A Distro for Indian Schools

[MetalheadGautham]

Hi Guys!

I am on a project to build the perfect distro for common Indian schools with low end computers as an educational tool. I need the distro to fulfill the following needs:

1. Be able to teach anyone about the internals of computing

2. Have an easy to learn commandline mode

3. Be easy to manage by a single administrator who handles 20 systems

4. Run on light systems - meaning 2GHz P4 or 2.4GHz celerons or even lower, with 256MB of DDR1 333MHz RAM and monitors similar to Samsung Samatron 15".

5. Comfortably intorduce kids to computing at an early age and get them hooked on to linux

6. Be able to last on the same configuration for a few years

7. Run Turbo C++ 3.0 on Wine

8. Run OpenOffice.org, while not running anything else

I am doing this for the Jawaharlal Nehru Science Exibition 2008 under the category "Educational Technology". Last year I made it to the nationals, and this year I hope to do something similar or better, since its my last year at school and I want to return something to the set of institutions which made me what I am.

I have time to decide on the config till today 6.30AM and download and set it up and create a Live DVD or HDD Image.

I have a 5400RPM 40GB IDE HDD, of which I intend to use not more than 20GB.

I have been thinking of Arch Linux and Zenwalk. What do you say guys ?

I am thinking of making two versions, one with arch and IceDE, my own basic idea of a DE based on IceWM which has basic easy to use apps like Sea Monkey, EmelFM, DFM, irssi, nano, xine, etc.

The second will be a full fledged Xfce environment with Educational Apps like Celestina, Stellarium, Periodic Tabe Of Elements, other misc educational tools, OpenOffice.org, etc.

So I am considering arch for the former and zen for the later. I plan to showcase only the former for the first round on the comming saturday (I am sure that, with the current competition level, and my influence, this is more than enough to pass and make it to regionals).

Please suggest me good configurations for both. And I also need some good free encyclopedias for offline browsing I can use. I remember NucleusKore offering something for sale which was an abriged wikipedia. Can I get something like that ?

PS: would it be a good idea to include an Impress based presentation as a part of this project ?

 

[Rahim]

Best of luck gautham and is this the distro you promised?

 

[MetalheadGautham]

Best of luck gautham and is this the distro you promised?

yes
originally intended to be a multimedia OS, this was in the plans for a loooong loooong time.

But for several obvious reasons, I can't release it till the competition is over.

 

[mehulved]

Hi Guys!

I am on a project to build the perfect distro for common Indian schools with low end computers as an educational tool.

Start by looking at this thread - *mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/linuxers/Week-of-Mon-20080721/064207.html

1. Be able to teach anyone about the internals of computing

Define your target audience.

2. Have an easy to learn commandline mode

Well this is always a very subjective term.

3. Be easy to manage by a single administrator who handles 20 systems

Then go with a debian based or red hat based system, suse and mandriva will be good choices too but my experiene with them is limited so cannot say how will it adapt to such needs. Probably people on Pune Linux Users Group can answer the Mandriva part cos there is quite some number of Mandriva users there.

4. Run on light systems - meaning 2GHz P4 or 2.4GHz celerons or even lower, with 256MB of DDR1 333MHz RAM and monitors similar to Samsung Samatron 15".

This isn't very much distro specific but more dependant on the window manager/desktop environment.

6. Be able to last on the same configuration for a few years

Hmm?

7. Run Turbo C++ 3.0 on Wine

TC++ 3.0 isn't a win32 application, it's a DOS based application. Even on Vista people use DOSbox for the same.

8. Run OpenOffice.org, while not running anything else

Not running anything else?

I have been thinking of Arch Linux and Zenwalk. What do you say guys ?

Will you be able to satisfy point 3 here?

I am thinking of making two versions, one with arch and IceDE, my own basic idea of a DE based on IceWM which has basic easy to use apps like Sea Monkey, EmelFM, DFM, irssi, nano, xine, etc.

Don't forget geany

So I am considering arch for the former and zen for the later.

Are you sure you will be able to handle mass deployment of Zenwalk? I didnt' feel it too comfortable for such a purpose.

And I also need some good free encyclopedias for offline browsing I can use. I remember NucleusKore offering something for sale which was an abriged wikipedia. Can I get something like that ?

Get a wikipedia dump and run a local mediawiki.

PS: would it be a good idea to include an Impress based presentation as a part of this project ?

Why not?

 

[humanbeing]

already it@school ,a debian based distro is used in kerala schools

 

[MetalheadGautham]

Start by looking at this thread - *mm.gnu.org.in/pipermail/linuxers/Week-of-Mon-20080721/064207.html

Define your target audience.

