Is there any worth to National pride?

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Desmond

Desmond

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What do you think @Desmond
After going through it and I still stand by what I believe. But I guess your opinion will be formed of what sort of personality or mindset you have. I guess you need a healthy dose of nihilism to see things my way, but not everybody has that kind of outlook on life which is understandable.

Though before I comment on what your friends said I must say a lot of it is not written very well, which makes is hard to understand (or easy to misunderstand) what they are trying to say.

Another factor to take into consideration is confirmation bias.

From Wikipedia:
Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.[1] People display this bias when they select information that supports their views, ignoring contrary information, or when they interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing attitudes. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs. Confirmation bias cannot be eliminated entirely, but it can be managed, for example, by education and training in critical thinking skills.
Now confirmation bias is not a bad thing since it also factors into learning things and forming habits but it can also manifest negatively such as bigotry, belief in pseudo-science, etc. It can only be reduced by critical thinking.

Because of this, I am usually very skeptical of other people's opinions because it's hard to say whether their opinions are based on what they have learned from childhood or if its a logical conclusion.

if we close the gap what pride for then i believe the pride term its for survability. the people that dont hav pride mostly cant survive. is like living in passion.
I don't agree. To survive you need water, oxygen, food, clothes and shelter. Everything beyond that is luxury (see the quote in my signature). Perhaps they mean that you need to confirm to society's standards by showing national pride (it's actually not clear if they are speaking about national pride or not, I am assuming they are) or risk ostracism. But this is no longer true in a modern society. Modern society is heavily geared towards individual freedom (even in India). To survive in a modern society you only need a job to pay for everything you need, everything else is superfluous. You don't need to have pride in your job, it's a means to an end, it's the same I think about national pride, you don't need it. Pay your taxes, don't do any crime and you have paid your dues to the state.

example a kid born in slave system (aka ancient time) is a kid pride to be slave? if so then the kid become gud slave if not, is the kid pride to be alive? if so maybe want to become free man then the kid fight back to proud of him as human. if not then the kid become desperate or kill self.
then a gap to family. are we proud to be in this family if so then mostly we want to safe the family til die. if not we can just ditch the family let them astray or we become astray. :comfyExcited:
This whole block does not seem relevant to national pride. It does speak about individual pride which I have nothing against. I don't know what gap means in this case (or the previous block) but I assume it means lack of pride. But then again, I have nothing against pride in your family either but again it's all circumstantial, whether there are abusive parents etc.

it same as family bigger aka country / race. but there more political about it. there a war bettween globalist and nationalist. in aspect proudness the nationalist sure love their country survivable like their citizen to get more wealth. when globalist they not stric to country but they stil want to proud exist as family / individual / grub. afterall its gud thing to proud as self/group/country cause all for survival. imagine if president / king in the country not proud of his citizent or all citizent not proud of his county what will become? then a war has startet
I would never compare individual pride with national pride because, going by the example this person has given, you do not know every single person in the nation (country). When you speak about national pride, you are generally speaking about abstract things like culture, taste of food, etc. all of these are acquired tastes: Confirmation bias. Again, I am not sure they person is using the term "survival" correctly. The rest of the post does not seem relevant and I don't understand why they would say that a war will start when people don't have pride in their country.

another sample for patriot. when u come to other country and at that time u hungry eating a local food there. but.. shit this dish not for me better my country dish. then he open his country restaurant in that country. <- this one of patriot thinking. what a globalist think is? maybe when he eat that lokal food there. hmm its gud but maybe something missing like flavour. then he fuse it to taste better for his country and the country he visits to get more audience aka globalist market.
This whole block is not really relevant. What they are calling pride is actually confirmation bias. You tend to like Indian food because you have been eating similar food since childhood and that forms a framework in your mind that this is how food should be, so when you encounter some food that does not confirm to this pre-existing belief of, your mind will literally reject it. That being said, any Indians who live abroad will develop a taste for the local food after 1-2 generations. Still, food taste is a very personal thing and I would not equate it to the nation at large.

Whether you like it or not, you being a being born in a country makes it a part of your identity, because that is how humans have always worked. No matter how little or how big you being born in a country implies that the country has helped you in some way or the other, whether it being supplying you with infrastructure or culture or just something that the government gives you that you are taking for granted.
Agreed, but I don't see how this is relevant.

