fanATIcs vs NVidiots

Discussion in 'Graphic cards' started by plasmafire, Sep 23, 2004.

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  1. plasmafire

    plasmafire New Member

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    1) why is it that in terms of raw power ATI cards are better, but NV cards perform better on games(cards in same price range)?
    2)why do games look better on ATI cards?
    3)If NV is cheating..can't ATI say so..they are not babies??let them come out with a huge AD saying so..
     
  2. alib_i

    alib_i New Member

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    very good title for topic
     
  3. gxsaurav

    gxsaurav Guest

    Making the driver efficient by running a shader or code, is not cheating, it can be infact stated as eficiency incresing, I don't mind any compony doint it, weather NVIDIA ATI Matrox or S3, they have the rite to convert the shader in such a way that it will run best in their card

    Even I don't mind enabling optimisations as long as I m getting Good quality
     
  4. OP
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    plasmafire

    plasmafire New Member

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    I never said NV is cheating.. i said the opposite..(If it is..ATi shud have given proof)

    Lemme see if this post makes itself a sticky.. waiting 4 ATI supporters..
     
  5. gxsaurav

    gxsaurav Guest

    ATI supporters will never come, they don't belive that ATI Is optimizing which is already proved
     
  6. gamefreak14

    gamefreak14 New Member

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    Because most manufacturers support Nvidia (mostly taiwanese). Nvidia cards are lighter on the wallet for those who want a good performance to price ratio. ATI on the other hand is mad about fps without taking price into consideration. Its for those geeks who boast about 100+ fps when they forget that our eyes cannot distinguish the difference between 50 or 100 fps. They don't know and care about "persistence of vision".
    Thats because ATI cards support very high FSAA by default when Nvidia has to be specifically tweaked to get the same level of FSAA. Anyway, I'm not so sure of this.
    Thats because ATIs drivers are very buggy compared to Nvidia which are rock solid. Secondly ATI make specific optimizations for certain games in their drivers. I don't think Nvidia does that. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

    DISCLAIMER: I'm not an NvIdiot. I have owned 3 geforce cards(right now a geforce FX 5200). All these cards gave me good bang for the buck. If ATI could do that, I'll buy one any day. Btw, the best card to buy now is the Geforce 6800 plain at just 200$. I don't think ATI has anything in that price range.
    [/quote]
     
  7. gxsaurav

    gxsaurav Guest

    taken from my other thread

    Keeping this in mind, tell me what U want, when both the card ATI or NVIDIA will work same
     
  8. gamefreak14

    gamefreak14 New Member

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    GX, isn't that the case when Vsync option is enabled? I've played soldier of fortune 2 at over 100 fps..When my refresh rate is 85Hz.
     
  9. ujjwal

    ujjwal New Member

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    Very surprised to see no ATI supporters ... anyway, as far as I am concerned, I don't give a damn about ATi or nVidia (I infact wish that a lot more companies come into competition). But about graphics cards, the main thing is future proofness. A card cannot be called better if it can churn out high fps in games which would anyway run well on all current cards ... so I always hold that there is no point buying a "high-end" graphics card ever, as it anyway will not be much better than the value cards after some time.
     
  10. crackshot

    crackshot New Member

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    certainly u can c it clearly just by comparing nVidia Geforce 6800 GT with ATi Radeon X800XT PE. The latter is about rs10000 more costly but gets beaten out in terms of performance and future proofness
     
  11. gxsaurav

    gxsaurav Guest

    Your refresh rate was 85 Hz, but that was not forced by DX, or U must be benchmarking, by default games run at 60hz, if V-Sync is disbaled only then U will get 100 fps in gameplay, doom3 is capped at 60 fps, so when playing gams I never go above 60 fps, but when benchmarking at some places I get 80 fps, in both cases 85 hz is forced
     
  12. anidex

    anidex New Member

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    First of all, let me clear up some things.

    1. Generally, ATI cards of one class are much cheaper than their nVIDIA counterparts. It's about time to get rid of the old Indian myth that nVIDIA cards are cheaper. Eg:- The Radeon 9600 XT costs about 9000 bucks, whereas the GeForce FX 5700 Ultra costs about 14,000 bucks.

    2. nVIDIA's drivers are far buggier than ATI's. The reverse was true only until the new Catalyst series. ATI's drivers these days are rock solid and much better than nVIDIA's. Plus, ATI releases new drivers every 27 days. That way you know when you'll get your new drivers to fix any remanant bugs.