Students from age 11 to 18, the standard lot you find here in India.

Then go with a debian based or red hat based system, suse and mandriva will be good choices too but my experiene with them is limited so cannot say how will it adapt to such needs. Probably people on Pune Linux Users Group can answer the Mandriva part cos there is quite some number of Mandriva users there.

Why those ? I was thinking of Arch or Debian, but at the moment Debian seems ruled out since debian Lenny's Successor is not yet out. So is Arch alright ? I think it must be quite easy to manage since editing of text files is all that is involved, and these files can be copied and duplicated on multiple systems via scripts.

Don't forget geany

Whats it ?

Are you sure you will be able to handle mass deployment of Zenwalk? I didnt' feel it too comfortable for such a purpose.

Yup. Zenwalk has a horrible Live Mode, and I just confirmed that in the past hour. So unfortunately that too gets ruled out. Vector is a big question mark, but I think it might be an option. Any other choice ? I don't want to put in something with loads of updates like Sidux since deployment might take place in areas where internet is a bit expensive.

Get a wikipedia dump and run a local mediawiki.

No. This is different. Apparently its some kind of abridged wikipedia collection with only select articles exclusively chosen for school kids. Its 1.3GB in size from what I remember of the torrent. I think it would make a perfect alternative for these Pirated MS Encarta copies I see in most schools. Only NucleusKore can shed some light here I guess.

TC++ 3.0 isn't a win32 application, it's a DOS based application. Even on Vista people use DOSbox for the same.

woops. forgot. then I guess I need to use a common dos emulator for linux.

This isn't very much distro specific but more dependant on the window manager/desktop environment.

you mean to say that even if I install Ubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04.1 on my desktop, but choose to use IceWM instead of standard Gnome/KDE/Xfce, I can expect speed boosts to arch like levels ?

Well this is always a very subjective term.

I have seen people taking about a week to get used to DOS the first time they are introduced to it.

Why not?

takes time...

Hmm?

The system needs to last, without the need of upgrades, for a few years. Meaning that it must not get obsoleted for the distro in too short a span of time. Unfortunately, I need to make "easy to use distro", read HEAVY, a "light distro", read HARD. I am hoping it won't be much difficult. I have done wierder things.

Will you be able to satisfy point 3 here?

I hope so. Linux administrators have not been known to be the dumbest of the lot.

Not running anything else?

Since OOo is a heavy app, I said running it in unitasking mode. Perhaps with a website or two open in browser but not anything more.

already it@school ,a debian based distro is used in kerala schools

I know it exists. I am looking for something better, that too one which is based on a lighter platform. Thats why I was considering Zenwalk and Arch.

 

[humanbeing]

for borland TC++ like looks ,try a CLI client called "motor" available for Linux

 

[MetalheadGautham]

for borland TC++ like looks ,try a CLI client called "motor" available for Linux

Its not looks that are important. the problem here is that the syllabus has Borland TC++ based programming, which does not follow ISO standards like G++. Thats an entirely different topic, so I am leaving it.

 

[FilledVoid]

A couple of recommendations. These are kids and parents that usually come for Exhibitions. You don't want to restrict children to just studies. You should show them that they could have fun on a Linux Based Machine. Probably a Win game on Wine or a native game on Linux . Remember don't make it a Arcade demo. Cause you will need a crowbar to pry the keyboard away from them .

All the stuff you mentioned is cool . Also try to include Google Earth Maybe , KStar and other educational software. You can refer to the Edubuntu distro for further choices. Also If you want to restrict he title to Indian Schools then add something to culturally link it to India because I don't see why it should be a distro for Indian Schools. Maybe include Language Packs and other Cultural stuff I guess.

Just my two cents.

 

[mehulved]

Students from age 11 to 18, the standard lot you find here in India.

Then don't rush to show CLI and features, first make them aware of the basic stuff that they normally use.

Why those ? I was thinking of Arch or Debian, but at the moment Debian seems ruled out since debian Lenny's Successor is not yet out. So is Arch alright ? I think it must be quite easy to manage since editing of text files is all that is involved, and these files can be copied and duplicated on multiple systems via scripts.

Well arch, gentoo, crux, etc require too much configuration, so don't opt for them unless you're familiar with some advanced stuff.

Whats it ?

A nice text editor + IDE. Just give it a dekko, you'll surely like it.

Yup. Zenwalk has a horrible Live Mode, and I just confirmed that in the past hour. So unfortunately that too gets ruled out. Vector is a big question mark, but I think it might be an option. Any other choice ? I don't want to put in something with loads of updates like Sidux since deployment might take place in areas where internet is a bit expensive.

