" media or the politicians. The only ones who really suffer are the people hoarding cash for a long period and now don't have sufficient time to remit in their bank accounts, or they don't have bank accounts in spite of the Jan Dhan initiative.

And also you might want to talk to a tax consultant to know the truth regarding deposit of large sums of money in your account... according to a CA I talked to the "200% fine" mentioned in the media (again) is meaningless as the govt can't change the current I-T structure without new legislation, so if current deposits are shown as current year income and advance tax paid the maximum the payer would be hit with is about 33%.

In short, do look around everywhere before forming opinions. Ground reality differs from state to state, and place to place within states. Try to see things with an open mind instead of anger., if at all possible.
 
D

Deleted member 118788

Guest
^ Thank you for sharing your experiences and views with us all. I have a few questions unanswered and if you could answer them then I'll find myself in peace. Here are my questions.

1. Mr. PM didn't announced that BJP will only accept donation via cheque or netbanking. Why?

2. Mr. PM didn't announced a raid at the houses of corrupt politicians. Why? Just for your information in case you're not aware one of their former minister is spending 500 crores on their daughter's wedding.

3. Mr. PM didn't announced any strict action to recover Bad loans of Bank. Total amount of bad loans is mind boggling. Does that means he won't harm the big corporate houses? Why? Another question how does people like Vijay Mallya slips out of their hand. Even when a person blunders on a small loan and the case goes in court then even their passports are seized. Did he got special treatment as he is a BJP member and their unofficial funder?

4. Mr. PM didn't posted any figures they spent on their election campaign. Why?

You know he is no different. He is a corrupted politician at the end of the day and will stay the same. If he was different then he would have done something different. This happens when you make a marketing guy the pm of the country. They make big fake promises [Make in India, Digital India, etc]..... and rally around the world to promote Digital India. Idiots don't understand that they first need to upgrade the minimum internet connection in our country before rallying around the world. My words are harsh and may not be liked by many of you but look inside you and see the reality.
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
WHAT THE F

Jesus Christ this comment is so full of sociopathy and elitism I don't know where to even begin.

Great mods we have here. No wonder this forum has gone down the drain.
For someone with a user name clearly inspired by a movie that many consider as quite an innovative movie which really requires a wide & open mind to understand & enjoy it, you really seem to display quite a narrow minded view.

First of all that is my personal opinion as an individual which is separate from what my role as an moderator is here(which is to make sure forum rules are followed). Linking both of them together & then blaming me for completely different matter is what comes across as a statement from an elitist who thinks only he has the right authority & answer to the issue at hand.You are right though in at least one thing, it is indeed not possible for you or anyone with the same reasoning path to even begin because that would require a logical & understanding viewpoint of the issue which is absent here.

P.S.I can also guess the meaning behind your usage of the word "sociopath" but I will not discuss it because that would be a violation of forum rules which neither a member & especially not a moderator should be doing.

First of all, it was a completely ill-planned move taken in rush just for the sake of benefits in UP elections. If Mr. Modi was so against corruption then why no strict actions have been taken against Mining Mafia and BJP's Janardhana Reddy? He is spending 500 crores in his daughter's wedding? If they would have just arrested many ministers of political parties including Sharad Pawar, Gopinath Mundhe, Narendra Mehta, Corrupt officials of BCCI, etc then they would have collected more black money than it is present in the system. As per the raids made by IT dept this year, only 6% of black money is found in the form of cash. They are making everyone suffer for a few percent of cash. Every single rally of Mr. Modi have some wrong facts cited or information cited without any source which is very bad considering he is the PM of the country. How do you expects a trader to do business? Does bank grants every individual credits cards/debit cards with transactions capacity of 50K/1L in a single transaction? Have you ever seen how businesses take place in a whole sale market? How do you expect people with no technical knowledge to operate paytm, debit card or credit card? Don't simply compare India to developed nations where they were grew sawing how to operate credit cards. See TV channels which show ground reality and not TV channels like Zee TV who promotes BJP for their political/business benefits. See NDTV India and the ground reality they show by going into the actual places. Labourers of our country are not able to work as they need to stand all the time at banks and even if they are getting their wages paid by RTGS, they still need to go to the bank to withdraw.