    3. nVIDIA has been caught with its hand in the cookie jar many times. Starting with 3DMark to the latest Doom 3, nVIDIA has done everything from app detection to introducing clipping planes (to reduce workload), from using partial precision (when asked to do otherwise) to shader replacements. This is CHEATING. nVIDIA knows it, ATI knows it, the whole world knows it. nVIDIA doesn't accept it, ATI rants on about it, nVIDIOTS deny it (without realising that they're fooling themselves) and fanATIcs enjoy pointing their fingers at it :lol:!

    Who the hell is nVIDIA or ATI to determine how a particular shader should be executed? Only the developer and the gamer have the right to determine how their gaming experience should be. Sadly, a lot of nVIDIOTs don't seem to realize this fact.
     
  13. anidex

    anidex New Member

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    Unfortunately for you, the 6800 ain't futureproof at all. Despite nVIDIA's claims that the NV4x series can run 64K instructions, their current driver only supports 4096 instructions. Plus, it doesn't support fp32 filtering and blending operations, so that again isn't future proof. The NV4x series doesn't support a lot of features including programmable tessellation and higher order surfaces. In reality, despite what nVIDIA's PR claims, the NV4x is no more futureproof than ATI's R4xx series. The funny thing is that it took nVIDIA 2 years extra to get to the current level, whereas ATI did it (better) with 2 year old technology :lol:!
     
  14. gxsaurav

    gxsaurav Guest

    So U r here, again starting NVIDIA vs ATI, lets see a few thing from my last post,

    1) ATI drivers are better, well U may have Cable net or broadband, but rest of 90% india is on dialup, so what is better to download, 12 MB NVIDIA driver or 75 MB ATI driver

    2) Their is a big difference between cheating & optimisizng, learn it

    3)a Radeon 9600 nonPro, here costs about Rs 6k, Pro version from Gigabyte costs 9.9K, while FX5700 Ultra costs about 10.8 k from MSI,now how much is the difference only Rs 600, oh! & 5700 Ultra was made to beat Radeon 9600XT, not nonPro, for that we have 5700nU

    4) Tell me a bug U have seen with NVIDIA drivers, ask me a bug I have seen with ATI drivers, Catalyst 4.8 & Firefox .8/.9 no go

    5) Shader replacement, well, perhaps U can explain the F buffer & Temporal filtring which is done in the games on the fly
     
  15. anidex

    anidex New Member

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    For once, stop talking out of your arse and start thinking with your head.

    1. If you'd kindly move your butt to the ATI site, you'll see that the download is about 42 MB, if you don't have CCC. Otherwise, it's only about 26 MB. If you have a dialup connection, you can simply download the driver from the partitioned download ssection (since the control panel is already present), which is about 8 MB.

    2. You learn the difference. Seem's like you're still living in that fool's paradise... :lol:!

    3. Dude, the Club 3D Radeon 9600 XT (with blade_runner bought) costs only 9K. Anyway, since my Radeon 9600 PRO kicks the sh*t out of your FX 5900 XT, the FX 5700 Ultra doesn't stand a chance.

    4. Why don't we start with all the cheats and replacements and stuff like that.

    5. Talking out of your backside again. F-Buffer simply allows the use of longer shaders. Temporal anti-aliasing uses temporal coherence to deliver twice the quality as normal anti-aliasing with no performance hit. Basically, with 6X TFSAA, you get the quality of 12x FSAA without a performance hit. So, you're contradicting yourself :lol:!
     
  16. tarey_g

    tarey_g Hanging, since 2004..

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  17. gamefreak14

    gamefreak14 New Member

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    @Anidex, first of all plz tone down your language. Getting passionate about ATI is one thing, getting angry for someone not endorsing your views is childish.
    Second, you haven't got my point when I said that ATI cards don't come cheap. You are talking of high end cards such as ATI 9800 series when comparing prices. I don't think that many people in India really buy 8000+ Re cards. ATI is not interested in fulfilling the demands of the 'average' gamer. Here 'average' describes those who want to play any game in the market @ 800 X 600 res. All these years, whenever I wanted a card at below 3 grand, there was always the trusty Nvidia. I have enquired about Radeons time and again and I was told I'd have to spend around double that amount for such a card. I have to agree with you that ATI squashes Nvidia when it comes to cards which beat the FX 5950 fair and square. But they are a niche segment. The majority of SE Asia all depend on cheaper Nvidia cards. That's why the FX 5200 series is a huge hit. That's also why theres a 'meant to be played on an Nvidia' logo on most games these days.
    I'd quoted earlier about the Geforce 6800. I don't plan to buy it @ 200$. I will buy it in around six - eight months when it goes down to 70$. I'm quite sure that like always, there won't be an ATI at that price range even then.
     