Every country has their own standard of living, but it does help you in some way. It is easy to say that you don't need to give shit about your country or quote Einstein about his opinion on nationalism while ignoring that
Which quote? I have searched Einstein's quotes about nationalism and there seem to be many, I don't know which one in particular they are referring to.

we have not evolved enough to be a globalist and think everyone is equal
Lol. Why not?

cause in reality people will treat you as an indian in the end, whether you like it or not. you will never be just another human being to some one from a different country. Being proud of your county/origin will help you deal with some shit that is otherwise very hard to do so.
I am not sure what they mean by the last line? Do they mean that Indians will face racism abroad or something and having national pride will somehow overcome that?

i am not saying that extreme nationalism is corect either. but if you don't care for people of your country there will be very few people who will care for you
I somewhat agree. But people outside of your family and friends by and large don't care much about you in general.

if you keep disassociating with others, where does it end, you can go ahead and ask whats the point of having states, whats the point of a family even it's just a bunch of random people who are there just cause 2 retards decided to have sex
States are for ease of administration. It's only coincidental that each state in India has a distinct culture. As for family, there is really no point but society frowns on children born out of wedlock.

if you keep going into that hole it wil never end, and once you stop caring about others you will stop caring about yourself. Living a lonely self loathing life is not fun at all.
So, the reason for a family structure/ a country to exist is just to give an immediate reason for some people to feel some kind of association with a random stranger. It gives them a little reason to care about the other person
Again not relevant to the topic of national pride. A strawman argument actually. They are implying that by having no national pride, somehow you become an isolated, self-loathing individual. The rest if just repeating what's already been said. My stand is just the same, you don't need to have pride to live. Also, it does not affect your identity. Having less pride in your country/nation does not make you less of an Indian. In fact I'd say I am more Indian than some nationalists.

You can but having the concept of a place you belong to makes it easier

It's never wrong to be proud of where you are from. That's the only way you will make your surroundings better. Cause if you don't care about it you wouldn't care about helping people living with you
I agree somewhat. I never said that it's wrong, just that it's pointless. If feeling pride in your country makes you get through your day, that is your prerogative.
 

K_akash_i

Journeyman
Our national anthem is written by Tagore who considered the world as one,So if u look deep enough u'd find him an internationalist who was critical of nationalism(although i'd suggest people should look upon his ideals rather than just reading these two lines.maybe u'd have a clearer interpretation than mine)
nationalism is more of a politically exploited term used for gains now
 

Pranay Mokida

Journeyman
Good Argument @Desmond After Seeing their text , I was confused too . But then their conclusion made some sense about there is nothing being wrong to take pride . So I ran into you , but you cleared my confusion . Thanks :-D
 

Pranay Mokida

Journeyman
I think the concept of Patriotism works only with respect to frame of reference . Its more of a psychological feeling than anything .If a giant monster was to invade in a forest , different types of tribes in the forest would unite and fight back the monster .On the other hand , If some stranger were to join a tribe community they would suspect danger in terms of survival instinct and wouldn't trust him/her .I don't find any patriotism in my University itself , there would be huge differences between south indians / north indians , Yet most of them claim they are patriots . You will hardly find both of the groups in a community . But if pakistani too were there , then Im sure the difference such as North/South Indian would fade away and become Pakistani / Indian .
This was my old argument xD
 

Anorion

Sith Lord
Staff member
Admin
this one is pretty balanced
It's better to be careful here about exactly how proud to be of traditions, customs, the land, languages, and the systems rather than clump them all together in some kind of misdirected attachment or inertia against change, and stifle any of them from evolving.
Like I'm really proud of my cable operator too, but only to an extent.
 
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Pranay Mokida

Journeyman
@Anorion Before @Desmond 's argument I kinda fell like there was something they were trying to convey which I didn't really understand . And the last block of text made some sense so I thought its may be afterall good to have pride in one's nation .

But after his argument I came to conclusion that TLDR and rushing into conclusion is a bad idea . :smile:
 

Anorion

Sith Lord
Staff member
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If I were to try and guess, I think the argument is actually unitarism vs pluralism

In this case I would like to see it play out, because it is a process. This is important, maybe it is the country going through psychopolitical load shedding. If you want to understand the roots of everything that made us think we are a country, I suggest this book > Sources of Indian Traditions.

It covers entire subcontinent. No man can be safe while his neighbor's house burns. I also think of it in a new way now. Ever since the digital revolution started, we take pride in our virtual tribes. We should lean into that, these imaginary villages are the fortresses of the future. :D
 
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Anorion

Sith Lord
Staff member
Admin
Listen @Dexterminator what you are doing is very important, go out, listen to people, document their views! I used to do this kind of thing
Having a dialogue is paramount
Im just glad that you have friends who are willing to talk and engage, instead of just being "it's us or them."
 

Pranay Mokida

Journeyman
Listen @Dexterminator what you are doing is very important, go out, listen to people, document their views! I used to do this kind of thing
Having a dialogue is paramount
Im just glad that you have friends who are willing to talk and engage, instead of just being "it's us or them."

I totally got what you meant , in case of me , I try to engage in conversations as much as I can . I feel like I learn a lot from conversations and pick new perspectives all the time . Looking back 4 years and comparing myself , I am no longer the person I was back then . It's mostly the conversations that helped me to pick new music , books , movies .... etc . People around me in real life (hometown) are mostly dumb dumbs , so I have a couple of friends from my University and I mostly talk to online people .

But , that was so dammn cool to listen from you , thanks . Will keep this post pinned on to my notes . :smile:
 
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