It was the responsibility our PM to ensure that ATMs were upgraded first to accommodate newer notes and handle such load. Majority of banks have their ATM outsourced and only reply they are giving to general public is that the ATM is outsourced and it is not our responsibility to maintain them. PM should had ensured that all new currency notes were printed first and equivalent replacement should have been available from Day 1. In the end, PM have failed the country.

1.It may be or may not be for the sake of benefits in UP elections but that does not make it an absolutely wrong decision.In any case all of you are welcome to open a thread here discussing UP election results with regard to this move.

2.Mr.Modi is PM of India not dictator of India.To arrest somebody who have the resources to hire lawyers like Fali S Nariman,Ram Jethmalani,Harish salve etc you really have no idea how Indian law system works.There is a reason these lawyers charges more for an hour than many make in a year.Just because you know somebody is corrupt is not enough unless that can be proved in a court of law all the way to Supreme Court in India which as you might have guessed by now is very rare.

3.I know that wholesale markets rely heavily on cash but I also know that many times not all of that cash is accounted in white money economy.It may not be as much as some big scam but it is there.As for labourers not able to work I agree it is true but no big change comes without its own share of problem.I wonder if PM has announced this step months in advance, which would have reduce its impact to almost nil on common people as well as black money hoarders, then how many people would have said that this move was just a theatrics(which they are saying presently anyway).

5.I don't watch TV news channels.I only read 2 newspapers out of which one is quite anti-Modi.Unlike some others I prefer to read both sides before forming an opinion.

4.Again you have no idea how bureaucracy works.It is not possible to implement such a move with intended results unless very few people are kept in loop.It was never possible to implement this move with such sudden impact if govt was going to instruct RBI which in turn need to instruct banks to upgrade their ATMs which in turn need to contract it out to their ATM service providers.

There is a proverb saying missing forest for the trees & all those who are saying this will not help in curbing black money are missing the whole picture.Even Modi knew this move was not going to curb or even bring back quite an amount of black money.Surely a person who became the the first non-congress PM after winning with a clear majority in decades in India would have done his homework before trying such a bold & risky move.Have you not seen the reports of electronic transactions jumping many folds or the increase in cash deposits of banks by quite a large %? Even small traders in tier 2 & tier 3 cities are placing orders for swiping machines.This move is not just intended for black money but also for moving India away from cash based economy as much as possible & to bring even large amount of white money in cash form into formal banking system.There will undoubtedly be some negative impacts but in the long run,say 5-10 years down the road,this move may be counted as the first major move for moving India away from old cash based economy to the much more efficient & transparent E-economy.

- - - Updated - - -

^ Thank you for sharing your experiences and views with us all. I have a few questions unanswered and if you could answer them then I'll find myself in peace. Here are my questions.

1. Mr. PM didn't announced that BJP will only accept donation via cheque or netbanking. Why?

2. Mr. PM didn't announced a raid at the houses of corrupt politicians. Why? Just for your information in case you're not aware one of their former minister is spending 500 crores on their daughter's wedding.

3. Mr. PM didn't announced any strict action to recover Bad loans of Bank. Total amount of bad loans is mind boggling. Does that means he won't harm the big corporate houses? Why? Another question how does people like Vijay Mallya slips out of their hand. Even when a person blunders on a small loan and the case goes in court then even their passports are seized. Did he got special treatment as he is a BJP member and their unofficial funder?

4. Mr. PM didn't posted any figures they spent on their election campaign. Why?

You know he is no different. He is a corrupted politician at the end of the day and will stay the same. If he was different then he would have done something different. This happens when you make a marketing guy the pm of the country. They make big fake promises [Make in India, Digital India, etc]..... and rally around the world to promote Digital India. Idiots don't understand that they first need to upgrade the minimum internet connection in our country before rallying around the world. My words are harsh and may not be liked by many of you but look inside you and see the reality.

1.Because this is not satyug & Modi is not Harishchandra.On a more serious note this is because in India unless every party starts accepting all donations by chq/dd etc, any party which adopt this will be doing a political suicide.

2.Already answered in my earlier post.Also just to add 500Cr is a huge sum for many but there are people who earn more than this in a year quite comfortably.Point is that no body is answerable for spending money no matter how large the amount is as long as it can not be proved in a court of law as illegally acquired money.