Give CentOS a spin, with some usage WM

No. This is different. Apparently its some kind of abridged wikipedia collection with only select articles exclusively chosen for school kids. Its 1.3GB in size from what I remember of the torrent. I think it would make a perfect alternative for these Pirated MS Encarta copies I see in most schools. Only NucleusKore can shed some light here I guess.

Yes, but if you have one powerful machine, you can have a nice local wikipeida collection.

woops. forgot. then I guess I need to use a common dos emulator for linux.

dosbox works on linux, it is open source.

you mean to say that even if I install Ubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04.1 on my desktop, but choose to use IceWM instead of standard Gnome/KDE/Xfce, I can expect speed boosts to arch like levels ?

More of less. The difference will be hardly noticable. I run ubuntu in VM, with fluxbox as WM, it takes less than 100MB of RAM. Avoid heavy apps like firefox and openoffice. You have abiword, gnucash and the likes. You'll need to search a bit for presentation tool and a browser.

I have seen people taking about a week to get used to DOS the first time they are introduced to it.

Like I said, a very subjective thing. Some make take fancy to it instantly, some may never come around.

The system needs to last, without the need of upgrades, for a few years. Meaning that it must not get obsoleted for the distro in too short a span of time. Unfortunately, I need to make "easy to use distro", read HEAVY, a "light distro", read HARD. I am hoping it won't be much difficult. I have done wierder things.

Mostly it's those DE's that bloat up, with WM's you should be pretty good to go.

I hope so. Linux administrators have not been known to be the dumbest of the lot.
[/quoute]
Well, I have heard stories on the contrary. It's a person specific thing.

Since OOo is a heavy app, I said running it in unitasking mode. Perhaps with a website or two open in browser but not anything more.

look for alternatives.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

A couple of recommendations. These are kids and parents that usually come for Exhibitions. You don't want to restrict children to just studies. You should show them that they could have fun on a Linux Based Machine. Probably a Win game on Wine or a native game on Linux . Remember don't make it a Arcade demo. Cause you will need a crowbar to pry the keyboard away from them .

All the stuff you mentioned is cool . Also try to include Google Earth Maybe , KStar and other educational software. You can refer to the Edubuntu distro for further choices. Also If you want to restrict he title to Indian Schools then add something to culturally link it to India because I don't see why it should be a distro for Indian Schools. Maybe include Language Packs and other Cultural stuff I guess.

Just my two cents.

Don't worry. I am going to include Compiz Fusion too. But the problem is that my current test machine is a Pentium D 3.06 GHz with 224MB RAM (remaining ram from 256 total to DirectX 9.0c capable onboard GPU, don't know name).

I guess I forgot google earth. instead of kstar, which is KDE based and hence heavy, I am including stelarium and clestina. The reason I added Indian schools is because I have visited several schools over the years of my schooling and I can say that many lack proper systems. So the main difference is that Indian Schools need a LIGHT OS, not something heavy. Infact, the systems I have seen are weaker than even MY OWN rig.

 

[FilledVoid]

Give CentOS a spin, with some usage WM

Im trying out Cent OS 5.2 in VM and I must say Im kind of impressed. Not to mention their torrents are like lightning fast.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

Then don't rush to show CLI and features, first make them aware of the basic stuff that they normally use.


Well arch, gentoo, crux, etc require too much configuration, so don't opt for them unless you're familiar with some advanced stuff.


A nice text editor + IDE. Just give it a dekko, you'll surely like it.


Give CentOS a spin, with some usage WM


Yes, but if you have one powerful machine, you can have a nice local wikipeida collection.


dosbox works on linux, it is open source.


More of less. The difference will be hardly noticable. I run ubuntu in VM, with fluxbox as WM, it takes less than 100MB of RAM. Avoid heavy apps like firefox and openoffice. You have abiword, gnucash and the likes. You'll need to search a bit for presentation tool and a browser.


Like I said, a very subjective thing. Some make take fancy to it instantly, some may never come around.


Mostly it's those DE's that bloat up, with WM's you should be pretty good to go.

I hope so. Linux administrators have not been known to be the dumbest of the lot.
[/quoute]
Well, I have heard stories on the contrary. It's a person specific thing.

look for alternatives.

Its going to be GUI based, but CLI apps are there to teach students stuff about how to use CLI mode. Its more educational than anything else.

I am familiar with configuring arch, so I guess I should have no issues with it.

CentOS ? I doubt it can run in the system I am planning. But I will try anyhow.

Local wikipedia OK, but articles ? I need to censor some and edit others to make it sutiable for Indian schools. I don't want to see complaints of kids searching about this that and xxx.