  18. OP
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    plasmafire

    plasmafire New Member

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    XFX GF fx 5700 pure = rs. 7200
    rad 9600 pro= rs. 9000

    i fixed both these cards 2 my machine.. farcry,DX invisible war. ran better on FX with x'actly same settings(more fps)

    but, the game looked much better and richer in contrast,color,edges..in radeon..

    WHY?
     
  19. icecoolz

    icecoolz Active Member

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  20. gxsaurav

    gxsaurav Guest

    Anidex, U like Radeon, fine Keep it, we don't like it

    Here in the market we have, ASUS , MSI, gIgabyte, although they all make both Radeons & GeForce, but previously they didn't support ATI, care to tell me Y, just explaing the simple marketing reason??

    Oh! & the driver, look again, soon the old control panel will be discontinued, 42 MB for Driver + Control Panel, with 23 MB for .net runtime with 10 MB .net runtime 1.1 SP1 = 74 MB

    This is india, many people are still happy with onboard Intel Graphics, they can't spend Rs 10k for gaming, well, U may have a lot of money to waste on a high end GFX card, but certenly, I don't, & many of us other don't

    Take a look at the above benchmarks, where is ATI winning, oh! & by the way, how many features does ATI cards support which are implemented in the games, industry support the features NVIDIA supports, only a few games support ATI features, but they also support all the features of NVIDIA, prime example, Half Life 2, ATI's own, So X800 beats 6800 in that (according to U), well, U said to me earlier that PS3.0 is not required as there are no games, but U do coding in DX na, tell me , if there is no hardware to make PS3.0 games, then how can the games ever come, the thing is ATI PS2.0 architecture is good, but their R500 will again fail. They are saying everyone, not to make games in PS3.0 as it is not required, they are lieing, cos they don't want games to come, which doesn't support their Hardware, & Half Life 2, even that supports PS3.0, now if NVIDIA hardwre is that bad, & PS3.0 is not required, then Y do we have, 18 games upcoming supporting PS3.0, & more are being added to this list everyday

    6800 isn't future proof, well, lets see, MS has already released the DX9c , now their is only PS3.0 and ATI X800 is PS2.0, what do U think is Future proof, stick to the old technology cos ATI wants U to, take a look at the sales at newegg, if they sale 20 Gfx cards, then 15 are 6800 & 5 are X800, now U will say that all the world has gone mad, & NVIDIA is bribing them

    Now coming to the Marketing part, NVIDIA is far better then ATI when it comes to marketing, ask me, I was an fanATIc like U before, I struggled a lot to get my hands on Radeon 9600 Pro from Gigabyte, I had to wait 2 months for it to come, reason, Asus, MSI, Gigabyte & all other major brands available in India, were selling NVIDIA cards only, cos they capture a big market, NVIDIA had GeForce FX 5200 non Ultra here in India for Rs 3k, which is even longhorn Certified, how many are out there who owns a killer rig, When I ordered for FX5900XT, in only 14 days, it was at my home, NVIDIA had a DX9 card for under Rs 3.5k, while for Rs 3.5 k there is no ATI card supporting DX9

    & tempral antiallising, U got it all worng, I read an article ATI explaning it, basically is filter at lower AA level & then finds the diference between higher then thi s & thsi, & the calculate the difference & shows it only, now is this cheating or optimisation,

    ATI cards use non Standerd way of running a shader, NVIDIA cards are better when it comes to AA but ATI has an edge when it comes to Anistropic filtering, I admit that, but this is only one thing better then NVIDIA while all the other 99% things are favoring NVIDIA,

    In the last statement, enough of this ATI vs NVIDIA threads on this forum, Raboo close it, or ANIDEX will come to my home, Point a gun at my head & force me to buy a X800XT, even if it costs 3 times the price of my current Rig & not available, he will brake my FX just cos he don't like it, oh! & by the way, ANIDEX, U will always remain a coder, tell me what good is a product if U don't capture a market
     
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