3.Again you have no idea how banking system works.Do you even know that there is a concept of restructuring/nursing of NPAs in banks & just because some amount is bad loan today does not mean it can not turn to good load or even partially good loan some times later(usually a year or two at least)?Recovering bad loans from big corporate houses is not as simple as you might think.That is why to stop giving bad loans in the first place is the best option & that is why it is a good idea to bring down govt stake in all PSBs to 49% but then all leftists & unions will oppose it tooth & nail because that would mean working like pvt sector which we all know is very bad(after all majority of bad loans are on account of public sector banks so that means pvt sector banks are not doing the country a good service if they are not giving bad loans). Vijay Mallaya got all his loans when BJP was out of power so you should thank congress for making Mallaya the funding man of BJP. As for getting out of country businessmen always keep some connections(both govt as well as legal) ready to escape in a hurry.His escape might be govt's fault but at least they submitted official request for his extradition to UK unlike others where even that might have taken years.

4.See point 1.

You are free to consider Modi as corrupt but based on facts alone I say he is less corrupt that former PM Manmohan Singh who I also believe didn't took a single rupee as bribe but by his inaction allowed scams to happen which in my opinion is also a form of corruption.

P.S.Here is a trick question for all of you here.How many of you think I support Modi or for that matter BJP?If I get good enough responses I might surprise you.:)
 

sling-shot

Wise Old Owl
Excellent point there about the 500 Cr wedding. Why do we assume that somebody spending money is always of illgotten nature? Why does anybody earn money if not to spend, donate or bequeath ultimately.

The amount would differ according to the status of the individual. What would be a second's earning of Ambani is probably only what I would earn in my lifetime. That doesn't automatically make Ambani a fraud and me the ultimate truthful.
 

gadgetssai

Right off the assembly line
in my opinion 2000 rupee notes is not the right solution for this corruption and blackmoney issues...
recently i watch a show which mainly focus on 22 business persons who take loan from banks more than 2000 crores and that bank withdraw their loan
in our case if one farmer takes a loan of 1lakh is that bank withdraw of his loan not right,... so, this is the not right solution for black money
 

whitestar_999

Super Moderator
Staff member
I like your optimism.:) that's it.

Now this is for everyone
I wonder what this pm is trying to cover behind all this gimmick. Generally these type of things are done by politicians to cover their mistakes & divert the peoples attention to somewhere else. Is he trying to make reliance more rich by supplying more black money? Is he trying to hide that reliance is the real pm of india?
Is he trying to make his party stronger by eliminating black monies from other parties? Is he trying to cover his videsh yatra/foreign tour expenses? what?

1.Reliance is publicly listed company on stock exchange which means it is nearly impossible to "make it rich" secretly.I still don't get the people's obsession with reliance,it is not even that big if compared to India's total economy or or other major companies around the world(Apple's yearly revenue is 50 times of Reliance's).In fact it is laughable to assume that Reliance,or for that matter any Indian company,can dictate its terms to politicians in India which goes against people's sentiments at large.

2.If black money is eliminated as fund source for other parties,isn't that a good thing.As for his foreign travel expenses, again why this obsession with his travels.It is not like he is partying there.Even half an hour talk with president/PM of a small country is worth more than the expenses incurred on the travel,any seasoned diplomat would tell you that.
 

kg11sgbg

Indian Railways - The Vibrant and Moving INDIA
One thing for sure.
Everybody has his/her own way of freedom of speech and expression,but based on sound facts and logic.Yes as a member of this forum,you could well argue or put your opinion against a moderator,because mods are not Gods.
Still as responsible and sound knowledge + logic based minds of the @TDF mods,one should not oppose just for the sake of opposing one's ideas or views.Even comments represented by mods have mistakes or unknown info to them.But when most of them argue or try to hold up a point,there's a lot of background study and thoughts of rationality present.
Our Friend , [MENTION=126812]whitestar_999[/MENTION] has clearly and subjectively clarified all the points with deep understanding for not only to himself,but also to all of us the forum members. Never in his explanation he justified or forcibly insisted to support Mr. Modi our H'nble PM.That is the prerogative of one's own PERSONAL freedom and choice.
So,before jumping to insane comments and conclusions, with a label of accusation accompanied by illogical ,ill studied facts,its time for proper reminiscing one's own knowledge or be a knowledgeable spectator/observer to absorb the views of everybody.
 

ithehappy

Human Spambot
I love this decision. Had spent around 2 hours in last three days to withdraw my own money, but just to see cash going out at last moment. After working hard for like 10 hours this is what I really want to do.