I know that about CLI, but still... the system does basic tasks well without cli and cli is only needed for advanced use which needs to be TAUGHT in the first place.

So shall I try Xfce on Arch ? I just installed it...

 

[infra_red_dude]

One word: PUDLinux Customize it the way you want. Its lightening fast. A very much tweaked Ubuntu.

After sometime you can intro them to Arch/Gentoo etc. if you feel so.

 

[MetalheadGautham]

One word: PUDLinux Customize it the way you want. Its lightening fast. A very much tweaked Ubuntu.

After sometime you can intro them to Arch/Gentoo etc. if you feel so.

Thanks for the suggestion. Ubuntu would be great since there are awssome Indian Repositories for it and it has a wide spread community support. A fast ubuntu will only make things a hell lot awssomer.

But the original objective is this:

I need to create distro, or atleast, for now, install it in a 40GB 5400RPM IDE HDD and ensure that it runs smoothly, and customise it to give it a professionalised schoolish flavour. I just eliminated Xfce from the list of propable DEs because its simply not easy enough to use without help (neither is icewm, but I am there na ? but I am an xfce n00b) .

Its supposed to showcase the role linux can play in Indian schools to accomplish the following tasks:

1. Prevent wastage of money on frequent upgrades at the same time keep students up to date with cutting edge technology

2. Save schools from the danger of being sued by MS for using pirated ms office, pirated windows and pirated encarta. Also save genuine paid software using schools from having to invest a lot of money in software upgrades every three years or so.

3. Prove that an OS which can be seen inside out if so desired can help students learn much more easily than otherwise, as in the case of windows

4. demonstrate the immunity linux has to viruses and the level of control administrators can have over the activities being performed by students

5. Show a demo of thin clienting with linux and the ease with which desktop linux users like users of this distro can easily adjust to thin clienting environments and the advantages of having one

6. Finally, the OS needs to be perfect for every single task the school needs to accomplish - run a server, office work, internet, virtual lessons, demonstrations, and at the same time be fool proof.

Its for this reason that I chose to install stuff in a HDD, customise everything, and use it as a demonstration tool from where my entire presentation is sourced. Besides, I am adding some masala into this presentation which would impress some skeptic people too.

 

[mehulved]

I am familiar with configuring arch, so I guess I should have no issues with it.

Are you familiar with network boot, configuration management and stuff? Cos they will be required to do a mass deployment, else you'll be spending a lot of time installing, configuring and keeping everything in sync.

CentOS ? I doubt it can run in the system I am planning. But I will try anyhow.

Give it a whirl then reply. It's not like fedora

Local wikipedia OK, but articles ? I need to censor some and edit others to make it sutiable for Indian schools. I don't want to see complaints of kids searching about this that and xxx.

Proxy it thorough squid or something, so that all the keywords are blocked.

So shall I try Xfce on Arch ? I just installed it...

Try it, but remember it's a altogether different game when you do a mass deployment as opposed to installing on 1-2 PC's at home. This is where the debians and red hats help. To start with most documents are geared towards them and they have huge knowledgeable community.

 

[drsubhadip]

there is BOSS LINUX for that same purpose ..
watch that

 

[MetalheadGautham]

What exactly are the issues associated with RPM in CentOS ? Give me a good talk about it. Then perhaps I can select it.

Does it get latest apps ? How light is it compared to Arch ? I am considering actually INSTALLING it on my system since its so mainstream and since I need something even more stable than Arch for both schools and for the future use of my home rig.

And one more thing: Temporarily for a presentation on saturday, on a Pentium D 3.06GHz machine with 256mb RAM, what OS shall I choose ? I am thinking of making a copy of my own HDD for immidiate use, since it will obviously work on that rig.

 

[infra_red_dude]

I need to create distro, or atleast, for now, install it in a 40GB 5400RPM IDE HDD and ensure that it runs smoothly, and customise it to give it a professionalised schoolish flavour.

It comes with LXDE and you can ditch OpenWM for metacity. Its still way faster than Xfce, yet nice

I just eliminated Xfce from the list of propable DEs because its simply not easy enough to use without help

WTF???? Dude.. are you paid to post funny answers here????

Arch is simple.. Xfce is not.. and blah blah..

 

[MetalheadGautham]

It comes with LXDE and you can ditch OpenWM for metacity. Its still way faster than Xfce, yet nice


WTF???? Dude.. are you paid to post funny answers here????

Arch is simple.. Xfce is not.. and blah blah..

LXDE ? Which distro are you talking about ? PUDLinux ?

And I don't mean to be funny. Its just that I keep getting pwned by Xfce whenever I use it.
I tried it on several distros, each time I get the same result.