Actually some people need to stay true to their actual profession, like selling tea or cleaning toilets in trains. And in the meantime those who have illegal money are actually not going to laughing clubs any more.
 
D

Deleted member 118788

Guest
[MENTION=126812]whitestar_999[/MENTION]: I will surely come back to you with my counter questions to your answers.

From the reports, I'm getting it is evident that most people with black money [cash] were able to adjust them successfully. People will lose some percentage of black money but that won't be returned to the system and also won't affect the net worth of any black money hoarders.

But there is one major consequence/issue which I bet Government didn't planned carefully for. Job Cuts and Low direct tax receivables. In a week, 2 Lakh Gold workers have been fired from their job out of the total 12 Lakh gold workers who work in Mumbai. Most of them have went back to their village and most of these workers are from Kolkata and Rajasthan. Issue is that these guys are paid daily wages and if this situation prolongs they will suffer terribly. These guys don't having savings or low savings. If they stays without work for even 3 months then you can't just imagine what will happen to their livelihood. Another major thing is that all luxury segments and consumer business segments have been badly affected. Car sales have stopped. Just think how much low income they are going to report in this quarter and the coming quarter. Low income will result in low payment of taxes to the government by these companies. That amount will likely be more than they will recover from this scheme. FIIs selling in the equities market is going at a rapid pace due to uncertainties of our Economy. You can get the figures from BSE/NSE website. At personal level, I feel this move is going to affect our economy badly and may put us 1-2 year back. People thinking that this move will curb all fake currencies should just wait a little as it don't take long in today's technology efficient world to print new fake currencies. Fake currency is a big business for Pakistan and they won't just sit. In the end, poor will suffer and that you can already see that.
 

kg11sgbg

Indian Railways - The Vibrant and Moving INDIA
^Your facts and ideas are supportive and laudable,by going in through the points.
But Friend,do we really care about the downtrodden in this very selfish world?What am I doing or what are you doing for the respite of the hapless and hopeless people even if that's a little bit of help in any way???
In the present scenario,we suffer variably as according to positions and echelons in this society, as per our income status,wealth,background,livelihood and knowledge.And at the end of the day,we take a cup of Tea/Coffee/Beverage or smoke with our cigars,storming with ideas/opinion/likes/dislikes/support/faith/disbelief/against ,the government,bureaucracy,politicians,police,in a whole way the SYSTEM.That too within a comfort zone,be it in Home or Office or Club or Hostel,wherever we dwell.
But are we doing a bit for the lone Farmer in one remote corner village in India,or are we going to look at the daily activities of the daily-waged based worker,those of whom are facing more hardships in this demonetarisation process than us?

Remember, most of us suffered and witnessed 2 years back regarding the fiasco on LPG+KYC link up with Banks+ Subsidy limitations. I VERY WELL KNOW THAT ALL PEOPLE WERE NOT AFFECTED,BUT STILL A SUBSTANTIAL PART OF POPULACE HAD TO BEAR WITH THE HARDSHIPS.
What is the present scenario???
Even majority of people left out of this LPG subsidy and availability are bought within the ambit of the system. Due to uber rich or also middle class people those of whom abused the LPG subsidy system previously,had to surrender(most of them may not be all) and that has made the deprived populace(those who could bear the price)available for a LPG cylinder at most.Mainly in Rural India.
Nowadays regarding LPG system,it is nearly fully accountable and full proof system,baring some glitches,WHICH USED TO BE MAJOR ISSUES BEFORE THE SYSTEM CAME INTO PRACTICE.

So,Bro why not have hope with the demonetarisation scheme that has been implemented?

You have every right to argue or oppose your views regarding the functioning of the present Govt.,but taking an argument into a personal level with a mindset of challenge and behaving as a pseudo secular,pseudo pro-poor, tantamounts to an act of misrepresentation and misjudgement along with an extremely one sided prejudiced/biased based thoughts on events and facts.

p.s. Don't take it personal.
 

ithehappy

Human Spambot
I just have one question. Them people who have illegal/black money, how will this decision affect them in any way? I mean do they keep cash of 500 and 1000 rupee notes? I never did get this at first place!
 

Nerevarine

Incarnate
I just have one question. Them people who have illegal/black money, how will this decision affect them in any way? I mean do they keep cash of 500 and 1000 rupee notes? I never did get this at first place!

those people that hide money on their own, do not reveal it to the income tax department.
Therefore, they do not pay tax on their assets.
 
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